What is the likelihood of Ulfric generating supporters from outside Skyrim? The Stormcloaks uprising was mostly driven by the banning of the worship of Talos. What other cultures in Nirn also worship or celebrate Talos? Am I right that there are a lot of Nords who settled in parts of High Rock, the city state of Dragonstar in mortheast Hammerfell also the Colovian region of Cyrodiil around Bruma?

not many outside Skyrim most likely (although there may be a few)..


while Ulfric used "Talos" as a rallying cry, "Talos" himself isn't technically part of the Nord Pantheon at all, only the Imperial one (Talos is an Imperial God that only Officially existed in the Imperial Cult, the Nordic equivalent is actually Ysmir)..


and considering its confirmed by several NPCs in game that the Empire doesn't actually enforce the Talos ban at all (only started in Skyrim after Ulfric focused the eyes of the world on him, prior to his coup no one was ever punished for Talos worship), I can't imagine many outside the province would support him just cause he keeps shouting "Talos!" when they are all worshiping Talos anyways without any issue..



Ulfrics Rebellion in all honesty has some pretty heavy parallels to the historical Crusades of the real world, they use Religion as a rallying cry to try and get people to fight for them (and many of their soldiers fight for and believe in that purpose), but in reality the true purpose of the conflict is land power and racial/cultural hostilities fueled by nobility

Very likely.

Many Talos worshipers likely came to Eastern Skyrim in order to escape religious persecution in their home countries and joined Ulfric's army in order to fight against those who would suppress his worship and establish a refuge for the free worship of Talos.

except there was no persecution, once again its confirmed in game that nobody was being punished for Talos worship prior to Ulfrics coup.. as such, it only makes sense the Talos worshippers in other provinces are just fine because the situation in those provinces hasn't reached a point where the Dominion can intervene, just as they were in Skyrim before Ulfric's actions allowed the dominion to get involved..



you would have a point if the Talos ban was ever enforced, but it wasn't

1. Who, exactly? I think the court mage in Solitude stated something about it, though I can't recall at the moment.

2. You don't know about the situation in other provinces. It could be worse in Cyrodiil due to the shared land border with Valenwood, wherein the Thalmor can send a greater number of Justiciars with greater ease.

Hadvar also says that Nords still had there little shrines of Talos in their homes, right after you escape Helgen with him. He pretty much says that the Talos ban wasn't a big deal until Ulfric's rebellion.

its mentioned by a few members of the various Jalrs courts, as well as Hadvar and the Blacksmith in Riverwood as soon as you escape Helgen (that line of dialogue with the Smith may be reliant on who you exit Helgan with, i can't recall if it is or not).. while "on the books" Talos worship was banned, it was never enforced at all by the empire as they still believed in him since he was still their god (once again, Talos was a god olf the Imperial Pantheon, not the Nordic one).. it was like a teacher running into a highschool student at the mall skipping class saying "you know, class is important your senior year" but never doing anything beyond it to punish the student..

except there not in a state of war like Skyrim..


the main reason the Justicars are able to do what they were doing in Skyrim is because its in a state of war.. Empire was turning a blind eye, Ulfric started using Talos as a rallying cry, and the dominion basically went "well, since your now caught up in a civil war, we can't really expect you to have the resources to be able to enforce the ban when your regional forces are occupied with the Rebellion, so we will do it in your stead until the rebellion is quelled", which is one of the reasons (among others) the Thalmor want the Civil War to last as long as possible (which we know they do from the dossier they have on Ulfric)..



in Cyrodiil or High Rock, they couldn't do that as easily without making a foul of the local authorities because they aren't currently in a state of war so the regional law is incharge enforcing the ban.. they could do it in the Shadows I suppose, as the Dominion have a pretty good intelligence network and the Penitus Oculatus don't seem that they would be very good at counter intelligence or shadow operations (not as good as the blades in their prime at least), but they couldn't hunt down worshipers openly as they are in Skyrim

Talos is an important god to the Nords. The Thalmor were going to increase their efforts eventually.

And you have no information from Cyrodiil and High Rock to confirm your assertion that the presence of an armed conflict would make a difference in how strictly the Thalmor enforce the ban.

Am i right that in parts of High Rock, there is an area that regards itself as Talos's place of birth or the place he was raised and they hold celebrations to him every year?

Well in the book http://en.m.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:The_Arcturian_Heresy it states Talos was born Hjaiti Early Beard from Alcaire in High Rock. So he could have been a Breton or a Nord that was born in High Rock.

The name Hjalti Early-beard would suggest that his father was definitely a Nord, yet I have seen it argued that his mother may have been a Breton.

I agree the name Early-Beard sounds Nordic. Maybe it was as you say. He was half Nord half Breton. No one really knows and it's a topic of much debate here on the lore forums.

According to some dialogue Ulfric can have with Galmar, the Stormcloaks are having trouble getting assistance from outside of Skyrim, at least from High Rock. Remember that Hammerfell didn't want to leave the Empire, it objected to the Concordat on nonreligious grounds (it ceded a large portion of Hammerfell to the Dominion).

Talos is heavily identified with Nords and Nord culture (and in particular, Nord cultural posturing), even if he's not exclusively a "Nord god," and that it appears that many regard the actual banning of Talos worship to be a concession in name only ("All my prayers are silent," Narri, a Nord, can say to Tekla, Dengeir's steward) -- the only thing the Dominion quashed was overt worship of Talos. Unless Telepaths are real, the Dominion can't read minds. The Dominion can imprison anyone it thinks is worshipping Talos, but Alvor suggests that that's a recent development.

I think that Hammerfell is probably more interested it fighting the Dominion than fighting the Empire, and the other races that aren't subjects of the Dominion or the Empire -- the Argonians and Dunmer -- don't give a damn about some human god, and are already independent -- and insular to boot.

He'll have none.. Who would benefit from supporting him? If he becomes High King, Skyrim will stand on its own. Could he partner with Hammerfell to take out the Thalmor? Not sure. I don't see a good future for Skyrim if the Stormcloaks win.

You don't need to be an Ulfric supporter to ally with Skyrim vs whatever.

Hammerfell for one have absolutely the same interests. Don't wanna be part of the Empire and they hate the Thalmor/Dominion so they are natural allies.

The Empire will lick it's wounds and just forget about Skyrim out of necessity and will focus on their Cold War with the Dominion. Down the line i see them being if not allies then neutral towards each other and cooperating vs the Dominion with Hammerfell and Skyrim.

Once Skyrim is independent i don't think the Talos thing will have anything to do with anything anymore. It will just be an internal Empire thing, if it even can be called an Empire now.

I still have doubts about a Hammerfell-Skyrim alliance, seeing as how the Crowns are xenophobic, and the Forebears enforce that 'Redguards only' attitude with the succesful repulsion of the Dominion. Resisting the Dominion may earn brownie points with the various factions in Hammerfell but not enough to cement an alliance.

The Empire's cold war is only so because of the Civil War. Quashing the rebellion as the Imperials hint in no small form the Imperials are building up a powerbase to bring the war to the Dominion once their issues with SKyrim are wrapped up. Even the Dominion knows this as evidenced with their expeditions in Solstheim looking for a counter to Imperial ebony with Stahlrim.

I don't mean some sort of pact of friendship forever and ever or to unite the 2 kingdoms in a single state, but a temporary military alliance vs the Dominion. How xenophobic they are is immaterial.

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The things you said fits the definition of Cold War.

Hammerfell only didn't want to be part of the Empire because the Empire told them to give the southern half of their province to the Dominion for the peace treaty. If the Empire/Dominion conflict reignites, the treaty will be void. While I could understand Hammerfell being reluctant to rejoin the Empire even though they wouldn't have to give up land after that, I don't see why they wouldn't be willing to work together against the Dominion. And the Empire would be a far more powerful ally against the Dominion than an Ulric-led Skyrim, which just got out of a bloody civil war.

Hammerfell resents the Empire right now so i don't think they would rejoin just like that. Not to mention that their default state is independent, why should they join unless forced in the first place?

Some sort of cooperation or military alliance between Hammerfell, Skyrim and the Empire as equals is very likely. Not sure though what role the Empire is gonna play in that cooperation, especially if they don't intend to challenge openly the Dominion in the predictable future.

As I said, I can understand Hammerfell not being thrilled with the prospect of rejoining the Empire. But should hostilities with the Dominion flare up again, the Empire would be a more powerful ally to fight along side than Skyrim which just got out of a civil war.

Oh no it isn't. Ulfric's complaining during the truce negotiations is proof. The Redguards are more wary of outsiders than Nords, and they probably still hold a grudge against Skyrim for Dragonstar.

Except the part where I said they are preparing for a proper war AFTER the Civil War. They have a Cold War now, but at the end of the Crisis, the Great War between the Empire and Dominion can and will very likely reignite again.

Except it does intend to openly challenge the Dominion. Tullius makes that clear the Empire is waiting for secure borders in Skyrim before going back at it against the Dominion. And the province of Cyrodiil will provide a lot of wealth to however holds it. Food, wood, stone, gold, all the things to keep an army moving. If Skyrim and Hammerfell join the Empire in their war, having Cyrodiil means having secure supply lines.

The circumstances in that meeting are very particular and has little to do with foreign politics between nations. Also those sitting on the other side are not much better + these are bitter enemies and it's personal. Hammerfell and Skyrim aren't and if either one is beaten by the Dominion the other will suffer. Each has interest not to allow the Dominion to beat the other + as i said before they have shared distaste of the Empire+ a strong stance vs the Dominion.

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Not in the near future though, afaik, doesn't matter which side wins.

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The cases i mentioned are in a case of a Stormcloak victory so i would imagine that would change the situation a bit. + I have little faith in the Empire's ability or right to lead this war effort in the first place.

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Also i find it odd that you say the rest will Join the Empire in their war, instead of the other way around, when the reason it crumbles is cus they don't wanna do war and oppose the Dominion, while the rest want to or didn't wanna make peace.

Dragonstar is very personal to Hammerfell. 30 years of occupation and terrorism will leave a mark on any relations. It's still personal.

How do you lead a war right? Charge head long into unknown territory when your legions are exhausted, and your intelligence operatives are all dead? Or sue for temporary peace while you find the best means to strike back? There seems to be a lot of talk about how the Empire did it all wrong yet the alternative options I've seen put forward are even more foolish.

And I find it odd you think it won't. Cyrodiil is still a big target for the Dominion. Its resources, its placement giving anyone who controls it direct access to all the other provinces, and the symbol it represents: Man's triumph over Mer. Everyone knows that. It's why the Dominion bull rushed into Cyrodiil despite wanting Hammerfell land in the Concordat. And you can be sure they will try to do so again. The war will begin the same was as the last one did: the Empire tearing up the treaty and the Dominion declaring war.

Only question is who will strike first, the Empire or the Dominion. The following question being will Hammerfell deign to help, or hide in their own lands and wait for the Dominion to come to them.

yeah, I see alot of people saying the Empire did it wrong, even though their choice saved thousands if not millions of lives and gave them time to rebuild their military..



I would really like to see someone actually post a better scenario they could have picked

The Empire doesn't have the right to lead Hammerfell and Skyrim anymore because they ended the war to save their own skin, while the provinces were the ones that had to give the most concessions in the treaty. It's a typical imperial policy. Only Cyrodiil matters. It's also a nice move by the Thalmor admitedly.

The Empire is too meek it's been many many years since the GW, they should be getting bolder by now and not allow the Justicars to come to Skyrim. Instead they should be provoking them by saying they themselves will take care of the Talos problem in Skyrim(and in reality do nothing essential). Just by doing that they could have solved the problems leading to the Civil War. They have lost teeth and are crumbling, even if they have some plan for a future war for who knows when. There should be more signs instead of a single little whisper by the general.

They can do w/e, but in the meantime the nords have the right to not be part of this Empire, while still lending a hand in case of a war, like they have many times before, even vs the Ayleids.