I actually think that might be the opposite of the truth. Historically, the most powerful men have always risen from chaos and desperation. Pelenial didn't come from a unified society. The Thalmor can infiltrate and manipulate organizations, but can they infiltrate and manipulate a band of barbarian freedom fighters? There's a chance that the empire could string together a military victory over the elves if they unify, but that'd be a real struggle. If they can summon another killer robot, that's it, and they're going to win.

Fractured Tamriel has united in the face of overwhelming threats before. Akivir, the Sload ect. why should the Thalmor who have genocidal tendencies be any different? If there anything man hates in general more than each other, its elves.

Problem is that these elves aren't an overt threat. With the exception of the Great War, they're not attacking, but rather pulling stings behind the scenes, assassinating people, etc. Most people don't realize that they're a threat because they're so underground.

But the Sload are the only time that a long-unified empire succeeded in repelling a serious threat. Men are kinda like Poland: they're way better at fighting after their state has been destroyed. Tamriel's history has a cycle where men are divided and weak, then a great hero arises from the chaos. That hero unites mankind, and then after that hero dies, united mankind finds itself unable to deal with its troubles. Mankind's forces fall apart, things become chaotic again, and then another hero rises up.

Mankind could unify and fight off the Altmer. It's possible. But they could truly lose if they follow this path. If mankind sets itself back to pre 1st era standards, I don't think they could lose. The mundus is on their side for so long as they worship Talos / Shor / Whatever. It seems like Titus II's strategy is to accept the religious mandates and focus on using this opportunity of peace to rebuild his strength. That's not very good.

Yes, I will. They want Mundus to exist. They want Man and the iniquity Talos removed. They want Time to flow freely, without measure. That is not to say they want the World-Eater to succeed. On the contrary, for the World to be devoured again brings them further down the rabbit hole than they want to dive. They are the bird in the egg, and the serpent is coiled around and hungry. This is what they are trying to avoid.

Thalmor does not want to eat it to become it.

I didn't quite get that from the text. I got A.) remove Talos b.) Remove man C.) Remove World D.) Return to before the Dawn.

Yes, Mundus before the Dawn, when Time was not measured. Alduin is not their Auri-el. They do not want Alduin to win!

When it speaks about the world of the mortals being over and them returning to the imperishable spirit seems to contradict that.

It sounds like desperation. The believers of this writing think that if they can remove Talos from existence, as in erase him from history completely, they will be able to break the Wheel and kill Nirn. Somehow they think that Man and Talos are the only things keeping Time anchored, and if they break the Wheel, they'll all become immortal again, before the Merethic when they were all freshly congealed spirits.

Insane desperation can do awful things to the world. The Marukhati Selectives were desperate for theosoexistential, and they ripped up Akatosh in the process. The Marukhati Selectives were only a small cult and not even trying to destroy the Wheel, and look what they accomplished. The Thalmor are a state sponsored nationalistic power house of magical and theosophical knowledge with the motives and reckless abandon to tear the Wheel apart. Very very dangerous.

What part about Mundus before the Dawn isn't clear?

Let me correct myself: Convention, not Dawn. The Dawn Era is infinite. Convention is the first real moment in history.

Alduin cycles time. Sure, he's the end, but he's also the beginning. The Thalmor don't want the next Kalpa to start. They want to do something much more meaningful and grand than what Alduin does.

At least, that's how I think of it. The Thalmor didn't seem to be the least bit supportive of Alduin, contrary to what I had expected before I played the game.

edit: nvm, irritated me a bit.

I've always thought they didn't like Mundus, in fact, time wasn't bound until the creation of Mundus and the sacrifice of the Eight. There can be no Mundus if they are to remain in their spiritual essence.

I don't think there is a real easy answer for this. A united Empire would be stronger against the Thalmor but you have the chance that they become nothing more then puppets. Many people in Skyrim will still hate them, many people in Hammerfell will as well, I can't imagine everybody in High Rock being pleased with them either. A united Empire is impossible at this moment. Hammerfell can't join the Empire because of the peace treaties, I can't imagine High rock being very pleased with the Empire either and besides with Hammerfell between them and Cyrodiil it's a real question if they will be capable of helping out the Empire with any significant number of troops. So at best a surviving Empire would be, Cyrodiil, Skyrim and a few forces from High Rock.

Should Skyrim however become independant then they could perhaps join the fight with Hammerfell and kick the Dominion out of there, creating a sort of alliance if not new empire of men which could then with luck have High Rock join them, and basically force their own policies down upon the Imperial City, and forcing that province to join with them as well. However this would entirely depend on the policy of the leaders, their willingness to help others and their ability to understand the Thalmor threat.

Neither option is really good, when siding with the Empire, you will at best create a situation where a weak state can perhaps stand against the dominion or perhaps turn more and more into dominion puppets until the dominion is ready to strike and end the Empire once and for all. When siding with the stormcloacks you could create a new future, or you could create a independent uncaring nation leaving each nation to fend for itself.

Then what on earth is this?

"The Dragon of Cyrodiil is bound in stone, and in time, The Dragon of the North will no longer be." - Boethiah's Summoning Day

"The Dragon will uncoil his hold on the stagnancy of linear time and move as Free Serpent again, moving through the Aether without measure or burden." - Altmeri Commentary on Talos

Regarding your post on the other thread, there seems to be a major contradiction between Boethiah's post/MK's Alduin posts and the Alduin arc in the game (rather ala Dragonfires vs. Towers in Oblivion. Seems it always takes them/us a full game to get the last game's Lore tied up). One has Alduin quite patently as a god/part of the Kalpa cycle. The other has him as a mundane lord of the flying lizards. I think you may be on to something with the notion that somehow Alduin becomes the Alduin-god. We know that at the end of the game he is attempting to build his strength... and somehow it would appear that this end of Kalpa process does not get far, if the benchmark goal is Alduin gaining enough strength to destroy/consume Skyrim, and later Nirn.

My only guess is that Alduin, lord of the lizards, somehow becomes Alduin, lord of the gods, through mantling, as you stated, and that we disrupted the process very, very early. We don't have much else to go on right now, however.

I wish we could have a little more time to actually play the game before jumping into these discussions. Granted, I've had most of it spoiled for me by now so I could probably argue anyway, but discussions would be far more productive once more than a handful of us have played through the game and had time to digest the information.

I ate the noodles early, rapidly, and in large amounts. Unfortunately, I lack the willpower to prevent myself from finishing the digestive process and releasing my ideas into the world.

Sorry about the spoilers though.

I'm not exactly sure how many spoilers we are allowed to share here? Because the end of the Dark Brotherhood main quest actually has something relevent to the war between Skyrim/Empire and Empire/Thalmor.

Oh yeah...I didn't think about the DB ending..

Oh god the Empire really is royally [censored].

I heard about the DB ending and it's even now part of the Lore in USEP. As an Imperial and a Empire loyalist, I can agree that we are [censored]!

Rebellion, Thalmor, and the Dark Brotherhood...doing stuff. Yeah, I'm about certain the Thalmor are going to murder us all.

Honestly, its time to leave Tamriel, might take Jarl Elisif with me. This is why I never joined the Stormcloaks and DB, the fools!

Yeah..I honestly see no way we can win against the Thalmor now, unless they magically disappear like the Dwemer.

Looking at their aims, they seem to be going down that path, Maybe they'll try to make themselves a God.

If that happens, you know you're screwed. Remember, it's the dwarves magical disappearance that created the most powerful weapon in existence.

Thalmor need to annihilated as soon as possible.