Love the idea of Engineers in shooters..

However only one game seems to have got them right.

Team Fortress

And many others have gotten them so so wrong.

In Team Fortress Classic two engineer's turrets could stop a team for half an hour making every other class work harder to take them out, Snipers shooting from out of range, Spies using their abilities to get behing them, Demomen having to open alternative paths..
The turrets in Team Fortress could do serious damage, rotate 360' and actually track people to fire at them..

Brink's turrets are letting me down a little, and dont get me wrong i love the game but the engineer's turrets are usless.. KILLZONE also had terrible turrets so im not just picking on Brink.

Brink's described as a "Fast - paced action" shooter which "dynamically" lets you go wherever you want.. so why is it the turrets rotate only 45' and rotate slower than walking speed, i know the ability says "Once it acqures a target it rotates 360'" but thats no good if it only scans 45' directly infront of it.
As long as your not facing a turret head on a quick slide and a grenade takes out or avoids most turrets, and if your lucky enough to come up behind one operative or not, you can walk upto it, write your name on it and then melee it to death, surely they should be able to turn around ?

IF your lucky enough for your turret to actually kill someone i guarantee it didnt to it without taking damage, and again im uspet that im forced to look at my smoking turret and im not allowed to repair it untill its actually almost so dead they can sneeze on it and kill it before im allowed to fix it up.
Team Fortress allowed you to repair the turret as soon as it was damaged and even made it more difficult by giving the turrets a limited ammo supply.

Im not saying the turrets in Brink should be made to be EXACTLY like the ones in Team Fortress im just saying seeing what a stationary turret can do in one game youd think itd do the same in others

I play as an engineer in both TF2 & Brink and I prefer limited tracking as it makes multiple turret placement and team effort more important for the defence. When you take into concideration the time limits imposed in brink then having a 30 min stand off with upgraded turrets just wouldn't work.

The idea is a temporary set back for the offencive team not a full on seige. Although well placed mines & turrets and regular repairs via teamwork can fortify an objective quite well.

"Like" x20

The turrets in this game are actually one of the few things I think Splash Damage got right. They don't need to be nearly indestructible death cannons that lock-on in a heartbeat. The turrets in games like TF2 and MNC's Firebase are cheap as **** and really speak highly of the player camping behind them.

Fair enough, i agree but.. do you not think the health / damage of the turrets in Brink are a little pathetic ?

They are slightly weak yes.

However I would say they are pretty balanced in relation to the gameplay. They are a support weapon and not a primary.

The problem with your argument is that in TF2, the turret is the Engineers primary weapon. In BRINK it is a support tool that is meant to SUPPORT. It is not meant to kill. The engineer is for defending, and from what I remember, defending is when you stand around an objective, and make sure no one gets to it. The turrets help to weaken enemies that you can't get to at the current time, so you can clean them up.

Bang on

If you play engineer your job is to hold a position and use the tools at your disposal to hold back the enemy for as long as you can whilst buffing your team. Expect to die as often as a un-named star trek away team member.

An offensive turret is controlled by an Operative.

I've never saw someone in-game actually use that ability. Is it worth unlocking?

Yes

Not sure what an Op would have to sacrifice for the ability would it outweigh other abilities? I guess its more useful than caltrops.

I wouldn't go that far but it's still fun.

Turrets in Brink are very, very poor and give very little return for the effort of deploying them. Currently, they are effective only as ambush weapons, as they're so easily taken out.

Their target-acquisition speed, damage and durability all need to be buffed - heavily.

A turret in a FPS should be a defence and area/route denial weapon and their removal should require a determined, concerted effort, not a few casually-lobbed grenades and some small arms fire. Approaching them head-on should be fatal, end-of-chat. Currently it's ' Meh, Turret', it should be 'TURRET! OMFG! Find Cover! Aaaaargh!'.

That said, their assembly should take longer than it currently does and some of the maps would need tweaking - in the current version of Container City, two of the kind of turrets I'd like to see would stop the Security from getting off the beach! :whistling:

Turrets shouldn't be maxi-kill items (and for game balance and fairness, perhaps only one per team at a time, or maybe 2 engineers should be required to make one?), but if well-placed they should deny an area or route to small numbers of the enemy or lone-wolfers - that's what they're for. Currently, I don't even break step when dealing with them, and they only cause real damage if I'm static or haven't seen them - they should have me back-pedalling, warning my team via VOIP, and trying to find another route.

For good turrets, see TF2 (or the Director's Cut of Aliens *nerdgasm!*).

I use it a lot when I'm playing with a friend of mine, who mainly plays the Engineer.

Enemies do not suspect a turret to be an actual threat, so they usually ignore it. Which allows me to weaken - and occasionally kill - them with ease.
Also, even if they destroy the turret, they do not suspect me to know where they are and come for them in an instant.

Maybe so but in a game where time limits are constant threat a turret should only be a temp defence method unless well maintained. I find a soldier and engineer together can hold back multiple waves for around 10 mins if done well.

Also when the fight & objectives are constantly moving it would be overkill to have TF2 style turrets.

Are you kidding me!?! caltrops are SOOO useful. Throwing those in a chokepoint will diminish the enemies health but no less than half, if they walk from one end to the other.

I think the turrets in this game are just fine. They don't need to be death machines all on their own, although their scanning speed i believe can be increased a little bit at least. Their support weapons as previously stated, and they are simply there to set back the opposing team. They cost time, ammo, focus and supplies to destroy, and in brink that can be harsh on the other team. I

Aah, a good point.

Perhaps then:

Heavy buff to turret damage and durability, but:

Needs 2 engineers to build
Requires buffing every 5 minutes or it's power fails/it fails/explodes.

Hmmm...that would work.

I reckon they're fine tbh, they can take humans by surprise a lot. Engineers already have a lot going for them, they shouldn't be able to hold off whole teams without even being there.

They're only useless against bots, whose spidey-senses seem to single the instant there's a turret in range, and who have the uncanny ability to throw grenades with pin-point accuracy from a mile away to disable them instantaneously.

No flame and no disrespect, but are you playing the same game as me? ONE mag from a Euston, from a soldier who doesn't even feel it because he can self-buff = no more turret. And an acquisition speed that means you can often cross the room they're guarding before they get a shot off? As I stated earlier, they don't slow me down at all, and I believe they should.

They're weak, slow to acquire a target and waaaaaaaaaaaaay too easy to avoid. In their current guise, they should be pink and decorated with flowers. :facepalm:

TF and TF2 are straight up "deuling" games where both teams have the same objective against each other. Setting up serious defenses thus makes sense.

Brink is an offense v defense game, if you give turrets a serious defensive edge that requires major effort to remove them then everybody on the defending team plays as an engineer (something that happens a lot anyways) and the attacking team gets royally screwed.

Thus turtling.

Now imagine Shipyard. You're Security, and have to hack the missle.

Sentries everywhere. You're instantly incapped if you so much as look near a sentry, and if you're revived, you die in a split second.

TFC's Sentries had a hard counter of grenade spam, particularly MIRV and EMP grenades. TF2 gets Ubercharges. BRINK doesn't give you an I WIN button.

Well if you took the time to shoot that one or 2 clips into it, then it did slow you down. And if the gunshots didn't reveal your position due to silencer then the engineer will surely notice his turret taking damage and investigate. If the soldier self-buffs, then he can't throw as many grenades right away or give team mates as much ammo. And to be fair to the turrets, some people place them in incredible dumb locations, such as ones where the slim 45 degree of scanning if partially blocked.

I cant really comment on MNC, but I always thought countering sentry guns in TF2 was pretty straight forward :huh: