If Ulfric Only wants what is best for Skyrim.. : V

» Wed Apr 03, 2013 1:45 am

Then why wouldn't he allow a moot to be held? Is it because the majority of Nords and rulers are against him? Is it because he himself wouldn't be selected as High King, resulting in the need to kill the new one too? Is it because Days of our Lives was on at the same suggested time?

Ulfric sure does talk a big game, but it's awful convenient how every solution he can think up involves him being High King. It's pretty clear what his real motivation is.

» Tue Apr 02, 2013 9:05 pm

Then why wouldn't he allow a moot to be held? Is it because the majority of Nords and rulers are against him? Is it because he himself wouldn't be selected as High King, resulting in the need to kill the new one too? Is it because Days of our Lives was on at the same suggested time?

Ulfric sure does talk a big game, but it's awful convenient how every solution he can think up involves him being High King. It's pretty clear what his real motivation is.

It's actually 50/50 with who's with and against him.

» Tue Apr 02, 2013 8:27 pm

It's actually 50/50 with who's with and against him.

Imperial cities have more population and a higher ratio of Nords by my own count, and when Whiterun is included it's only higher. Ulfric made it quite clear the Jarls are either with him or against him, which cast doubt in just how many bend their knee to him based on fear alone.

» Tue Apr 02, 2013 11:34 am

Imperial cities have more population and a higher ratio of Nords by my own count, and when Whiterun is included it's only higher.

I thought it was the Jarl's opinion that mattered. But I honestly have no idea.

» Tue Apr 02, 2013 12:06 pm

Ulfric only cares about Ulfric.

He uses 'True Nord' propaganda to get people to what he wants.

He likes getting Stone-Fisted.

He's even has the audacity to act smug if you make him High King.

» Tue Apr 02, 2013 5:25 pm

Imperial cities have more population and a higher ratio of Nords by my own count, and when Whiterun is included it's only higher. Ulfric made it quite clear the Jarls are either with him or against him, which cast doubt in just how many bend their knee to him based on fear alone.

That's the thing though, we don't know if they're with him through fear or not.

» Tue Apr 02, 2013 7:37 pm

That's the thing though, we don't know if they're with him through fear or not.

In the end, that wouldn't matter. It would affect our opinions, but the reasons they are with him don't matter, just so long as they are with him. At least I think so.

» Tue Apr 02, 2013 3:01 pm

I thought it was the Jarl's opinion that mattered. But I honestly have no idea.

It is.

» Tue Apr 02, 2013 6:01 pm

In the end, that wouldn't matter. It would affect our opinions, but the reasons they are with him don't matter, just so long as they are with him. At least I think so.

I agree. Whoever says that they are on his side because of fear is just being biased against the Stormcloak's side.

» Tue Apr 02, 2013 5:50 pm

It is.

Well then. That solves that.

» Tue Apr 02, 2013 11:29 am

There are more Imperial holds than Stormcloaks, if you count Whiterun as Imperial (Balgruuf would most likely vote Elisif). So Ulfric can't hold the moot now because he knows he would lose.

» Tue Apr 02, 2013 3:59 pm

He knows that there are only two potential contenders for the throne: Elisif and himself. Nobody else is even trying for it.
He also knows that Elisif is a an unfit ruler. If she wins, it's just allowing the Empire to have another puppet on the throne. That leaves him as the only Jarl who can oppose her for the throne. He denied the moot because he can't give one the chance to choose her for obvious reasons. When he wins the war, he actually does allow for a moot, and the Jarls will most likely chose him.

» Tue Apr 02, 2013 9:53 am

There are more Imperial holds than Stormcloaks, if you count Whiterun as Imperial (Balgruuf would most likely vote Elisif). So Ulfric can't hold the moot now because he knows he would lose.

Which is perfectly fine. If he knows he needs more support, it only makes sense that he would try to get it before trying the Moot.

Why does he conquer all of Skyrim? Just to be sure I guess.

» Tue Apr 02, 2013 1:02 pm

which cast doubt in just how many bend their knee to him based on fear alone.

We have no proof of that at all. I could say the same of the Empire and hold just as much merit. Besides, it doesn't make a difference if they still support him.

Why does he conquers all of Skyrim? Just to be sure I guess

He started the war to drive out the Imperials and Thalmor, who he rightfully sees as a threat to Skyrim. And of course, the Imperial supporting Jarls must go, for they would support Elisif in the moot.

» Tue Apr 02, 2013 10:02 am

Which is perfectly fine. If he knows he needs more support, it only makes sense that he would try to get it before trying the Moot.

Why does he conquers all of Skyrim? Just to be sure I guess.

The Legion wouldn't accept the Moot if it was arranged under Stormcloak military pressure, so it's better to take over the whole country before arranging the moot so there won't be individual holds refusing Ulfric's claim and continuing resistance.

» Wed Apr 03, 2013 1:04 am

The Legion wouldn't accept the Moot if it was arranged under Stormcloak military pressure, so it's better to take over the whole country before arranging the moot so there won't be individual holds refusing Ulfric's claim and continuing resistance.

Makes sense I guess. The point is he doesn't hold the Moot right away is because he knows he might not win. So he does the most logical thing: Get more support.

» Tue Apr 02, 2013 10:13 pm

He knows that there are only two potential contenders for the throne: Elisif and himself. Nobody else is even trying for it.
He also knows that Elisif is a an unfit ruler. If she wins, it's just allowing the Empire to have another puppet on the throne. That leaves him as the only Jarl who can oppose her for the throne. He denied the moot because he can't give one the chance to choose her for obvious reasons. When he wins the war, he actually does allow for a moot, and the Jarls will most likely chose him.

So negating the rhetoric, it's completely proper that a moot can be called, but only when Ulfric is the only candidate? It sort of defeats the point of an election if there is only one candidate.

» Tue Apr 02, 2013 2:00 pm

Ulfric cant call the moot with Tullius in the way and Bethesda decided to end the quest line just as he overcame that hurdle.

» Wed Apr 03, 2013 1:47 am

So negating the rhetoric, it's completely proper that a moot can be called, but only when Ulfric is the only candidate? It sort of defeats the point of an election if there is only one candidate.

All Jarls are potential candidates, but only two are actually seeking the throne, and he sees the other as a threat to Skyrim, so he does everything in his power to insure that he is the victor.

» Tue Apr 02, 2013 8:46 pm

Ulfric cant call the moot with Tullius in the way and Bethesda decided to end the quest line just as he overcame that hurdle.

You've got it backwards. The Imperials make no comment about preventing the Moot. Ulfric openly admits to blocking the Moot.

"But the Moot has not yet met to name her High Queen. And they won't. Not as long as I have any say in it."

All Jarls are potential candidates, but only two are actually seeking the throne, and he sees the other as a threat to Skyrim, so he does everything in his power to insure that he is the victor.

Including preventing due process and allowing the Jarls of Skyrim to choose their High-King free of duress. All in the name of "freeing" Skyrim.

» Wed Apr 03, 2013 1:32 am

Makes sense I guess. The point is he doesn't hold the Moot right away is because he knows he might not win. So he does the most logical thing: Get more support.

It seems more legitimate to vote for someone who directly placed you in charge of a powerful hold with his army pressed at your back, than vote in a free way. This is why secret ballots are so important, no bully tactics to influence votes.

» Wed Apr 03, 2013 12:51 am

Ulfric cant call the moot with Tullius in the way and Bethesda decided to end the quest line just as he overcame that hurdle.

Ulfric killed the High King before any of this. I'm talking about how he denied one from forming after he assassinated the High King of Skyrim.

» Tue Apr 02, 2013 3:49 pm

Play the civil war questline on the side of the Stormcloaks and you'll get a bit more insight into Ulfric's thoughts on the moot.

» Tue Apr 02, 2013 1:26 pm

It seems more legitimate to vote for someone who directly placed you in charge of a powerful hold with his army pressed at your back, than vote in a free way. This is why secret ballots are so important, no bully tactics to influence votes.

He doesn't have his armies pressed to people's backs. He has his armies there to protect the people.

» Tue Apr 02, 2013 4:50 pm

It seems more legitimate to vote for someone who directly placed you in charge of a powerful hold with his army pressed at your back, than vote in a free way. This is why secret ballots are so important, no bully tactics to influence votes.

Even with secret ballots, it wouldn't make a lick of difference. Ulfric would be High King without intervention on behalf of the Dragonborn.

Suppose the Moot was allowed to be held immediately after Torygg's death, and Ulfric lost. He'd likely immediately "challenge" (read: Murder) the duly elected High-King, causing another Moot to be held, and would likely continue to do until he was elected.