I asked this question in another thread recently and I thought it would make an interesting topic.

So, if Ulfric were to die at Helgen, would the Stormcloaks cease to be? Thus ending the Civil War.

Personally, I think it might. Ulfric seems to be the glue that holds them together, Galmar is too hot-headed to pick up the mantle.

No longer a cohesive force, I can see the Stormcloaks being reduced to small bands of rebels scattered throughout Skyrim.

An irritant, nothing more.

Discuss.

PLEASE NOTE: This is NOT a Stormcloak bashing or Civil War debate.

Should it degenerate into one, I'll ask the Mods to lock it!

I believe the rebellion would continue for a bit but would eventually collapse unless someone good at leadership took the role.

Galmar would probably take over until a new leader is picked.

Galmar would probably take over, but you have a fair point that without Ulfric, the rebellion is doomed.

Probably Galmar will take that place for a while. But it's more likely they will find a new man to follow. We also have there a strong candidate for this. He is a man who is true Nord, worships Talos, resists Thalmor and shares much of the thoughts with Stormcloaks. Only reason he never joined on the side of Stormcloaks were his personal disagrees and problems with Ulfric. I'm of course talking of Balgruuf the Greater who would clearly join on the right side and also would probably take the lead of it if Ulfric weren't there.

Why didnt I think of Balgruuf. he seems like the right choice... if he was to be a stormcloak if Ulfric was dead.

I'm not so sure Baalgruf would be willing to go become leader of the Stormcloak Rebellion. His main loyalty is to the people of Whiterun, and he has made it clear numerous times that he doesn't really hold a lot of respect for Ulfric and his Stormcloak soldiers. If Ulfric bit it, Baalgruf wouldn't say anything, but he would likely think that it was now only a matter of time before the rebellion ceased.

The rebellion would continue but there would be a power struggle which would lead to an eventual collapse of the Stormcloak rebellion. Similar to Alexander the Great after he died.

Plus, Galmar doesn't seem to be the sort for logistics and planning. He's more 'Tell me who needs their ass beaten, and I'll get my men there.'

An excellent fighter, but likely a poor planner. Not a good thing to be if you're currently a leader of a rebellion.

The Thalmor says it would have greatly improved the chances of the Empire winning the war, but they seem to think that it wouldn't stop it outright. In this scenario, I think they are right. Someone else could step up, but I haven't seen any candidates in Skyrim, other than Galmar who is pretty old already.

I think so too. If Balgruuf really wanted to be the leader of a rebellion, he would like to be the leader of his own rebellion - not mantle the crown after Ulfric and forever stand in the shadow of him.

Pretty much this...

...And this.

Balgruuf's army = Rohirrim.

Galmer would take the helm, but he doesn't have the same charisma as Ulfric. Nor would he have any basis for claims for High King. In all, in Galmar's (or anyone else's) hands the uprising would continue, but they would likely be unable to advance and would be on the defensive until the Empire eventually overcomes them. Even with Ulfric's leadership the Stormcloaks couldn't afford a prolonged conflict and without him, failure would be just a matter of time.

Uprisings in general always depend on a quick victory and strong leadership. Victory must be swift and its leaders must have a clear goal in mind. Take either one of them away and collapse is inevitable.

Not right away, the end of the civil war says that much. But after a few months or maybe even a year I believe that they would fall apart. The rest of the leaders who are SC supporters are pretty much useless.

I think if Tulliuys were to die the same thing would likely happen. No more Empire without a good general to protect it.

Perhaps not an Imperial presence in Skyrim, but just losing the civil war won't make the entire Empire suddenly collapse.

It would take a while before the Rebellion would die out. Of course, they would want someone to take over in the mean time. As others said, Galmar would probably be the one to take over, but I seriously doubt he has any ability to muster men as Ulfric did.

I doubt Balgruuf would, he made it pretty clear he despises Ulfric.

But if Tullius died it may. He is the Empire's problem solver. He's also pretty damn smart in his own right. Besides getting and keeping them out of Skyrim already makes the empire less of one anyways.

I'm assuming that the Empire doesn't have just one problem-solver. And why should they worry? The Stormcloak rebellion is considered a "sideshow" anyway.

It would have made victory for Tullius all the more easier.

Ulfric's probably a more competent commander than Galmar, who in all likelyhood would continue the fight after Ulfric's death.

Hopefully they wouldn't.

The Nords are highly important to the Imperial Legion. And the Legion is what keeps the Empire together. If the Legion is greatly weakened, the Empire diminishes. Skyrim also have an abundance of natural resources, like mines. Losing Skyrim would be a great longterm blow to the Empire.

While I agree that Galmar would probably take over, I am not so sure he is any less competent than Ulfric. Rikke seem to regard him highly.

It's not like Tullius is the only Imperial general. Mede would just send another one to replace him. Rikke is also very much capable of leading the war effort. It's easier for the Empire since they do not depend on personal charisma to advance their cause.

Galmar is a good soldier, but he is not a leader. He is too blunt and rash.

Edit: There I go not reading the OP again.

The Thalmor seem convinced that it'd be quite likely for the civil war to have ended swiftly after Ulfric's death. Not definitive, and they'd have definitely continued fighting, but given a large part of the Stormcloak movement was centered around Ulfric and his designs for becoming the High King of Skyrim, the Stormcloak movement definitely would have suffered a major blow.

Yet, Rikke calls him a "sensible man, not taken to fancy". I don't think his fierce exterior does him any favors, but he seems to be very on top of things. Ultimately, he seems to be the one among him and Ulfric to be right most of the time, at least during the Stormcloak side of the war.

The Empire's somewhat caught between a rock and a hard place, in truth.

Even if Tullius is the only "problem solver", he was given command of a Legion that was ill equipped and not even close to being at full strength (hence the need to recruit locally). His skills as a general allow the Empire to stalemate the civil war in terms of open conflict, whilst very nearly managing to end it anyway (Before the intervention of multiple 'divine' beings).

So we keep this in mind.

The Empire has at least six to ten Legions outside of Skyrim; that's obviously more than enough force to crush the rebellion. Depending on how you handle the civil war and Dark Brotherhood, Ulfric will admit as much. The Stormcloak cause benefits from it being treated as a sideshow.

So why not just send more Legions and crush the rebellion, instead of sending a problem solver like Tullius with limited resources? Great War 2.0 is just around the corner. Both sides acknowledge preparations for it. If more legions go north, it's practically giving the Aldmeri Dominion an open invitation to initiate hostilities again. The Empire knows the Dominion has eyes (and they would anyway, regardless of the White Gold Concordat before anyone tries to say otherwise) watching so this troop movement won't go unnoticed by the Thalmor.

A rock and a hard place indeed.

He was only really right about the Jagged Crown. I don't really recall any other moments of significance, though it has been a while.