http://www.tamriel-rebuilt.org/?p=conceptart§ion=15263

If only because it looks so much better than another boring human race.

That never worked.

I don't see why it's out of the realm of possibility for there to have been something that resembled a Snake, and so writers took it and ran with it to up-play an individual's courage for ever having fought them, or using the fear generated at the idea of "immortal.vampire.snakemen" in order to act as control.

Take everything "Extravagent" and overly "fantastic" you find in writings with a grain of salt, and assume someone has an agenda for writing it.

Isn't it funny how St. George turned an alligator into a fire spewing dragon? Dare I say "immortal.vampire.dragon"?

Good comrade, you've missed the point entirely.

And with that:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-gmABsTi1-k&feature=related

Alligators are boring. Dragons are not.

I swear you folks are forgetting the genera.

now now guys, cant they be Asian-esque.Samuri.Immortal.Vampire.Snake-men?

You've done it now. Expect geek banter.

Funny, when I want over the top ridiculous levels of fantasy, I play Neverwinter Nights. When I want practical and very humble fantasy with misinterpretations of lore and fascinating inter-cultural dilemmas, I play Elder Scrolls.

Super Evil Immortal Dragon Gods have their places, in lesser games. I for one am playing Elder Scrolls, not Dungeon Siege.

The page isn't blank. You're not paying attention:

Akavir: The Soldier and the Serpent -- that's the title.
by Adanorcil -- that's the author.
Immortal. Vampire. Snakemen. -- that's the article.

http://64.233.169.104/search?q=cache:4-2czo5OrWcJ:www.imperial-library.info/fsg/adanorcilarticle2.shtml+http://www.imperial-library.info/fsg/adanorcilarticle2.shtml

What are you talking about? Elders scrolls has
Giant fleas
Lizard men who worship sentient trees
catmen whos very lively hood resides on a drug
men of the north who can literally yell down walls
Brown western people who can detonate islands with a skill using swords
Cannabalistic tree hugging elves
Magic perverting Golden elves
Demon worshipping elves of ash
Orcs intergrated into society
countless plains of existence where beings of all shaps and sizes reside
The very planet you play on is in fact a culmination of other planets destroyed in a war of the gods
people and gods alike screaming to attain a fallen gods heart in the center of a mega volcano in which at one point in hisotry covered most of tamriel in a cloud of ash
An entire people wiped from the face of the known world with little explanation


My friend there is nothing subtle about the elderscrolls series its the writers and how its protrayed which is so well done.

immortal vampire snakemen...so be it. after reading through all of the dev out-of-game convolutions to lore on the topic, they can convolute and retcon to their desire, but it's the games that are suffering with the lack of good in-game lore.

Hm, nothing subtle in Elder Scrolls. That's a new one.

Alduin you mean?



There is no argument over taste. Though you should realize that you are doing the misinterpretation to create a world that matches your expectations and you try to explain away all the things that contradict your desired view by negating them as myth, metaphor or incomplete.

I don't care that you do this, everybody has his own favorite delusion, but it isn't an argument about the appearance of the Tsaesci. Because you start of with the assumption that the Tseasci are not Immortal Vampire Snakeman, it is an explanation for your view of the Tsaesci.

So right now, I won't suggest that you look into the Monomyth or the Songs of Pelinal or anything in the Obscure Text section at the Imperial Library. I won't even suggest that you measure the size of the Anumidium or read how the Ministery of Truth stays airborne.

You won't enjoy any of that but try to understand that we do and that your preferences for Humanoid Tsaesci comes off a little strange to the people who like playing Khajiit and Argonians or even Altmer and Bretons, or Nords for that matter.

I'm from the fortunate caste of people who don't care either way. I have a preference, but I'll deal whatever's dealt. Though I can't help but laugh at those who have such a stake in having their own Garggle Blothmonsters and Demonic Super Errtus that it becomes such an issue of passion.

It's not an issue of passion, good sir, it's just that -- as the original intention of the devs seems to indicate -- you're wrong.

And besides, since at least half of the unique, flavorful parts of TES fiction involve the world's metaphysical fetish for myth and mythmaking and abstract concepts that bastardize real-world philosophies, I hardly think that denying they exist is an acceptable, subjective suspension of disbelief.

But then, what do I know? I'm just a name on a video game forum, not a real person.

Then you should certainly read up on the Monomyth and everything else that has been suggested. If not for your own enjoyment of a pleasant surprice on the absence of Garggle Blothmonsters, then to make sure you are not talking out of your ass.

I haven't rightly made any claims, save for the fact that my own personal enjoyment would see an exaggeration in local lore, than to see giant "OMGWTFVAMPIRES" dancing around. It's a matter of taste.

It's difficult to accuse someone of being wrong for asking the theoretical question "Is it possible, as is the case throughout this game, that some of the writings we find are exaggerated"?

But then, of course, what do I know, I'm the one foolish enough to accuse people of passionately taking up the defense of this position enough to insult other posters of being passionate.

Well in that case I would urge you to read the Tsaesci creation Myth, it should dispel the idea that the Tsaesci as Imortal-Vampire-Snakeman are merely OMGWTFVAMPIRES. You'd have to consult Count Hassildor for that.

I prefer, "It is very possible, as is the case throughout this magical world, that some of the exaggerated claims made about some subjects pale in comparison to the Monkey Truth. ZOMGWTFGIANTFEATHEREDFLUTYRANTS."

It's all a matter of preferences and ultimately whatever pans out.

If they turn out to be myths, the lore will have been stronger for it.

If they turn out to be truths, well you've sacrificed a bit of lore, but at least you have "interesting" monsters to fight I suppose.

How many games does Crysis have to make before you can sell them on the jungle/swamp pitch?



Don't fool yourself.

TES1: Gather all parts of the Magical McGuffin to kill Jafar, the scheming Grand Vizier who usurped the throne. (Oops, he was called Jagar, not Jafar. Sorry.)
TES2: In a world of nudity and crude jokes, reactivate a giant stompy robot that will destroy space-time cohesion in the whole region.
TESA: As a hero with a tragic past, rescue your lost sister by killing a dragon and leading a rag-tag band of rebels in a fight against a despotic governor.
TESL: In an alternate dimension that has been created as a boot camp for magical soldiers, battle fiends and kick a demon prince's shiny red butts.
TES3: As the Chosen One of the Prophecy, reveal yourself as the reincarnation of a national hero and go out killing gods.
TES4: The gates of Hell have opened and demons are popping out everywhere, dramatically lowering property value. Like an UAC Space Marine, single-handedly defeat the extraplanar invasion. Also, reveal yourself as the reincarnation of a national hero, and as a god.

Yeah, TES is subtle, low-fantasy adventure.

:rofl: - misleading title, supposed content appears to be precis - and a precis is not generally a story or an article - but more in the nature of comment, ... I took that 'content' to be a working note = poor description. I prefer his posts on this forum usually.

Maybe it's just that people get a mite overenthusiasic in the way they go about saying immortal vampire snakemen that makes it hard to take? And the fact that those that believe they have the power of the gods (known as Dev's in another continuum) behind them, get a tiny bit cocky over this one.

? Tes is a mixture that includes unsubtle stuff as well as more subtle stuff <\ But everone likes Easter Eggs - unless peple throw them at them?

We already have Argonian lizard men and Khajiit catmen. So I am happy that Tsaesci are snakemen. If you want you might imagine them as snakes with oriental features, or oriental men with snake faces, but the concept art I have seen in various places that blends the two is generally far more satisfying. Did you like the artwork in that link?

There might be another race on that continent or on yet another continent that is more oriental for all I know so I won't tell you to give up on that one as the fat lady has not sung. That does not matter for now though - 'what is' , is - unless there is a DragonBreak.

If you say that you don't like 'what is' that's fine by me - you're entitled to express your own taste - far as I know - and what you have to say counts. So if say that you would prefer them to be done differently then that's real too. But given all the stuff to date I suspect that unless the devs change their minds you are stuck with Tsaesci that are man/snake/vampires and even if there was no proto-lore about their self-enhancement, just being vampires would still put them in the ranks of the immortal.

The monkey-video sort of says that in fantasy sometimes it is how well it is done as much as what it is that is important. And hey, different cultures have a different approach to presenting their mythologies and fantasies. It's also bloody effective even if you don't like that sort of thing, right?

Only if the men and the Tsaesci are apples and the mer and Ka Po' Tun are oranges.

It's metaphysics - kinda. You see, Ka Po' Tun are (play the same role as) elves because they share the same "mindset". Elves, or more specifically Altmer, is trying to breed themselves back into Aldmer, and their "god selves". As you may or may not know, Altmer belives they descended from the gods, and is actively seeking to reshape themselves back into their ancestors. Ideas on how this could be done has differed greatly - The Dwemer tried it, Mancar Camoran had his own thoughts on it, and then there's the Altmer mainstream theory, of course.

Now, how does this relate to the tiger-people? From http://www.imperial-library.info/mwbooks/mysterious_akavir.shtml:

Firstly, "dragons" is a common paraphrase for gods.
Secondly, the "great war" is referring to the war between Lorkhan and the Aedra - a war in which the "elves" sided with their gods and the "humans" with Lorkhan. This was fought all over the world. When it was over, many "gods" (Ada or Aedra) had died, and become "Earthbones" (and, according to Altmer myth, Aldmeri elves as well).
Since then, the Ka Po' Tun have tried to become dragons - gods - again, just like the altmer. They share the same role in the "metaphysical play", just featured in two different productions.

That is also why the Tsaesci are so commonly referred to as "men", or as having been men, or as having eaten men - they also share the same roles. Even so, they are Immortal Vampire Snakemen, and not anymore human than the cat-people are elven. They're the same, but different, the same way Hamlet wouldn't be depicted exactly the same in two different theatres.

When it comes to something akin to arguing the point of subtlety, you either recognize it, or you don't. It's not something worth debating into the point of minutia.

I recognize, however, your right to be wrong in the regard of the subtlety and restraint held in most of Elder Scrolls lore.

All the same, I will continue to chortle to myself at the hostility shown by the "immortal.vampire.snakemen" crowd at anyone who suggests an impediment to what appears to be the sole thing determining their fun.