Actually the new dominion has occupied Valenwood and it's driving wood elves east... so now it's basically Altmer alone against the rest of the world

One thing to remember about supremacists- sometimes they win. It'd be interesting if the Thalmor do to the Bosmer or some other race what happened to the Orcs.

I thought the Daedra where just those who weren't involved in the creation of the material world?

From what I've seen they consider the Bosmeri cousins and have no intentions of harming them. They are accepted in the Dominion.

So does that mean that joining the Stormcloaks is the best way to help mankind in skyrim?

The Thalmor we encounter are likely what's known in our world as "Fringe elements".

It's said that any Altmer we've seen in the past games wouldn't even be considered a true High Elf by the Summerset Altmer; apparently leaving the homeland automatically made them rejects and outcasts and stray sheep. Simply from the fact that they *were* in the game we can assume that they didn't share the ideology and inclinations of the "real" Altmer on Alinor.


Not at all. The Thalmor themselves are an extremist fringe element that has become mainstream; if anything the ones we see in Skyrim are *less* likely to represent the most extreme and fringe-aspects of their culture.

This thread is full to bursting point with people have have literally no prior idea about lore, and not the slightest inkling of what they're talking about.

The Altmer claim that they need to destroy man isn't cult mumbo-jumbo, it's confirmed knowledge. The Dwemer tried something similiar, and got wiped out for it. The difference is, this time the Altmer are successful. People who claim the Altmer can never reach their goals should remember that the Altmer have already won through their defeat of numidium and there revokation of Talos. The Altmer took on the entire world at once and managed to force them into a defeating treaty. The Altmer have the numbers, experience, patience and skill-at-arms to win out against man.

The Altmer went through a minor phase where the youth rejected the old Altmer heritage of immortality and so on, but that's gone. At this point, we can tell from books like Rising Threat that Alinor is completely united behind the Thalmor. Also, the Bosmer are honoured cousins of the Altmer, and they work together through the Dominion.

Couldn't you potentially have Orcs (as an elven race) join the Thalmors' side as well? I'm asking more if the lore has support for this.

Right now I'm playing an Orc, but I'm leaning towards anti-Thalmor/Empire because of the anti-man trends and because they don't believe in Talos, a fellow dragonborn, and likewise probably wouldn't believe in me, the current dragonborn, as well.

On future playthroughs, I'm not sure how I'll play someone that will join their side unless it's a crazy Altmer, power hungry wizard.

That all depends on your perspective on the matter; what's the best way to put down the Altmer? Keep the Empire together and hope that somehow united Man can prevent their plan from coming to fruition, or divide up the Empire in the hopes that Skyrim can remain sovereign against the Thalmor? Of course that's a generalization but you get the point.

The thing is, the Empire doesn't want this either; the state it is in now is a result of a defeated treaty.

Edit:: I've also wondered about the Thalmor perspective on the beast races. The Khajiit and the lands of Elsweyr were supposedly created shortly after the creation of the mortal plane, and the Argonians are a wild-card. Perhaps I've overlooked something obvious but I would think that would mean that Khajiit, at the least, would also need to be "destroyed", if evidence of mortality was to be erased?

Correction, the Hist are a wild-card. However, from what is known, they're neutral, unless provoked. In which case, they'll utterly destroy you and your home 1000 years down the road at the earliest.

Though, I am inclined to believe they'd see the destruction of Mundus as a bad thing.

The Hist are potentially a wild-card with regards to Altmer feeling towards them, which I think is what Squiver meant.

I wonder if they *would* care that Mundus is destroyed? Hasn't it been theorized that they're remnants from an earlier Kalpa? If they survived one, they might survive another.

Elves have an extremely high opinion, so pretty much.


Also, where do Dunmer stand with the Thalmor?

Against. They just hate everyone and anyone.

I have to disagree here, the Altmer have the numbers and experience? From what I understand, the Altmer have a slower birth rate than man kind and for the most part, the Altmer haven't half the combat experience of the manish races. History hasn't been kind to the Mer via military exploits.

Wait, if the Bosmer are honored cousins then why did Aldmeri invade Valenwood? What is the true stance of the Bosmer in regards to Thalmor?

With the Bosmer being close to nature arnt they more tied to the mortal plane?

The Thalmor will pay soon enough.

They are considered honored cousins, but really this just seems farce, considering I have yet to see a Bosmer have a important position in the Thalmor beyond what could basically pass off as a servant.

In the dawn, there were a great many spirits, and these spirits were immortal so long as they properly navigated change, the fluctuating conflict between IS and IS NOT. Then Lorkhan (aka Shor or Shezzar) came around and proposed a plan to make this navigation easier. The other spirits, tired of the way things had been going, agreed to his plan. But oh no! It was a trick! The spirits who participated in Lorkhan's plan were trapped, and died. The greatest of these spirits had been anchored in place, and remained dead, their corpses being used to support the prison of the lesser spirits. These lesser spirits became Mortals.

Some of these mortals stayed in place, built cities, and tried to remember what it had been like to be immortal and free. Others wandered the world, and came to accept their fate. Those who stayed in place became the elves, long-lived, eternally healthy, and capable of great mythic constructions. Those who wandered became short-lived barabaric men, saved only by the grace of their prison warden, who loved them dearly.

The Altmer wish to destroy the prison, and make everyone immortal again. Mankind wants to have fun in the cage, and maybe see if they can't learn some lessons from their incarceration. To do this, they need to completely destroy Lorkhan. The strongest aspect of Lorkhan is Talos, and so their first step is destroying him. Once they succeed in destroying Lorkhan and freeing all spirits from the prison of the mundus, mankind, defined as "the short-lived races who support Lorkhan and enjoy life on mundus" will be impossible. You can't be a short-lived immortal, you can't support something that doesn't exist, and you can't enjoy life in a place that isn't. This will, from the Altmeri perspective, actually benefit the souls of humanity. Everyone will become immortal when the mundus is destroyed.


The Altmer actually have a vastly superior breeding capacity. Their breeding rates are kept in check by their eugenics program, but were it not for that, their normal fertility, combined with their massive period of fertility (several hundred years vs, several decades) would allow them to flood the world with golden children. Of course, the Thalmor will never do this, but it is theoretically possible. And it was only during the 4,000 year period of Mannish Empire that the men have had a good record against Mer. Before and after that, Mer kicked massive butt.

I am no expert on the subject - but the talk of freeing oneself (from nature) and emancipation through action, ideas as concepts and a (national) spirit - sound to me very much like some of the writing of the German philosophers of the romantic era (Herder, Fichte, Hegel etc)...

The Pocket Guide is the only source (that I know of) to mention Altmer Eugenics and its filled to the brim with mannish propaganda. At that, I can name four merish civilizations to be felled by man and not a single manish civiliation to fall at the hands of mer. The Falmer were driven to their current state, the Raga whiped out the Left Handed Elves, the Heatland Elves were destroyed and forced out and then theres the Dinerri (never spell that right) who were driven out by the Nords. Even the Altmer sought man's help at turning the tide of the Maomer against them.

I see little kickassery from the mer.

edit: On top of that, I could have sworn I read somewhere that mer had a slower birth rate, having a max of just four children in their entire lifespan.

There's far, far, far more to warfare than just numbers. The Aldmeri Dominion used superior tactics than the Empire, and more or less ripped the Empire to shreds. Their soldiers kicked ass, no longer fighting like an old woman. The Empire was no longer what it was during the time of Tiber Septim. Even then, Tiber needed a giant robot to defeat the Dominion. Before attacking, they claimed Valenwood and Elsewyr.

The power balance does not stay the same.

Look at real life to see how rapidly the power balance changes.

I'm not saying that they weren't capable, but this attitude about the Thalmor and the Dominion being super badass's is just not cutting it for me. They had great initial gains, and then were being turned back while a war weary Empire instead of pushing them back into the sea gave up. Tiber's need of Numidium was because it was the most tactically sound approach instead of beating his Empire against a strong fortified position and a people who die for every centimeter of Summersets soil. It was not because they were super powerful, but because Tiber knew that once backed into a corner in their natural element it would be too costly to opt for an invasion.

Elves make me want to punch something. Anyone else get this?

I agree with this. See also: Hiroshima