Can't remove TRoN, but it can be edited to add your doors.. though, you won't be able to edit the doors that are in the TRoN. Those doors connect the two worlds.
What it sounds like to me since it will connect between both worlds like Underdark does, it will have to be added to TRoN.
TRoN.esp is the mediator between worlds.

My suggestion to help you out (though I'm not sure exactly what you're doing), load the files Underdark.esm, TRoN.esp, and your .esp making sure that you activate your esp and work out of those files. Take care to not alter any doors and only create new doors, a good door to use might be the Melfzautoload door. If you want assistance or simply me to do it, send it over to me and I'll set it up. I'll have to test it anyway to make sure all connections are not going to create disappearing ground and other anomalies. ^^ Create how you want them to connect, document it so I know what you want and I'll make the connections. Most likely I'll be splitting the esp to merge... which means since it's accessing both worlds, kiss the independent add-on idea goodbye. Shadows of Old Shanatar will have to be a major update expansion to the ESM/ESP.


Keep in mind, if this work you're doing is part of the fungal lake material, in other words in the mod... your mod will absolutely need to be split. I will do the splitting, just create what you want and how you want it. Remember though, don't change TRoN, make your "new" doors and changes in your mod and I'll make necessary changes.

Well first, this isn't part of fungal lake, its a seperate unrelated .esp (Though I imagine I should set up the worldmap to fungal lake as well).

Second, I think I need to send it to you, cause I already [censored] around trying to make the connections myself. I'll tesfiles it, zip it, and e-mail it.

Basically what happens is when you go in a worldspace, it sets your world map. So when you go into Tamriel, it sets the worldmap to Tamriel. Any time you go into an interior, it freezes the map and map location.

So when you went from Tamriel into the underdark, it considered you inside a Tamriel dungeon still, freezing the Tamriel map in place. So no matter how far you went in the Underdark, you'd be in the same exact location on the Tamriel map.

What I was trying to do was take every ENTRANCE to the underdark (no need to do exit-onlys), and slide a transition cave between the doors.

The transition cave is a cave built in the UnderdarkWorld (worldspace) with the underdark map assigned. The cave itself is only a few pieces, very small (but could be expanded).

So by making the player go (briefly) through this extra cave transition, it updates the map real fast, setting it to Underdark.

I've got all the needed cave transitions set up in the worldspace, but the doors are [censored].

I have an idea for you to test that may save time on adding interior statics and getting lost amongst all the central inserted transitions.
I looked over the esp. The statics will have to go to the ESM and the transitions to TRoN.esp. If you only use Melfzautoload doors at the only references in the transitional world it would be much simpler. To test this and make this work, begin with BlackRockExterior entrance point and place a transitional door (MelfsAutoDoor - ref.1) in the transitional cell of TransUnderdark. Use only MAD statics. For the slider references you refer to, they will be 2 MAD references and they exit in the Underdark. Now this is the trick you need to test. In the slider cell, set both MAD doors close to each other but far enough to keep the yellow directional markers from making contact. Tamriel's connection point in the slider cell which is suppose to connect to reference one will connect to it but move it's arrival point (signified by the yellow marker) into the collision point of the MAD door #2 reference so that when the player is entering, he or she is also simultaneously exiting as well. Because there are no references in that cell, the load time should not be so noticeable. By actually entering and exiting you are essentially loading the map as well. I haven't tested this, but it seems logically sound and quick enough to test. If this doesn't work, then we'll have to modify TRoN and Underdark, but you will have to work it through a work esp.

The funny thing about this, I know it will work and we since the underdark has arrived because of planar manipulation crossovers via Viccy's story, we could also update the doors to portals with special effects in Tamriel.
I came upon this idea months back while working on some MAD placements and it also has a nice feature that when a player makes the transition the first time will be normal loading, but the second and subsequent changes will be almost instantaneous even if it's a large cell. Think of how we did the labyrinth ^^

Several months ago when ShadowLance began Veintaur, the city of dwarves, he and I were looking into lore. He on dwarves and I on Ched Nasad and mindslayers. Well, now that I'm working on the dwarves while Shadow works out the Underdark ingame map and I found myself at a dilemna. Do dwarven women have beards?

well... Shadow gave me this info and I thought I would post it here.

"Some female dwarves of Faer?n can grow beards. Some of these choose to shave their beards to match human-style expectations of beauty, while others glory in luxurious plaited beards that match their hair, or wear sharply cut goatees. Some wear beards in order to pass as males among the races of the surface lands."
"Some authors, such as R. A. Salvatore have at times had the female of the species grow beards as well, though the game rules' official position is that they do not."
hint: this is not an official rendering of WoTC:FR.
"..in the Forgotten Realms they generally grow full beards."

So it is up to us and personally, I think we should.

A.

As far as AD&D Forgotten Realms material, of which there are tons, beards on female dwarves are by far the norm, with shaving done mainly by those dwarven women living in elven or human cities and getting a little tired of the comments!

For many dwarves, male and female alike, their beards can signify status, or be a source of pride and honor. There is no part to their mindset that finds female beards to be odd or unattractive, no more than we should find it odd that both male and female humans have scalp hair.

Of all the fantastic things I've read in this thread, this is what finally garners a response? sigh.

Keep up the great work! Your artistic vision appeals greatly to me, and I look forward to the ever-expanding Underdark.

Sorry if this has been asked before, but I read that this mod is currently incompatible with LAME on the mod's download page on TES Nexus. Is there a way around this currently, or a way to keep LAME and skimp on the Drow's nifty spells? Nothing against the mod and the intended effect, I just find LAME to be too invaluable to disable for this. Thanks in advance.

Interesting little discussion. I think even LOTR mentions bearded female dwarves. My 2 pennies.

But RPG lore is, at the end of the day, from the point of view of Humans, because we`re the only ones that really do exist. Now If there were real bearded dwarf ladies reading this then there would be a case for having bearded lady dwarves everywhere, but there aren`t. For practical purposes (since only Humans will be seeing this), it`s better to have female dwarves beardless, though I guess you could have the odd incident of catching a female dwarf shaving one early morning!

And a bearded dwarf male kissing a bearded dwarf lady that looks practically identical doesn`t do much for aesthetics from the Human point of view!

Not a problem Metroid, we're going to fix the incompatibilities anyway as soon as possible.

Actually, that's a very good point to bring across Shield, aesthetically speaking, I suppose a bearded lady once in a while would be cool but all in all, might be good to just make them beardless as well. So, beards or no beards, well... both will probably be in. I guess it will be just on our own whims at the moment.

Certainly glad to hear that, but I'm still wondering if it's possible to use them both? Like, if I have LAME in the load order last, will that mean that LAME is used instead? (Without any terrible problems, that is.)

Aoikani,
Wow, this looks great!
But really, the HUGE files put me off from downloading it. Especially from Tesnexus with the slow download speeds.
I would really love to download this... but don't want to spend forever doing it.
It would be great for http://www.gamesas.com/bgsforums/index.php?showtopic=1040373&st=0&gopid=15119485&#entry15119485
Would you think about uploading it into the beta in a month?
The conversation HAS slowed down on the thread, but thats because the website is getting a lot of work right now.
And if the motto turns you away, he is going to change it. Its referring to a quote a few years back you've probably never heard of.
I really would like to download this, but I've been so busy of late, I don't have the time.

Yes, and without any terrible problems

Sorry I did not respond quickly, I've been working a lot lately.

I dropped a response for you at the link Dudish. I think it's a good idea considering Underdark is so large, however the whole devteam needs to discuss whether we should or not considering we're in a constant update mode. Which is a good thing.

Aoikani

Excellent. Time to download. And I don't mind the wait. Thank you.

Its not that I don't MIND the wait, but I've recently started college and am almost always busy.

I know that sentiment.

Got your email. I'm on another computer. I'm close to Beta right now. I won't officially release until the population is done so keep me posted. Even if it's just minimal it would be okay.

What would really be nice is if I could put the swordsmith in an actual shop but it isn't required.

Well I do have an actual shop, but it would also be nice to have signs and other things as well. However, I'll have a minimal soon.

Fast approaching 5000+ interior custom designed cells for Underdark

:bolt:

ok

well it feels like it!

Sign should read: Kurthos' Swords if you so choose. It can wait for the post beta release. One more test/debug pass through and it should be ready for beta. I need to polish the encounter with Stoker's father. His defenses aren't dropping when I have the sword equipped. I'll figure it out. Perhaps a couple voice lines here and there need to be plugged in. I also need to finish the quest logs. Without them most people would be completely lost.

cant wait... =)

Ok, I'm reading your post and wondering what in the world are you talking about :rolleyes:

then I realized what sign you're talking about. :facepalm:

good idea, but I'll need to do some texturing for it though. rofl, thought you were posting in the wrong thread for a moment. ^^

I think you guys don't get enough appreciation for this mod, so for the record... I appreciate it. And all of Sulteric's mods that plug into it, now and future.

Thanks!

I've been watching you guys. Consider yourselves encouraged. :clap:

:clap: