Let me preface by saying that in order for a tempo to exist, one must play two notes. Even if the notes are separated by gulfs of time, the second note will bring about a temp.

Without two fixed points, time cannot exist, therefore if the Towers should fall, time would cease to exist. If one was to accept a 1:1 correspondence between time and space, all of everything in the Mundus would also cease.

That being said, Nirn came about upon the ordering of Red-Tower, as Ada-Mantia could not singularly hold time and space on its shoulders without Divine aid. This was the beginning, but just as a song, at least not an interesting one, cannot exist with just a tempo created by the space between two notes, keys, chords, and progressions of the two must also exist. In this sense, more towers were also constructed.

If an important note was to be omitted, some measure of the song would be lost, yes? Therefore, one may argue that with the destruction of a Tower, some measure of time, that is, time and space/ the scope of Mundane Reality would also be lost or at least changed significantly.

Of course, an added note, let's say a poorly formed and particularly off-key note may also cause some manner of loss/change within a song. If one were to introduce a Tower improperly, I'd argue a significant measure of reality would change. Creation and destruction are, of course, closely related.

What then would be the worst thing one could do to a song? To simply stop playing it would mean nothing in the long run, as it could just as easily be commenced anew. If one were to kill the performer or even worse, kill the composer and burn the music, there would be nothing tangible left.

After reading Nu-Hatta yet again, I think I finally realize the dangers of White-Gold. It represents the whole of Aurbis within the scope of a single plane(t); the whole being contained wtithin the part.

It is of course, a wheel, modelling the Wheel. If one were to turn the Wheel, the entirety of Creation and Destruction would follow suit, but such an act is impossible by primary action.

A gear or a spool turning a larger object is not impossible though. If one could turn White-Gold, wouldn't Aetherius move, if not by just a small bit? Reversal, Nu-Hatta calls it, discreation.

There is energy that flows around Nirn. It's the energy created by its very existance. When it turns, energy winds around it like a spool winding thread. If someone were exert enough force in the opposite through a smaller spool, a smaller wheel, the energy could be unwound and harnessed in small amounts, but even a small amount of this energy coul fuel impossible things. Even worse, the displacement of energy would naturally be felt in the greater part of the Aurbis. I don't believe it could possibly undo everything, but it could easily unmake Tamriel and Nirn as well, if the energy were to become permanently desyncronized.

Before I give my thoughts, why music?

Would the manipulation of White Gold, and thereby an altering of the music, be the threat of the Infernal City? E.g. a profound altering of the music. Could the City manipulate, jar, or alter the Wheel?

So the universe collapses if the city takes a catapult hit in the wrong spot? Yay.

At this point all transcription becomes impossible, except by way of sheet music, an orchestration of which was attempted during the reign of [NUMINIT], who, along with everyone else in the symphony's radial madness, was vaporized by adjacentia. The requisite adachimelic holding-tendrils activated, preventing Imperial collapse.


Or the Dragon forgets to laugh.

We don't ask her.

Music is time, manifest. Two notes = Time. A song proves the non-uniformity of time; that is, it shows that time can move at different speeds. Likewise, time in the Mundus, and Nirn itself only began when the second Tower was built. Once time was established, Akatosh could leave.


Manipulating White-Gold would allow someone to change existence. The Marukhati channeled Aurbis through a echo/reflection of Ada-Mantia. They caused a Dragon Break through a Tower that only temporarily existed. If someone was to attempt the same thing with the Imperial City, the effects would make the Dragon Break look like nothing.

I think that's what Dagon was trying to accomplish in the end, with his invasion of Nirn. Other than the obvious reasons for invading the capital of Cyrodiil, I think he was personally planning on turning the Wheel.

The Ayleids made White-Gold, which was purposefully constructed in the shape of a while right in the center of Tamriel, to break the wheel. Meaning, it's a wheel within the Wheel to break the Wheel.
They apparently had the wrong idea. It's probably no coincidence the Ayleid collapse was allowed to happen (so that the wheel is preserved). Or that of the Dwemer, who also seemed to have had a wrong idea. If the Wheel is a cog in a machine (a machine that is a Crowned Tower), turning it back or breaking it isn't going to make the machine very productive; I mean, if you're going to do that, you should at least realize what the machine is/is for... but at that point, it wouldn't matter anyway.

From what I've seen, the Ayleids' fatal mistake was trying to achieve their ends through making pacts with Daedric Princes, something that didn't sit well with the other, Aedra-worshiping Ayleids.

Edit: As for the Dwemer, they partially succeeded, becoming a god, but for whatever reason, the Heart was never placed in Numidium and they remained a lifeless golem.

The key with Numidium is that they used Dead-Lorkhan to create their new god. As we've seen with the Marukhati, it's not the brightest idea to use bits of a god to create something new. The Marukhati should have taken a lesson from the Dwemer, but it's not like they knew what happened to them. Even Nerevar and Vivec couldn't say for certain.

Discreation? No. Discreation was deceiving the Godhead into owing no thought to you. This certainly hasn't happened Aurbis-wide.


Is it? Would not the hub agree, in fact, it is he who wills Life and Death to all within the Wheel? There is one, who within himself was the cycle and the domain of Mundus.

I'm going to be straight and say that I don't understand what you're going for. Owing no thought to me, as in we? Is that a comment on free will, the ability of the mind to imagine itself, or something completely different?

Discreation is the opposite of creation. Surely you understand that. There's nothing complicated I'm trying to evoke there.

As for life and death, those are mere variables, life itself is so meaningless when compared to the whole of cosmic design or design-through-chaos.

Imagine if a finger suddenly held dominion over the entire body or if the body became the appendage. That is the point I'm trying to make. Turning the Wheel using White-Gold, the wheel within the Wheel. The microcosm dictating the cosmos; an ultimate paradox.

The method of which would be the potential energy that's been building up around Nirn. Look up Zero Point Inertial Frame-Dragging.

Owing no thought to the many: As a rule, we change our minds a lot, ... It's intrinsic to our nature; to live in the North is to live with a mind that dances near the hearth lest it slow like old Herkel's lot. (That's what happened to the Dwarves, by the way: their minds froze to death by thinking one thing over and over until poof, gone in a belch of a mountain.) The Godhead no longer thought of the disparate faces of the Dwemer. Rather, like a wind-chime synthesizes tones for the ear to hear one, God could only think of one Dwemeri, Prime Gestalt. Discreation is opposite the whole cycle. Life and Death are the cycle. Call it Creation and Destruction, if that's your preference. Point being, it's the dichotomy inherent within existence.


The hub turns the Wheel. You said no primary force turns the Wheel, but you neglect the structure of a wheel from the start. It is turned by the center. Mundus, and the one to whom this realm belongs, is the center. The center is the one who turns and dictates the cosmos. Yes. It's been said before, in far fewer words. In other words, it was a focus point for (re-)reaching the divine; or What happens when one reverses an inversion; moreso, does so in the living day? I guess I'm waiting for is the big revelation.

Stolen from another Monomyth:
In the case of our schizophrenic visionary, however, the role of the mad, terribly suffering god at the summit of the universe was felt to be too much for him to assume. ... That perhaps would be the ultimate test of the perfection of one's compassion: to be able to affirm this world, just as it is, without reservation, while bearing all its terrible joy with rapture in oneself, and thereby madly willing it to all beings! - Myths to Live By

I'm going to be straight and say I don't understand why you needed to scatter recycled Nu-Hatta in a physics lesson, but that's fine. Maybe I'm stewpid.

The theory of Godhead, like most metaphysical and theosophical things in TES, holds its roots in actual philosophy and theology. A Godhead refers to a multiple-in-one entity, with each part acting independently and separate from each other. How exactly are you imagining Godhead to act in TES? What you are describing is Demiurge, not Godhead. This is also the second time you've mentioned Prime Gestalt without actually explaining what the Prime Gestalt is in this situation. The gestalt, psychologically speaking for the Dwemer was the down-casting of all god-entities, Divine, Daedric, spiritual, and ascendant to be replaced by esoteric gods of logic and reason. By the theory of Gestalt psychology, the whole of Dwemer society would be the extensions, translations, and reorganizations of their prime philosophy, that is that tangible gods such as the Daedra, Aedra, and Tribunal are not gods at all but simply higher forms of being. Furthermore, when you describe Gestalt, you seem more to be describing Platonic forms, as a method behind the corporeal, visible world. Gestalt is only a theory of understanding perceived totality and the reorganization of such.

And Discreation is not destruction. Destruction is creation. When one thing is destroyed something else is born. To nullify creation is to destroy the cycle. If a small patch of forest survived through animals dying, being decomposed, and turned into nutrients from which plants grew for the animals to eat, I could go outside the cycle and nullify creation by removing the pieces necessary. I could remove the animals so none would die to enrich the soil. I could build a structure over the trees and around the patch of forest to prevent rain from reaching the soil, and eventually the trees would die, the soil would go barren, and the organisms that decomposed dead matter would starve and die too. This is neither creation nor destruction, as it goes beyond the cycle.


What I meant to say was that no primary force by the actions of Mundane mortals turns the Wheel. Like the whole of Aurbis, the energy coursing around Nirn as the Wheel turns can be focused. It's been done before.


I'm not restating or recycling Nu-Hatta for the sole purpose of reiteration. I'm using Nu-Hatta and physics to describe the elementary methods and physics of a Dragon Break. The entire point of this thread was to create a universal theory behind Towers, Time/Space, Mundane Existence, and Dragon Breaks. Time and music share too much in common to be ignored on a metaphysical level, and I have not once seen anyone on these forums compare Towers to notes, in that you need two of them for Time/tempo to exist.
THAT is not in Nu-Hatta. The methodology connecting creation/destruction of Towers is heavily discussed but only in terms of this logic:

Jump off Tower/manipulate Tower -> [missing logic] -> Dragon Break

(aka Step 1: Collect underpants. Step 2: ??? Step 3: Profit!)

Furthermore, I posit that creating a Tower can disrupt/change time just as much as removing one; something else that's absent in Nu-Hatta.