In my opinion, I just can't stand Ulfric because he reminds me too much of Hitler.

Jingles1215 makes an excellent point about this in his Skyrim LP.

Ulfric doesn't think that his race is the apex one and should dominate all over the others. But, oh! There's another faction in-game that does that! I'll give you a hint: they're tall, generally blonde and their name begin with "T".

People should REALLY begin to differenciate between wanting to defend your people and wanting to dominate other people.

Yeah, I forgot. I actually mentioned I hated his imprisonment earlier in the thread.

Same thing to me, in-game that is. (dying and imprisonment is entirely different, I agree).

Ulfric isn't racist, at least not anymore than the average Nord. I mean every race is biased against others for sure to some degree, there's no denying that. I feel like he's truly fighting for what he believes. I don't get it when people say he's selfish and power-hungry.

When he talk to him about his death, he mentions it like "I can accept that fate if I die", as if he is at peace with it. He also seems to not care if he dies, as long as the Nords understand him and his cause and fights on, he will be fine.

I didn't actually mean it in that way.

Tell you what, I have to sleep now, but in the morning i'll give you some of my reasons.

Saying that "Ulfric reminds you too much about Hitler" doesn't give a lot of room for interpretations.... -.-

Back on topic.

I'm just wondering if the Greybeard's chose Ulfric because they saw something in him. Like, do you think they knew he'd rebel? What do they think of the war? The Empire?

If you don't know, do you think Ulfric will play a major role in the Lore after Skyrim or be thrown away?

I don't see how Ulfric can be compared to Hitler, if anything he is the opposite. Hitler invaded other countries because he wanted to rule them, he wanted to build up his own empire. Ulfric fights because he wants his own country to break away from the Empire and become independent.

I feel the same way. He isn't an hypocrital, although looking at his dossier, he has had quite the bad luck with the Thalmor...(meaning he has been messed a lot). It's no strange he hates them with a passion.

It's sad to say this, but I think the terms "Asset - Uncooperative" fits him pretty well. That said, exactly the same can be said for the Empire.

If it were for me, I'd put both leaders in the negotiations' table, and make them see that they're both right, and they're both wrong. But even more, I'd make them see than the Thalmor are the only enemy there, and that they're totally playing with both sides. And the most important question I'd ask to Tullius would be: "General, what are the plans of the Empire regarding the Thalmor?".

And then make my choices depending of his reply. Of course, there's no such scene or dialogue in-game, so I just reasonably guess his reply: I think he'd basically tell me to ...... ....., and that he doesn't have to reason with rebels (being the disrespectful military no-brainer he is), in that case I'd continue kicking Imperial asses as a Stormcloak

Because of all the Jarls, including Ulfric, Balgruuf is the only one that actually backs up his talk when it comes to the duties of a Jarl. He puts his people first, and always first. All his people, not just the Nords, not just the people that agree with him, all of them. Of any character in the game, he's the only one I'd be willing to back as High King of Skyrim. He's an actual stateman as well as a warrior, rather than a power tripping brute that kills anyone who stands in his way and justifies it with "tradition."

Traditions are like religion. They're both the preferred lines of defense for scoundrels. And Ulfric has fortified both of them.

Traditions are traditions, and the seal of identity of a certain people. And I remember you that Dead King Torygg actually ACCEPTED Ulfric's challenge.

It's you Imperial liars who justify your actions by calling a tradition and an honorable and just combat "a murder". Ulfric was just stronger than Torygg, and there's not even the excuse of Ulfric's Shouts, as Torygg could just have trained the same way to obtain them, being also a Nord.

Backs up his talk? He doesn't do a damned thing until either Tullius or Ulfric forces the issue. And both sides are killing people who stand in their way, thats how civil wars work. But anyway, he didn't justify killing Torygg with tradition. There's a big difference between tradition and law. He had a right by Skyrim law to do what he did, one that Torygg himself recognized.

One thing you can't claim though is that Ulfric doesn't back up his talk. He stays defiant to the very bitter end, and his duty if you are referring to the Dark elves is not to them, because they are not citizens. http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Skyrim:Decree_of_Monument

This. A pretty talking extremist.

At least Balgruuf proves to have sense in his head. It's got absolutely nothing to do with him being the first jalrl I met or whatever ridiculous excuse SC supporters want to come up with.

Then I sincerely hope you've absolutely nobody to defend, neither people or kin you love or your own culture. In fact, I can pretty much guarantee so, as only someone watching over something daring to him could understand Ulfric.

Mhmm, what sense does it make to wait in taking a side in a civil war when your hold basically would determine the winner? I'd respect him more if he was at least honest with himself and went Imperial a lot sooner. If I as an SC had to take the hold then and there was no question of who he was loyal to, then there'd be nothing for me to really call him out on.

He's legion from the get go, don't let him fool you. He should have just been honest with himself. His comment of "You? A Stormcloak? I expected better from you." Basically proves that he was against them for a while now.

I just want to say that I think Ulfric rightfully challenged the High King in a fair, and honest way.

Anyone in-game who says otherwise just doesn't like Ulfric. It's like real-life. If someone's friend gets beat up, then most people would obviously say "Oh, the other guy cheated", when he actually did not. Get what I mean?

Ulfric believes Skyrim should be returned to the old ways. The TRUE High King of Skyrim is a badass, iron-fisted leader that no one else should be able to beat. And as much as anyone would like to disagree, Ulfric IS that image - he's a powerful, worthy, Thu'um-trained, and charismatic ruler.

Makes me reconsider my options... sorry Lucretia, be prepared to be deleted. Torik Valgard he we come!

I wonder why he might possibly like the Legion/empire more?? Hmmm....

I wonder where that question even came up, considering I don't scold him for making that choice in my post you quoted? I scold him for not making his choice sooner and prolonging things.

I don't dislike him because he chose legion. I dislike him because he was dishonest, and stalls things up, and I think his bias against Ulfric pushed him to the legion. I'm sure he had other reasons. I just think that was the most influential.

Basically, I have very little respect for those who make a choice for which side to pick based off of their like or dislike for the man and not the cause. Such as the talk of Vignar vs Balgruuf and statements like he's old or I don't like his voice, or attitude.

you can think it was because of his bias all you want, but there is zero solid proof to it.

There's not solid proof of Ulfric's racism either, yet that sure doesn't stop people from believing it.

There's not much facts behind either side of the civil war. Both sides are guilty of bias and misinformation.

Neither of Ulfric's power-hungriness.

In fact, based of all his dialogue, it's quite the opposite.

He's power hungry, but people who say that assume its a desire for power for its own sake and not to do something meaningful with said power. He's making a difference the only way you can in that setting. He sees something that he thinks needs to be changed and he's stepping up to do something about it. No other Jarl did. He's a man of action.

Yep, you're right. I meant it in the egoistical way

My characters would probably disdain forever whichever side started dikeering for land in season unending and since I never start the civil war early its given me a very bad impression of Ulfric.. Seriously guys it pretty much proves you shouldn't ne where you are if you start this. I know Tulius starts it if you're Stormcloak but if you're neutral Ulfric is a mega jerk from beginning to end Outside of that my impression of Ulfric is Ok. He has good and bad moments and you can take what you want form that and go either way. Galmar stone fist on the other hand always think needs killing no matter what side I'm on. He just really rubs me the wrong way with all my characters. I honestly feel there's no right answer here and BGS has given us enough conflicting information for us to be equally comfortable /uncomfortable with either way we go.

I get the betrayal cringe with Balgruuf also. It stopped my first playthrough as a Storm cloak cold. It also seems idiotic to attack a neutral party and expend resources even if they are centrally located but I'm sure I'll be shouted down on this.

a little more on target, I just always assumed he was noble and exceptional with the talent so was chosen. Nothing more complex than that. Even given his shortcomings. I'll give him using the voice to try and save Skyrim is " in true need". I just wish he has restrained himself with the high king. That's another sticking point many on my characters have with him. That being said I can easily rationalize going either way.