There's already been a lot of discussions regarding this and of Nord honor and murder, blah blah blah so this isn't mainly on that matter of debate. Though I favor the stormcloaks and rank them higher on the "to join" list since I've given up playing warrior builds and going with my line of Shadowhearth and Lordhearth characters (mainly thief-mage type sly, manipulative, intellectual, flexible, egotistical, characters that are maximize Skyrim's full roleplay value)

Back to the point one, but I guess I should mention it here that one of the most debatable subject is Ulfric's cause (is the duel legit? was it murder?)

Imperial supporters would most likely answer the first one with a NO and the second with a YES.

^They back this up with the presumption of Ulfric doing a sort of sneak attack on Torryg.

Stormcloak supporters would most likely answer the first one with a YES and the second one with a NO.

^They back this up with the presumption that Torryg accepted the duel (the old way style) and lost.

Now let's take a look at Ulfric and a recent realization from him plus a main question I want to ask:

There are a lot of questionable suspicions, but for one is that I'm pretty certain Ulfric *thought and believed* he did the best possible case scenario for making a point/cause to back his claim and garner support.

If you look at it closely it was a smaaaaaart move to hit his enemy at a weak point and call it a duel (because the abstraction of the "OLD Nord way" was sooo high at that time and he was very cleeever to call it that of the "Old Nordic way", I mean really are there any books or literature at all mentioning the old primal customs on that subject? No, so I'm pretty sure he planned it well.

Okay I'm straying too far, I just want to make a point on the subjectiveness of the old ways.

This is my main question and point?:

Was there seriously NO SCHEDULED fights/duels that the old Nords made when they did a duel? <--- Not enough ask this question on this duel debate, I mean really. Also no one in Skyrim could even call the concept to mind.

^ if the answer to the no scheduled duels was a big NO then how the heck did the ancient Nords manage?

I think even clever Ulfric didn't even realize this, when he came barging on Torryg on an empty stomach. Could've been better for him though if he would have just scheduled a duel, instead of his clever little scheme to barge in and do some sorcery. (this just makes the stormcloaks look like a bunch of drunkards wanting to cause mayhem)

Let's see what Torryg has to say:

I faced him fearlessly - my fate inescapable, yet my honor is unstained - can Ulfric say the same?

^Okay so a lot would argue on this.

Stormcloak supporters might say "High King Torryg admitted defeat."

Empire supporters might say "He was murdered."

Well whatever the case maybe I think Bethesda just forgot to give Ulfric a proper AI Schedule package to properly challenge Torryg and made him coc to the Blue Palace and set him to aggresive.

He challenged him to single combat. blah blah blah.... He didnt murder him.
In empire law he murdered him, in nord law he WON the duel.

/thread.

Ulfric's killing of Torygg was lawful by all means.

Which is not much of a compliment to Ulfric from me but rather a puzzled remark of one of the most insane traditions I've heard in Skyrim. It's so Byzantine that I'm amazed the Imperials did not realize what not scrapping such a ridiculous law would bring them. Anyone with a brain should know that encouraging regicide is not a good idea, especially if the King is supposed to be your client ruler.

The way I heard it, it was fair according to Nordic customs. It may be unfair to Imperials, but that's because they're Imperials, not Nords. Their way of dueling is probably more in line of two guys arrange a duel and they both come with the same equipment to give the other guy a fair shot of winning. Nord way of dueling is likely different. Their way is more of 'bring along whatever you have, as you've likely earned the right to have it anyway.'

Now could it have been arranged? It's implied that there was some kind of arrangement. Ulfric didn't just walk up to ol' Torygg and blast him onto the floor before commency stabby-stab death. At least that's the meaning I extract from Torygg himself. The guy knew he had no chance against Ulfric, but Nordic tradition demanded that they fight anyway with whatever they have.

The argument stems from the cultural clash between Imperials and Nords. Imperials seem to like honorable duels where you and I would fight with swords, and wearing similar outfits. I don't come in with a full suit of heavily fortified ebony armor weilding a Daedric greatsword with fire enchantment while you have a puny set of elven armor and a glass sword. We both come in wearing the same outfit with the same weapon.