Yes this sound's CRAZY, I actually cant believe im writing this myself but do you think its possible? First of all tullius is showed to be a skilled Swordsmen during the battle of windhelm, he also is shown to be a military genius during the game, as he turns a near defeat into a stalemate prior to the game, Yes i know this sounds "odd" but awhile back somone made a thread about Ulfric being a avatar of Talos, and yes these points are VERY general, so do you think this is possible or not?
Edit: Also the way he treats his men is very familiarly to how tiber septim treated his men.

Yeah, people have brought this up before, and it works for both Tullius and Ulfric Stormcloak. Talos Stormcrown, in essence. I don't think they're avatars. But I do think that the naming similarities are important. And its important to consider the Arcturian Heresy when thinking about this too, as something similar may be afoot between Ulfric, Tullius, and Dovahkiin.

Yes. Ulfric, Tullius and the Dragonborn is, singular, an avatar of Talos. Ulfirc, the rebel, Tullius, the general (ruling king), and the Dragonborn, who is... the Dragonborn. Hjalti/Wulfarth/Arctus. Ulfric/Tullius/Dragonborn. So go shiv him and get some godding going.

Well at least I think so.

Wow, you might be right, that is cool, so maybe the three symbolically represent Talos!

I think if anybody's theory is true, it's probably Tengen's. However, I like the idea of them both being Talos (in the same direct kind of way that Wulf was Talos). Perhaps he was so torn as to what the right course of action was, he split himself into two opposing avatars?

Why would Arctus be related to the Dragonborn, wouldn't Hjalti be more suitable to that spot?

As for the topic itself, my view on it is that Tullius and Ulfric are merely mirroring the image of Talos/Tiber Septim the General and Emperor. If I were to take charge of an army of rebel Nords I'd probably try to model myself as one of the most successful general's in history and the same goes for Tullius being in charge of both Nords and Imperials who fight to preserve the Empire.

It's how they're going to write Dovakhiin out of the story, and reconcile the civil war. All three will become the new Talos to replace the one that the Thalmor have been strangling off, and we'll have another Miracle of Peace in the land of the Nords.

I really doubt Talos split himself in half and created two avatars. This also comes from the fact that Wulf was not known by anybody not even seen where as Ulfric and Tullius have both had lives before this moment. Both had made friends and had joined causes up until the civil war. It's also very unlikely to me at least, that a real avatar of a god could ever be tortured into helping the Thalmor.

They do both resemble aspects of Talos however, but then again so do plenty of other people and I'm not really happy with just assuming a possible mantling going on here.

Yes. Mantling and avatar(ing?) are being mixed.

I'm not much of a lore-guru, but only future will tell was Talos mantled, or not. Changes are that mantling did happen as there are two different events which will end up in written history and nobody can't tell what really happened (=pretty much like Daggerfall).

I just want to make one thing clear: while Tullius, Ulfric, and Dovah may end up mantling Talos, they most certainly are not avatars of his. The first two have their own definite histories and childhoods - they're not just flesh-forms made so a god could walk upon the earth. The Dovahkiin had his own unique power and destiny before he could have possibly started walking like a god. There are a few ways in TES that the mortal / god line can get blurred, but each of those ways has its own distinct features.

No, not Talos.

Something worse.

Talos 2: CHIM-el adabaloo

Note that Talos is a combination of a Dragonborn, Shezzarine, and whatever Zurin Arctus is, him being associated with Magnus enough to have that mentioned in Varieties of Faith in the Empire. The three cornerstones. It would be more likely that new allies encountered through DLC would fulfil that role, cause Ulfric and Tulius don't seem Magnetic or Shoronic to me, while the Dragonborn is relatively Akatronic.

Avatars can have histories. These are historic times. They're both Dragonborn, their exploits will be attributed to one person.

Hats off to newbodys, who do their readn.

Nope. Neither Tullius nor Ulfric are dragonborn (only the PC has that honor) and avatars (like, say, Wulf) fairly clearly aren't real people with parents and whatnot.

The enantiomorph is rebel/king/observer. Dragonborn and Shezzarine are the rebel and the king, swapping roles as they murder each other in a cycle going back to Aka and Lorkhan.

It should be noted that no matter what happens, one of these three kills another of these three while the third watches.

Wow, this just struck a chord in me. In Skyrim, whether you side with the rebel or side with the king, you are the killer. So in an insane way, the observer is actually the killer. While the rebel, or the king, watches.
Malacath's ass that's good.

Though you can deny the role of killing them, which results in Ulfric or Tullius doing it.

Well it was Trinimac who ripped out Lorkhan's heart not Akatosh.

Avatars have personal narratives. They can be incarnate, as well.

An immortal hero, warrior, sorceror, and king variously known as Pelinal Whitestrake, Harrald Hairy Breeks, Ysmir, Hans the Fox, etc., wanders Tamriel, gathering armies, conquering lands, ruling, then abandoning his kingdoms to wander again. Just like the Divine Crusader, Ulfric, Tullius, and Dragonborn. They're one person. Keep in mind, the being playing these roles lives outside history. He can be any number of people at once. It's all at once, anyway. Time is coeval.

My theory 1.2, Talos did not yet have CHIM but was part of a chain of gods that would eventually obtain it, starting with Lorkhan.

Dragonborn kills Ulfric/Tullius while Tullius/Ulfric watched. Woot. Which is exactly why I had assumed that the entire civil war questline was you, Ulfric and TRullius collectively mantling the thirds of Talos.

No, Tullius is just a man. A competent general in Mede's legions though not so skilled as to have brought a swift end to the civil war.

As it stands, if the main Dark Brotherhood endgame holds true, the assassination of the last Mede Emperor happened on his watch, just outside Solitude.

If the politics in Cyrod are half as volatile as suggested, then the Elder Council will hold him responsible for losing custody of Ulfric Stormcloak at Helgen, his inability to crush the rebellion right away, and the death of the emperor.

Even if he won the civil war, fate will not be kind to him. He's probably looking at Imperial execution, exile, or perhaps a knife in the back.

Cuhlecain died on Talos' 'watch'.

Are you sure? Most would plame the Penitus Oculatus, not Tullius. And the politics in Cyrod would suggest that Mede's death would be welcomed. The dude that ordered his assassination was an Elder Council member, and claims that others were of the same mindset.

Hadvar also implies that Tullius had only arriveed in Skyrim fairly recently, so I'd give Tullius a bit more credit considering what he has accomplished.

And aren't you forgetting who else was a very competent general?

Pelenial is an unborn robot avatar. Ulfric and Tullius were born of woman. It's a semantic issue. When a god becomes a man, that man is called an Avatar. When a man becomes a god (as Ulfric/Tullius may end up doing) that's called mantling. Yes, this is totally just hair-splitting, but hairs need to be split to keep conversation clear.

And yeah, regarding the part I emphasized, of course every one thing is just the everything is nothing is I, but there's a reason we keep using distinct proper nouns in this forum even though Vivec is everyone and has been for a while. There are layers to the lore, and while on one layer you have this hyper-meta-mystical unitive stuff, on the next layer down (the layer of gods and myths) distinct roles and archetypes emerge, and distinct labels are required. Yet one layer further down (the layer this thread is about - the intersection of gods and men) distinct labels and even personal identities are required.