Thats all apart of the roleplay my man. Doing what your character would do.

Good lord, you people are jarl whipped.

I did him a few favors and he thought he owned me. Not to mention I brought him Ulfric's axe, so yeah I'm a Stormcloak... glad you finally got the memo.

Vignar is just as good a jarl and has twice the badass.

But Vignar doesn't kiss my scaly dragonborn cheeks, so he's not as Ballin, Celan.

I doubt it. from what we see ingame, Tullius hates Ulfric and because of that he can't see anything right or good about the Stormcloaks.

But Vignar's... old.

People? More than that one person?

I understand what you're saying, but AFAIK, only one person has been kidnapped. And even then, then Battle-Born has sympathies, otherwise, they wouldn't care what happened. (though it is wrong they taunt Fralia with that information.

I know, but if he compared the two, I doubt he'd respect Balgruuf who is just [censored] footing around.

She's talking about the thalmor carrying prisoners through the hold from the trail leading away from Rverwood.

Wow.

I HATE Vignar.

No reason.

Just cause he takes over jarlship and I hate how he talks.

I like to rp, but I find it hard to do that to Balgruuf

So?

Other than the random patrols, Thorald says the Thalmor hoped to use him to draw the other Greymanes out, so they had plans for more grabs.

How did this get to be about stupid Balgruuf?

I get Imperial Soldiers w/ Prisoner, but I understand. It happens throughout all the holds too.

As for Vignar, I don't have any hate. I'm pretty neutral toward him.

To think people would side against a man because he's old and you don't like how he talks....

I'm too much of a roleplayer to let something like that influence me.

Cause I mentioned I hated fighting for the cloaks cause it ousted him

Ulfric is the closest thing to a true Nord.

Actually, from what Tullius says in Elenwen's party, his "hate" is more due to his duty to put him down rather than personal hate. Or that's what I think at least..

Regarding Balgruuf, he's a good leader, and it's a pity I had to put him down. But good leaders can also make bad choices from time to time...and I also think his choice of the Imperials over the Stormcloaks was both biased and childrish, as if he chose the Imperial side just to screw up with Ulfric.

Nut up, son. When I first played through the quest line, I expected it to be much more brutal than it was. Balgruuf's fate is to sit in the basemant of the Blue Palace and nibble on boiled sweet while openly talking about putting Ulfric's head on a pike. He got off very, very easy, and so did Elisif. I expected to see her head roll, too. The empire wanted to execute me for being in the wrong place at the wrong time.

Anyway it just sickens me to make the Nords bow down to a crumbling empire and their elven overlords. If Ulfric did half the things people accuse him of, I'd still pick his side.

I don't think it was quite that way, but I do think his bias against him is what eventually pushed him to the Legion in the end, like what Gerdur suggested.

That's what I was referring to. And as I said, it's a childish decision.

It would be childish if that was the only reason, but I'm not going to trick myself into thinking that is the only reason for picking the Legion. Everyone has some bias in them that makes them pick a side. I doubt he actively thought, "You know what? I always hated that bastard. I don't care what the cause is. [censored] Ulfric Stormcloak. I'm goin Drake!"

Okay, I am not havint o use my iPod anymore, so I can type more than I have been.

Okay, so I like Balgruuf a lot, he made a heavy first impression on me and I grew attached to him. In other words, without him my game feels... wrong, it feels broken. Does that make sense? I can' explain it well.

I feel... connected to him. Emotionally I feel like he's a good person, but the war has taken the toll on him, and he's not even a part of it. It makes me feel pretty bad when I see him hobbling around, saying "I surrender... I surrender..." and then saying "How many men on those streets lie dead with the faces of...." and stuff. It really shows a brutal and unforgiving side to the war, and no one else in the entire questline mentions that like he does.

It's hard for me to kill off a character I have grown attached to and makes me feel bad in real life.

If I had it my way, I'd have it where Balgruuf joins whichever side the Dragonborn is on.

It's childish if he breaks the balance inside his head between both sides with only that bias (which is what I think he does), and he doesn't think of the consequences of his choice. Sadly, that sort of thing (starting a war because "that boy stole me a toy when I was little") has happened a lot in RL...

I just don't think you can call someone childish for a decision made that was influenced by a feeling you have subconsciously. We don't know he did, and he very well may have made the decision fully aware of his dislike. I just doubt it. I still don't respect the choice he made because of that doubt though, because from the line about being forced to accept the wgc, it seems like he full well did start to lean the opposite way, and it does seem like his bias influenced him. I just can't call him childish for something that everyone on some level does. Its a point against him in my eyes, but to call him a child seems to be too black and white on the matter. If that makes sense.

I just called the decision childish, not himself.

Saying a stupidity just once doesn't make someone stupid...

You don't kill him off, he just moves to the Blue Palace basemant. Him and his crew chill out with the other former Jarls.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tntSLNZmtdY

I just love to hang around those losers from time to time...