Have any of you played Magicka? It's a cool game. But we're not her for. In that game in particular there is a life element that restores health, similar to health restoring spells, and it damages undead in that game. In the spell making altar you could make restore health on target to heal comrades. What if you used target health spells were very powerful against undead.

P.S. I do absolutely not want any comments saying "THEARES N0S OF DAT IN DA LOREZERS!11! :grad:

I suppose if you're a vampire healing yourself would have ironic effects. I wouldn't mind providing that element when fighting the undead.

Maybe dispel would work as a way to do damage to created undead like zombies and skeletons, since you're damaging the magic that keeps them animated and together.

Vamps are not undead, they're cursed from a daedric disease. You can't cure death with a potion.

I like this idea. It kind of reminds me of some of the "holy" spells in the Midas' Magic mod for Oblivion where they healed living targets but did heavy damage to undead.

Undeads have health, in TES, and that would not work, sunce there is no spell making.

damaging undead with heals (and healing them with death spells) is a classic d&d mechanic so im all for it

Have you been smoking?

What does spell making have to do with it? There were baseline on-target and on-touch Restore effects in both Morrowind and Oblivion.

bump

http://finalfantasy.wikia.com/wiki/Undead

I thought the same thing.
Pretty sure I never heard there wasnt spell creation.

"heal" the dead to hurt them, dispel summons to cause massive damage, cast light on vampires to mimic sun damage...

I heard there is no spell creation. can't remember the source, might have been in an Italian game mag or something. But I know i never read the source first hand

:shrug:

Makes perfect sense to me!

After all... http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/ReviveKillsZombie

Undead aren't powered by an "un-life" but by the same stuff that drives everything else. Thus undead would react to healing just like everything else. That way if necromancy is in I would like it to be in restoration (or enchanting) as it is a matter of controlling life-energies.

Reading through the lore about both necromancy and schools of magic has been interesting, but nothing seems to indicate that restoration spells would damage them in any way. The art of mysticism does seem to be a huge part of necromancy as they trap souls. Alchemy seems to be part of the rituals where the use of salt for example will create a mummy. It is clearly said in the book, Mannimarco, King of Worms that the magic Mannimarco uses is "Wicked Mysticism". Now that mysticism has been moved into the other schools, I'm not sure where I'd put necromany. Restoration could be used to control life energies, but conjuration could also work in a similar way.

in Oblivion for example, the Dunmer were given the Summon Ancestor Guardian greater power, which fell under conjuration. This is a form of Holy summoning, requesting aid from the ancestors who are int he same realm as the souls and spirits of men and women the dark art, ie. necromany, summons.

The Black Arts on Trial book states that all magic schools are very similar and are linked together. Necormancy could thus be an Art that requires both Restoration and Conjuration, but I do believe more in the Conjuration part.

With perks we could now specialize the conjuration skill to either summon deadric gear and apparel to aid us, summon dremora creatures and such, or the unlocking of the dark arts, being able to not only summon undead and ghosts, but make our own, much more powerful servants using rituals. The corruption of our own soul would be essential, as that is how the lore goes. Actually binding a spirit to a dead body and having it follow us and serve us without a fixed time when it is going to die would sincerely corrupt us, in what way is a totally different story, but it could have negative effect on all other schools of magic or perhaps make us easier to kill with magic, ie. weakness to magic.

Now that just doens't make any sense, you can't be more dead than another one who is dead. And with that logic damage effects should be the ones that restore the undeads HP, yeah right.

Usually, as far as healing and revive spells are conerned, undead have negative HP. Normal damage damages them normally. Also Dispell magic should, if powerful enough, dismiss summoned creatures.

More dead than dead is undead, which for some reason means they come back to life...

I guess in a majority of RPGs the life and death goes on a scale per say...as far as healing goes:
HP:<-----I-2I----------I-1I----------0----------I1I----------I2I----->
---------------------undead-------dead--------alive------------------

So when you cast a heal spell on a zombie, it will bring it's health towards zero, but if the difference will not pass zero without special effects. ie necromancy, etc.
Therefore, when you see a zombie with health of 2, his actual health is -2. The health displayed is I-2I

Just a way to think about it that makes sense. :happy:

I realized that, it's logical but doesn't make any sense, because that filosofical way of thinking has a basic fact at the bottom of the thought, that something is true. That "truth" in this thought says that zombies would be more dead than the dead, when they in fact are more alive than the dead, no matter how cursed and dark it might be. The Un-dead basically means not-dead, which is the same thing as alive because you can only be two things: Dead or alive, there is nowhere in-between those two. The undead is very much alive, but not in the traditional sense. Thus, a healing spell should heal zombies mortal wounds, because it doesn't target the dead spirit inside the un-dead / living body.

I think the dead are the same amount of dead as the undead. Magically animating a body doesn't make it less or more dead, so casting a healing spell shouldn't affect it either way.

I think that it would give a little more thinking to the table.

Vampires are most certainly undead. Morrowind and Oblivion simply did not take it as far as Daggerfall did. In Daggerfall you very literally pass away. You're buried at a nearby cemetery, and because you died, your guild standings are all erased. MW and OB just have you die and return to life after a little while on the bed you slept in. Not quite as interesting as Daggerfall, but there's nothing there hinting at you simply having a disease that makes you want to svck blood.




I'm not sure that would hurt them. No more than hitting them with soul trap, or charm. What I find peculiar about vampirism is that they are damaged by sunlight. But in the Elder Scrolls, the Sun (Magnus) is just a very big hole punched through Oblivion. Much like in real life, the Sun is no different than the other numerous stars in the night sky in function. They are all holes in Oblivion through which magicka leaks. Obviously Magnus allows much more light/magicka through than the others, giving us the day/night cycle. But what is it about Magnus that hurts vampires?

Maybe I'm just over-thinking it and Molag Bal is just being Molag Bal by keeping vampires from ever seeing daylight again. Of course, when Clavicus Vile enters the picture...

That still makes no sense. Restoration magic isn't holy. It's just a school of magicka that manipulates life energy. Undead in Tamriel wouldn't be hurt by restorative magic any more than they'd be healed by destruction magic. There isn't anything about a healing spell that would hurt a zombie, because in Tamriel, a zombie is a corpse infused with a soul. Your character is also a body with a soul, and can be healed just fine. There's no "undead scale," as the reason healing hurts undead in other games is because healing spells are holy magic.