Maybe I'm just stupid... but I'm finding it almost impossible to figure out Caravan. The holotape you're given by Ringo early in the game seems self-explantory, but once I get in the game, I just kind of find it hard to get along.

After betting, it takes you to the game table and you're asked to discard or lay down a card. If I lay down a card, and go on the to next turn, that's pretty much it. The end. The rest of the "game" (i.e, before it even gets started) is spent with me discarding the rest of my entire deck, because the game doesn't give me an option to do anything else.

Am I bugged, or just not getting how to play?

This has held true across all of my start games.

Are there any videos yet or a mod that actually walks you through a demo-game?

What system are you playing on? From what I hear, for the PC, you have to use the arrow keys to move instead of the WASD keys. You can move left/right as well as up/down to choose where to play a card. You have to play an A-10 on your 3 piles before you can add another card to any of the piles. After that make sure you use the down key to play another card on the pile (unless you're playing a face card. Those can be played on any card in the stack. (Well, Jacks & Kings can, Queens go on the last card in the pile)

press the down arrow. this moves the card you're trying to play off the previous card and next into line. remember to play in up or down numerical sequence (or same suit sequence) and memorize the powers of the face cards. took me ages too :celebration:

Don't bother, Fizziii. If this really is the problem, then he couldn't even be bothered to look at the manual, which clearly states the rules and "Navigate through the cards with the ARROW KEYS (in bold)...".

The dang manual spells everything out yet everyone is going on and on about how they can't play Caravan.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ayb48b-4L5g
- Covers the absolute basics.

(There are others out there, not authored by me. The key is to figure out the use of the arrow keys on the keyboard.)

It is worth noting that Caravan was only fixed in a patch.

I couldn't figure it out either, could only discard etc., couldn't cycle through cards. I thought the game was obtuse and that I just couldn't learn it. Turns out it was pretty easy to learn once the PC version was patched so that the mini-game wasn't actually borked.

I'd say to the OP to make sure that they have patched the game and try again.

Sorry, double post . . . somehow?

Thanks, to everyone that posted.

I'll check to make sure I've got the patch and will give the game another go.

As to Pyris, good job -- I bet you make lots of friends by insulting complete strangers on the interwebz. It would have cost you less energy to just click onto the next thread.

Caravan is pretty easy, IMO it makes the game too easy. For example, I can buy everything a merchant has, everything, and then just get all my money back, including the money he had before, playing caravan. I will even make a profit doing that. You can easily win caravan, no problem, just need a right deck build. Theres the one that I use and you can always win, I only lose 2 times, and I already won more than 40000 caps just playing caravan. Remember this only works with merchants that play caravan.

Simply make your deck with 30 cards only (the less possible), and put for numbers ONLY 8, 9 and 10. Then for the otherrs, put only J and K, NO JOKERS, and if you dont get 30 cards by using those, you can increase a few Q just to mess around with your oponnents caravans. Remember that you can use J, Q, K and Jokers in your oponnents caravan, this way you can make he outbid the caravan, or make he loses everything.

Ok, after having this build, thats some of the combinations you can do to win (remember you need the caravans to be 26, thats the max you can reach without outbiding):

Using 10

First 10, then 8 and put a K on the 8.
First 8, then 10 and put a K on the 10.
Remember to DONT put 9 together with 10, if you already used a 10 you MUST NOT use a 9 card, only 8.

Using 9

First a 9, then 8 and put a K on the 9.
First an 8, then 9 and put a K on the 9.
Same as above, DO NOT use 10 with 9.

Using 8

Well, you will need 8's for both numbers, so they are your best cards to have, try to put all 8's you have.

Thats it, using those combinations you will always reach 26, and very fast (only 3 cards for each caravan to reach 26). You can use the J to remove a card you used by mistake, or agaisnt the enemy caravan. Maybe it got confusing if you dont know what each letter does, then Ill explain it here:


Jacks: Jacks can remove any card you want, any (including enemy cards). They a good to remove some cards that you used by mistake and would make impossible to reach 26 exactly, or to remove enemy caravan cards so he goes under 21. Example:

You have a 10 and a 9 , that makes your caravan with 19 points. However, you can only play an 8 and that would make your caravan go above 26 (27 it would be). Using the J you can remove either the 10 or the 9, and then use one of the combinations.

Queens: Queens change the "direction" of any caravan (including enemy caravans) that its placed on. Example: You have a caravan with a 6, 7 and a 9. Your caravan is "going up", that means now you can only place numbers higher than 9, thats only 10. However since you already have 22 points, you need a 4 to win, but you cant place it. If you use a Queen on any card on this caravan, it will chance the caravan direction, so after using the Queen, you will be able to use only numbers lower than 9. You can also use this to mess with enemy caravans, using the same strategy: If the enemy needs a low number and he can use this number, you can use a Queen to chance his direction and he wont be able to use that number.


Kings: Kings are the best cards IMO, any card that you use a king on it will have its value doubled. Example: You have a 10 and an 8, thats 18 points. If you use a K on the 8, it will double (add another 8), that means it will be 10 + 8 + 8, that will turn into 26. Same thing with other combination I explained: If you have a 9 and an 8 (17 points), use a K on the 9 and it will be 9 + 8 + 9 (17 + 9) and it will be 26. Yes, Kings really are the best cards of the game.


Jokers: I dont know exactly what jokers do yet, its very confusing, but from what I understood until now:
They can only be played on cards from A to 10. When you play the card into an A, EVERY card that has the same suit of this ace will be removed from the game, every card. If you use the joker on a 2 - 10, every card with the same value will be removed of the game, except the one you played the joker. For example: If you play the joker into an ace of diamonds, every other diamonds card will be removed of the game. And if you play the joker into a 5, every other 5 of the game will be removed except this one you used the joker.

So, thats it, took me a while to write all this. If any of this got confusing please tell me and I will try to explain better, since english is not my native language, and I may have written somethings wrong, thanks.

The first section would make 28, so put the K on the 8.

A note about Jacks, they also remove any face cards attached to said card. So if your opponent plays 8 with K and a 10 to make 26, you can play the Jack on the 10 to drop him to 16, or the Jack on the 8 to remove the 8 and the King dropping him to 10.

There are a handful of reasonable strategies for deck construction:

10, 6, 10
7, 9, 10
9,8,9

All of these are functionally overkill and should leave you undefeated against any NPCs. Kings are unnecessary: just include the actual numbered cards you want in your deck. Kings *can* be used (as Bibs has described) but there is no need to, and they make you more vulnerable to your opponents' Jacks and Jokers.

Regarding Jokers: they should not be ignored, they are actually the most powerful card in the game. My preferred deck is:
7s x 9
9s x 8
10s x 9
Joker x 4

If you anolyze the abstract flow of the game closely you'll find that whomever goes first is the player that will have the first opportunity to win the game (the first player that can put 3 cards on two caravans). If both players are playing with decks entirely >= 7, the player that goes second may find themselves in situations where they MUST play a Jack or Joker on turn 6 to prevent their opponent from winning. In that situation, if the first player is good enough and had good enough cards, they will be able to stay permanently ahead. That's where Jokers come in: they can get you 2-for-1s that put you on the offensive.

That said: this almost never comes up in-game, since the NPCs have bad decks and flawed AI.



EDIT: Oh, and please don't use that blue font.

I liked the combo of Ks, Js, 10s, & 6s. Fill the rest with even numbered cards. Can't lose.

Of course you can't lose anyway because the game is broke at this point.

Actually 10, 6, 10 & 9, 8, 9 aren't that functional unless you can build a deck of the same suit. Otherwise you have the problem of reversing the order.

The Jokers are a good point though. I've never even considered that issue because the NPC AI is stupefyingly dumb and invariably wastes any advantage they have.

Granted. I was assuming that went without saying. You only really need to be 2-suited to make it work.




Exactly. I wish that there were a special NPC opponent or two out there that had actually good decks and good strategy, so that I might have a challenge. My guess is that I would have heard by now, if there were.

There's always DLC.


Also: I wish that you could acquire cards from the casinos for your deck. Don't casinos universally sell this kind of thing, IRL?

If there is such an NPC out there I certainly haven't met them. I haven't met a single person that will even use a face card against you as of yet. In fact I've played maybe 8-10 different people and no one person seems to play any better than another really.

This.


If you and your opponent have caravans locking horns score-wise, use a Joker to remove a certain card or cards from his caravans that'll knock at least one of his scores below 20 but not effect yours in the same way. :shrug:

Edit - I misread that. The options and corresponding keys/buttons highlight on the screen if you need a pointer. Directional pad or movements keys let you bring cards into play. S'already been answered but heh, stamp it.

Yes, whoever goes first has the first opportunity but I don't understand the comment of "the first player that can put 3 cards on two caravans". The game doesn't end when you get bids on 2 caravans between 21 & 26... All 3 caravans have to have bids in that range (granted, you only have to have 2 of those 3). If you and your opponent are both building up bids on the same 2 caravans, then someone would have to build the 3rd one. Also, don't forget that Kings can be played on your opponents as well. (Can be fun if they have a card with a King on it already. You can bust their bid. Then again, with the AI in this game, there's no real need.

I find gambling pretty underwhelming and disappointing. Not to beat a dead horse but they really should of added some form of poker. Slots, Blackjack, and roulette are all boring.

They have time to make up a stupid game like caravan, yet cant include poker?

I concur, sir. Vegas without poker is not Vegas at all. I would never play slots in real life let alone in a video game. And since the games hinge so much on your Luck attribute I can't be bothered with the other games.

I probably wouldn't mind so much if the AI played Caravan well though.

Exactly, I mean we are in friggin Vegas, yet the gambling is so lame. I played roulette like twice and never thought about playing it again. every once in a while i play some blackjack, but it feels like a kids game. slots are slots. Caravan is overly complicated, yet once you figure it out, you never ever lose. Gambling has become pointless,dull and a waste of time IMO.

I would use Jacks against the opponent before a Joker. The Jack option is far more selective and surgical. Or a King to push them over 26 which breaks their bid entirely (I think the entire track gets wiped).

It will be interesting to see if they can up-the-ante on programming the AI to play it better.

Blackjack, Roulette and Slot Machines are all super-easy to program, which is why they're in the game. The only one that requires any strategy at all on the part of the house or opponent is Blackjack. And the AI rules for Blackjack are usually the simple "hit / don't hit" variety based on the current point total. The other two are pure chance-based and the house is not betting against you. I'm surprised that they didn't add Craps as well, but maybe they didn't get around to making a 3D model of that table. That would be yet another easy-to-program gambling game with a built-in house "edge".

(The gambling in New Vegas mostly seems to be a way to give the player free XP/caps.)

Ok... so I see all of the strategy on this page, but it definitely isn't necessary for this video game. I still don't know what the hell I'm doing and I'm undefeated. So far I think jokers are pointless, queens would be good if the opponent was smart... but they're not. Other than that, I haven't come close to losing yet.

Jokers are powerful, but not the smart choice for use against an opponent. Jacks are the far better choice.

Jokers act differently depending on whether used on an Ace or a 2-10 number card, placed on an Ace, they remove all other non-face cards of the ace's suit from the table. Eg. a joker played on an Ace of Spades removes all spades (except face cards and that card, specifically) from the table.

Jokers placed on the numbered cards 2-10, remove all other cards of this value from the table. Eg. a joker played on a 4 of Hearts removes all 4s (other than that card, specifically) from the table.

So, if you have only jokers, there are some times when you might be forced to wipe one of your own cards from the game as well, where as a Jack will just remove one card, but exactly the card you want, and no others.

I personally have all hearts removed from my deck, which makes the use of a joker on an opponents heart suited card sure to not hurt my caravan bids.

Also for the bug where your bought single aren't going into your deck, just put them into a container, close it, open it, remove the cards, and they are now in your caravan deck.

That's true, but I was speaking about the abstract structure of the game: whomever plays first has an inherent advantage, assuming that player has a deck constructed of >= 7 cards. With powerful decks, after turn 5, players will be forced to compete for bids on at least one Caravan, assuming they don't start discarding or disrupting their opponent. This is a pivotal point in the game and can lead to the first player winning on turn 7. My "the first player that can put 3 cards on two caravans" comment refers to the scenario where players are playing with >= 7 decks and any three-card combination is a winning bid.

If player A bids up Caravan 1 to 26 on turn 5 and player B bids up Caravan 3 to 26 on turn 5, they reach the pivot point. Specifically, player A will likely bid up Caravan 2 on turn 6 at which point player B can not win, unless they disrupt their opponent's current bids. This is not only the abstractly shortest game scenario, but a model for how (acting as player A or B ) you need to understand your role in a given game.





While the Joker does narrow your options, in some cases, the point is that it is a necessity at the upper echelon of competition in the game. As I said before: if your opponent has a deck of comparable power and strategy to your own, simply removing one of their cards with your Jack doesn't actually get you very far, since you spent your turn to do so. They can simply replace said card with a functionally similar or identical one on the following turn. The Joker, conversely, punishes powerful opponents that have streamlined decks.

See my example from above: player B, on turn 6, cannot actually gain any long-term advantage with a Jack (unless their opponent has used a King, which I don't consider to be a valid strategy for maximal deck construction). Player A can simply replace the removed card and parity will be reached. (Again, I'm assuming streamlined decks where players have access to a homogeneous pool of cards and replacement of any one denomination is reliable.)

The observant among you may say: "but CHA1N5, in that situation - with so many cards in play, a Joker is likely to remove your cards as well." To which I can only say: you're right, in that situation. Which is why the astute player will be monitoring what their opponent plays on turns 1-4 for opportunities to 2-for-1 them with Jokers. It does not matter at what stage of the game you get your 2-for-1, it simply matters that you do. Once you have done so, you become the aggressor, with the time advantage. It is in this way that the first player has one disadvantage: they have more cards committed to the board in the early stages for a Joker-wielding opponent to attack.

For those of you that prefer Jacks to Jokers: are you playing with a streamlined deck? (ie. 2-3 denominations, 2 suits?) If you are playing with a deck that is less optimized, it's reasonable for you to find that Jacks are better. Jokers become more accurate and powerful as your deck and your opponents' decks become more focused. Jacks are reliably good early in the game when your opponent may only have a few high-denomination cards or they are relying on Kings.


Again: it's all academic, this level of anolysis is a hobby for me and in no way necessary to reliably win at Caravan in the Wasteland.


* note: putting a stack above 26 does not remove it, it just sits there and doesn't count as a winning bid.

I think this game could reasonably be played with a decent group of people IRL. Have each person start with a different backed deck. Then before you take your 8 cards, each player puts 1 into the middle for each caravan (i.e. you're now bidding on 3 caravans of 2 cards each, just leave them face down). When the game's over, whoever has the high bid for each caravan gets the cards in the middle for it. This way the winner will always wind up with 1 or 3 more cards than he started with. (If he wins 2 caravans, he gets his own 2 cards back, plus 2 of his oppoents, and gives up one of his own, so +2 -1 = +1, and if he gets all 3, then he obviously gets all 3 of his opponents cards).

As you play various people your deck can start getting a mixture of cards and you can start adding in duplicate cards to your deck for play allowing customization.



I see your point, but if that was the strategy that you used against a person IRL, then they'd start disrupting you or else building up their primary bid where your primary bid is. Then disrupt yours at some point. I think IRL, different strategies would start to evolve.

That's true with the stack above 26 comment. I've done it to the computer in the game and they let it sit there for a while. I don't super-specialize my deck at all, so occasionally I've got cruddy cards and mess with them instead.