First, a little history. My first game was Morrowind in 2002. It was, and remains, one of my favorite games of all times. I still have never done vampire clans or the temple, despite having owned the game for so long and playing it so much.

Morrowind, was truly an open game. Not having a starter dungeon made it all the more open. You never had to do anything in Morrowind, the world was completely and utterly open. Soon as you got off that boat, you were on your own. Only having vague directions to some place called Balmora and some guy named Caius Cosades, with little idea how to even get to Balmora. It took me awhile to even first get to Balmora. The world was wide open before you, an open world, with little idea what was going on, or what was even supposed to happen.

You could completely and utterly ignore the main quest with little consequence, it was not pushed on you whatsoever. You can easily sell your package for caius and get lost forever, there was no guide in morrowind.

The quests were fulfilling and fun. You had to have skills worthy of a position to be promoted to it.

Even with it's age, it is still the greatest.


Let's move onto Oblivion in 2006. The dungeons were bland, this is true enough. But the landscape was beautiful, and the game aged well. The quest were fulfilling. When you made Guild Leader, there was a real reward, and people recognized. It felt solid.



Now, Skyrim. The dungeons are great, shouts are cool, there are some new spells, and a new province, and it's generally fun.

Now we get to the cons which are the most numerous of all TES games I've played.

The game has become overly simplified, and to be frank, dumbed down to apply to the masses to make more money. The game was never really mainstream before Skyrim. Oblivion did well, but it wasn't halo mainstream.

You took Attributes, which is a killer. This hurts the game for me. Maybe I'm just being a bitter vet, but Attributes are a core of the game. This is an extreme dumbing down.

Next, perks. Perks are out of style of TES games, and yet they are introduced. They limit the usefulness of all skills and narrow your path quite a bit, no longer can you do everything as much as you want.

Birthsigns can be gotten from any stone at any time. No more one shot and that's it. At the same you time you limit people, you open more. Rather redundant.

When you complete a quest, it feels empty and not as rewarding.

When you become leader of a guild, it feels like nothing changed. Guards still talk to you like you're brand new.

Guilds are hollow now. There is no more series of earned promotions, you just go from apprentice to arch-mage, and that's it. They are all only a couple quests long.



Then you have the end battle with Alduin. How extremely anti-climatic and incredibly lame. Once again, nothing changes afterwords.



The only thing that really improved was dungeon design, and radiant quests are a plus, but they do not make up for lost content by a very, very, long shot.


Overall, Skyrim is fun, don't get me wrong. But there is a lot previous games did better. Maybe I'm just bitter, but take it as you will.

Heard it before.

Yeah, I'm the not the first to say it. Not a big fan of simplification.

Actually, I can explain all this easily.

The director of Morrowind was focused on this:



Todd said this about the main focus of Skyrim:



I prefer the former.

EDIT: The second paragraph regarding Morrowind is what Skyrim lacks greatly. The first paragraph is less important, but its worthy to note that Skyrim often tries to kite you in one direction or another. Not that you have to follow, but it encourages it somewhat.

Hear hear.

This is what is wrong with business these days.
On the one hand we have an honest explanation of intent.

On the other we have a soundbite.

Same with the games really.
One had substance, the other is mainly crunch.

What bothers me, more than anything, are the people that think Skyrim is the way an Elder Scrolls game is meant to be played. I hate the enchanting system, I hate the lack of attributes. I hate the lack of custom spell making, I hate the fact that swords and axes and warhammers are all considered the same "type" of weapon. I hate perks. There are a few things that Skyrim has gotten right. I like the fact that bows are a viable weapon again, I like the way smithing works now. But, all in all, it still feels like the series is getting worse and worse as it goes along. Not better. I think the next game will have about 5 skills you level up, two spells you can learn and three "factions." But, on the bright side, it will have much better graphics, and you can get a dog. Hooray.

And by the way, I still miss levitation and taunting people.

So how does going through an opening make the world not open. Once you exit and are sent off to Riverwood the game is wide open just like Morrowind. One of the worst arguements I have ever read on here. The perks add more character creation and distinction then Morrowinds system. Another really weak arguement by a nostalgia goggle wearing Morrowind lover.

Don't get me wrong I loved Morrowind too, but your arguments are biased. Morrowind wasn't complex at all. Crappy game mechanics don't mean complexity.

All true indeed. ES fan since Daggerfall, got Arena afterwards. But, for the most part, I think games,
not just Skyrim, are being dumbed down for a gaming audience which has a much lower attention span.
Look what happened to Dungeon Siege! DS III was pretty, but a striped down version of the way DS 1 and 2
were played. The same thing with Elder Scrolls. I keep getting knocked out of the immersion whenever someone
suggests something I've already done. I love playing it, since I'm an explorer at heart, but while the graphics are
a big improvement, everything else is a step back from previous games. Graphics, after all, do not a game make.

Love 'em all, despite their flaws. Now prepare for the descent of the fanbois.

Starkiller

EDIT: I rest my case.

I would not defend Morrowind's combat for a second, but there were far more faction quests. They were better quests, too. The OP is right about this.

Better quests? You obviously haven't play Morrowind in a long time. And I wasn't talking about Morrowind's combat.

I have to say, while it's fun, it leads you rather pushy. I do prefer the former as well.

It's a little late.

Old TES fans have been giving their 2 cents about the game as well as a history lesson since....well for a while now.

I don't see the point now.

I did not read your post either.

I haven't played Morrowind, so if that comparison is wrong... The quests in Oblivion were better than Skyrim's. Specifically the guild quests. I enjoyed those a lot.

There's no need to compare Skyrim to Morrowind to show that it's being dumped down. Compare it to Oblivion and it's obvious enough. And yes, what Todd said; I really feel like I'm playing a dungeon grinder. I didn't feel like that in Oblivion.

Ah, so the generic:

I played Morrowind first, it was the best thing ever.

Oblivion svcked, it too dumbed down.

Skyrim sux too, too dumbed down and isn't my Morrowind.

Seriously that's all you had to say, no need to ramble on about it. It's too generic now to post a wall of text about how MW re-invented the wheel, saved the gaming world in 2002, changed you're life etc. Just post "i'm a MW fan-boy" and be done with it.

I would have to agree with you ..... I found the Skyrim quests and their consequences extremely lacking ..... which is a shame since Skyrim is such a beautiful and intricate gameworld.

I am waiting for the CS so I can strip out as much of the game as I can so I can just explore.

Sadly once voice acting entered the mainstream it was all over for questing ..... some linear games make a good go of it like Deus Ex HR and Mass Effect, but when you look past the smoke and mirrors, even these games are very linear.

With the current technology and gaming climate is it simply not feasible to have voice acted quests in a open world game .... and this is what happens in Skyrim ... no quest, just a loosely strung semi-sequence of incredibly simple half done events. It is not really Bethesda at fault .... they are just giving the public what they want ... they want action and voice acting.

Deus Ex HR and Mass Effect 1 are/were truly incredible games as they had voice acting and they at least partially succeeded in transcending the above limitations. Too bad the devs of DX HR wimped out in the ending and will probably not be able to repeat their formula ever again. There will probably not be another ME1 for another 10 years and ME3 will almost certainly follow the mold of Skyrim.

Questing will return when voice acting becomes as cheap as text writing 5 years ago ........ which means there will be no voice actors involved and the character voices will be modeled like textures and meshes.

Until then I wouldn't waste much efforts pining for a game like Morrowind ....... that time is over until a team of less than 10 people can do all the modelling and text to voice acting for a game comparable to Morrowind .... probably 3 years for the technology and another 5 for the right group to get together.

Until then all we will get is pablum.

I agree with the OP all the way. I have exactly the same feelings after playing Morrowind then Oblivion and now Skyrim.

Good job not reading the post. They are all good, Oblivion was not really dumbed down on a massive level like Skyrim.

Like I said in the OP, they are all fun, but I dislike the simplification and hollowness that certain elements of Skyrim has.

Call of Duty is trash, by the way. That's getting off-topic however.

Maybe not quest design, but what I was doing at least felt important. Unlike in Skyrim, where everything is so rushed into you its hard to take seriously.

Plus, factions actually effected each other in Morrowind. We have The Stormcloaks and The Legion, other than that, zelch guild interaction.

Agreed 100%, OP.

It's just an honest review from someone who felt like sharing, in a similar manner to those numerous, big-name, reviewers like IGN, Gamespot, or Gamespy. Nobody is forcing you to read the post, but you just felt inclined to make a negative comment, because God forbid someone constructively assesses your beloved game. Heavens forbid if anyone so much as tarnishes the pristine coat of "epicness" that is Skyrim. Seeing as how there is no feedback forum dedicated for this sort of discussion, the general discussion forum is the appropriate place. Naturally, in your case, it's way to generic to actually post a constructive post about why he/she is wrong; because, it's so much easier to categorize and label the topic post and the OP, respectively, as an "MW fan-boy."

On topic and to the OP: Good post and I agree with a few of the points you made, namely factions. They're too shallow in Skyrim, in fact, I'd venture to say Oblivion's factions were a step above Skyrim's factions. They relied to heavily on the radiant quest system for factions, and it shows.

All you had to post was, "I hate on people for not sharing my opinions" and be done with it.

I agree, i made a very specialized magethat only uses three schools of magic, and now that i mastered those three schools 9restoration, destruction and alteration ), i am experimenting with conjuration, illusion, and enchanting. Oblivion was better my ass.

When next Elder Scrolls game is coming out, we hear exactly same thing, but about Skyrim. :rolleyes:

I agree with the OP.

No. In comparison with Oblivion, there is little to nothing in term of rewards for making guild leader.