http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Skyrim:Thalmor_Dossier:_Ulfric_Stormcloak


What does this meannnn? Me being a die hard stormcloak, when i read this it made me question my beliefs. Is Ulfric in the Thalmor's pocket just like the Empire, or did he do what he had to do in order to get free? Feedback and discussion would help me ease my end, and would greatly appreciated.

I am guessing he was Manchurian Candidated.

He broke under pressure. He was young. The thalmor used this to emotionally compromise him. He's not in the thalmor's pocket, but they do have means to manipulate him.

Also racism, powerthirsty, hypocritical, etc.

Sorry for da noobness, but what does that mean lol?

Uflric Stormcloak was likely in his 20s when The Great War happened, and by that time. From what it seemed, he was tortured and broke down after the fact (one could only imagine how cruel the Thalmor are, he's lucky he kept his tongue shut long enough for the empire to make it to White Gold Tower).

And by agent, he's someone who could be manipulated, as direct confrontation will likely lead to least desired results, and/or the loss of a bunch of Thalmor agents. Make no mistake, he hates them, and plans on invading Summerset Ilse asap when you have total Stormcloak victory.

Thank you, i was getting worried there for a sec lol.

He is indirectly helping the Thalmor, and he doesn't even know it. The fool is a pawn. Don't let anybody tell you otherwise. The Thalmor are his masters, and he has no idea. He is far too big of an idiot to see that this rebellion works out in the Thalmor's favor.

Both sides are The Thalmor's pawns

The Thalmor don't want to the war to end and so they have been playing both sides making sure neither one gets the advantage.

And the Empire isn't?

Neither victory works out for the Thalmor.

I didn't say that. You are meddling in my propaganda spreading, be gone! Can't have any dissidents spreading bad, but frankly true, things about The Empire now can we?

Well a Stormcloak victory would be better for them in the long run, as it weakens both The Empire and Skyrim.

Though it is best to extend this war to its longest to do the most damage.

The Empire is finished. Continuing to depend of it would only weaken Skyrim.

Except it is far from done

Cyrodiil has been ravaged by the Great War and IIRC only Bruma, Chorrol, and Cheydinhal were spared destruction. Hammerfell hates them, and I doubt they'll forgive Cyrodiil for essentially sacrificing them to the Dominion anytime soon. All they really have is High Rock, and those guys will betray the Empire as soon as it gives the kings there more power.

And

IIRC there's very little information regarding Cyrodiil's current state and no details regarding how hard its cities were hit by the Thalmor.

Hammerfell hates them, but they hate The Thalmor more. Hammerfell may not join The Empire as a province, but that is unimportant. When the time comes and the next war begins Hammerfell will join the Empire against The Dominion


Secondly Titus Medes death is what he wanted, he wanted to die so a person who is less hated would become Emperor. He knew he wouldn't be able to get the people of The Empire on his side to start the war in its fullest.

Or they invade Hammerfell first, claiming that if Cyrodiil helps they'd be breaking the Concordat. If you believe everyone would ally against the Thalmor, then let a nation rule itself. At least the Stormies respected the Empire before the Concordat. The Raga always hated them.

Then they invade both Skyrim and Cyrodiil. Cyrodiil calls the Legions back, and as many Nord troops as possible. Skyrim, unable to defend itself without the standing army Ulfric desired, quickly falls.
It could also cause a succession crisis.


The Thalmor ruled over those cities. Do you think they were nice to the population?

Elven races rebuild at an exceptionally slow rate then Human races, The Empire will be able to attack The Thalmor before The Thalmor can attack The Empire or Hammerfell.

Do I think the Redguards if given the chance to fight The Thalmor would ally with The Empire? Yes.

It could but any leader would have an esier time at rallying the people then he could. Everyone thinks he is a sellout.

Invade with what army, now? Pretty sure the Thalmor got [censored]stomped in the latter part of the Great War, and then driven out of their Hammerfell occupation.

Plus Redguards seem to get HoonDing whenever their independence is threatened.

Ahh yes the HoonDing, I dont know how I forgot about that.

"High elves consider themselves to be the only perfect race. Over hundreds of generations they have bred themselves into a racially pure line, and are now almost identical to one another in appearance. The theory that the High Elves do not reproduce as quickly or as often as humans is false. Rather, and to my horror, they kill nine out of ten babies born to them in their obsession for purity.

Alternatively, dialogue in Morrowind suggests that elves are fertile only when they need to be. With the Altmer's armies destroyed, and their obsession with purity, they'd repair just as fast as the Empire. And they don't need to. Military population is just one part of actually winning a war. With the Empire in shambles, it means their economy would collapse, giving them less ability to feed, train, and equip their troops.


The same army that has Cyrodiil terrified. If they don't have that army, then Cyrodiil is allowing itself to be torn apart for nothing. More reason to leave the Empire, since staying with them would just have the Dominion rip you apart via spying, assassination, ect.

Edit: Hammerfell doesn't always get the HoonDing. It only manifests under special circumstances: for example, Cyrus was only Hoon Ding during his duel with Richton.

The Thalmor's armies do not "terrify" Cyrodill.

I hate these kinds of threads, they either boil down to Ulfric's racial views or each side giving an optimistic view of their side and a pessimistic view of the opposing side, resulting in pretty much endless debate given the very limited information we have. Maybe I've just spent too much time on the Skyrim forums.

That said, I don't think Hammerfell hated the Empire before the Concordat. At least not by the time the Great War started.


Edit: It should probably be stated for the record, that in http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:The_Real_Barenziah,_v_3, an Altmer healer states that elves never conceive more than four times, and usually not more than twice. And this was from the time of the PGE 1E.

I don't think they had a real liking for the Empire, either. See TESA Redguard. The heavily paraphrased version: Hammerfell was in a Civil War, one of the sides appealed to Tiber's conquest, Empire came, saw, and won. Then Cyrus stirred up a rebellion and forced the empire into accepting Hammerfell on Hammerfell's terms.

I love these threads. It gives discussion beyond the metaphysics of Tamriel. That's not to say I don't like discussing those things, I do. It's just something different.

Edit: I don't like the Skyrim forums ones, though. I don't go in most of them anymore.