I knew it. What bad guy wouldn't want to kill a teenager who has no experience in the wasteland?

My view on Ceasar's Legion- Whats the point in saving humanity while you lose your humanity in the process.

My view on NCR- They are a mirror image of the United States. <-------Thats not a completely good thing, or a bad thing.


My view on your view of the BoS in Fallout 3. Whats wrong with the BoS being the good guys?

My view on the BoS in general- Their goals made sense when the world was first nuked. But now civilization is growing, and taking tech away isnt helping antying. The BoS on the east coast were at least doing something to help the common man. The west coast BoS is doing nothing to help humanity. Stealing a few plasma rifles, and other weapons from travelers isnt going to stop them from killing eachother.

People began picking apart the ruins of Los Angeles for scraps to rebuild civilization long before the Super Mutants were created. The Hub was already a large trading center only 70 years after the Great War and before the rise of the Master. In fact, the Hub was founded and began trading with other settlements just 16 years after the Great War. Harold became a caravan boss 19 years after the Great War.

If they had set FO3 either in a more isolated area that didn't have a lot of cities to salvage or if they had set it 30 or 40 years after the war then their situation would be totally understandable but that's not what they did. They set the game in DC, which had a ton of old world tech and knowledge for people to salvage, maybe even more than LA, and they set it 200 years after the war.

The 200 year old skeletons? Most skeletons in FO3 seem to be of people who died in the apocalypse and the immediate aftermath so no those buildings are not occupied when the raiders moved in....which makes them scavengers with a leather fetish and the bodies decorating raider buildings are available from Moira at Megaton.

FO3 is kinda weird in that the four 'Caravaners' are mobile shops (and should be prime targets for raiders) and the scavengers are static poorly stocked shops, aside from the wanderering scavengers who dont want to talk to you.

Maybe you should stick to arguing that the FO3 version of Raiders wasn't poor and refrain from giving me personal advice. :wink_smile:



Yeah, the thousand of INDIVIDUAL raiders did a great thing as a team



Then why are you continuing to argue that the FO3 Raiders weren't poor and shallow compared to the NV version on a New Vegas Discussion thread?

Again, no data.......so we have no idea how many were being produced, althrough the DC region was supposedly unoccupied for most of those 200 years, until settlers moved back into the area. So no two centuries of production, and if the vault produced large numbers of supermutants pre arrival of the BoS then the Supermutants should have overrun the area with ease due to the limited number of settlement and the thousands of dis-organised individual Raiders who somehow arrived in the area.



Since there is no FEV in the Capitol building, nor any mention of it any of the locations they have set up shop they have no chance of finding a new source of their version of the FEV......all of the FO3 mutants are of the same less intelligent strain, they make west coast dumb-dumbs look like einsteins.



Maybe If I go slowly.......

Big MERCENARY companies, need financing (Reilly's Rangers are tiny by comparison) which takes a lot of caps which is never explained, referenced or even hinted at in the game, they are just there with a personal grudge against the player and fighting supermutants




It says 'somebody' hired them to kill you if your good, they can also be hired to kill you if you disarm the nuke......it says absolutely zero about how or why somebody financed them to destablise DC, which they aren't doing anyway, killing Supermutants actually helps EBoS to stabilise DC.



Again, then how are they destabilising the wasteland?




Also they enjoy killing neutral and evil fellows.



They could have been hired by tooth fairy to collect teeth for her tooth mountain.........that statement had about the same number of facts to back it as yours....the only Chinese in the Fallout games are the settlement in FO2 and the ghouls in FO3.




There is no lore at all dealing with Talon Company, they are just there and personally if it isn't in the game it isn't lore.

Guides often have incorrect stuff in them.....one out of the NV Guide, the location for unique hunting shotgun is wrong.

There is no information in game about the Talon Company in game, they are just in DC without no apart reason except to fight Supermutants which is helping to stabilise the region.

All this arguing about the Talon Company seems pointless, they are there to fight you. If you need to know the entire history of every piece of rubble in a game world you are probably better off doing something besides playing video games.

Not really, the Fiends have cleared out the area so there is nobody left to raid, except for well fortified locations.....the medical clinc shouldn't really be still standing, but at least the followers have armed guards on site.



Its a nuclear bomb storage site.



There is no armoury on site, so apart from weaponry to arm a security force to guard the bombs, there isn't likely to be tons of weaponry and ammo.....especially when DC has both a large military base and a National Guard Armoury (which does have a weapons stockpile).



The only 'Caravans' referenced in the game (FO3) are the four NPC ones, they are the only ones referenced in the game by the Mayor of Canterbury Commons who organised them....so no there are no other caravans roaming the DC wastes, until EBoS starts running water caravans.

There are no hints, references or even wild speculations that Raiders even go near any settlement in the game never mind it being heavily implied.




When do the Ghouls say the Supermutants venture into Underworld?

All I can remember is being told that the Supermutants leave Ghouls alone, hell they might not be bright enough to know Ghouls are human.....they are dumb, really really dumb.

No, its not rocket science........its biology, very advanced biology at that.




They are a game mechanic....good get Talon, bad get Regulators......Reilly's Rangers are mercs, they are being paid to scout the ruins of DC and kill Supermutants. The Talon Company just seem to kill Supermutants and the (well try to) Lone Wanderer, even if no one is paying them to do so.





Bye, Bye.

Well no they are there to fight you if you're good or if you stumble across them by accident.....huge waste of potential.

Isn't that what many people are complaining about with NV (beside the bugs), the lack of 'the entire history of every piece of rubble in a game world'............NV traded depth of random game world locations, for depth of factions and their locations.

Seems to me that they both did a fantastic job. When I look back at what all obsidian did it seems like they read too many of yalls post. A problem bioware had with mass effect as we all saw with the planet scaning. Generally people online are more relaxed and easy to fight for a point in a dogmatic kind of way.

I had a lot to do with the realism that actually went into new vegas. I spent a year making suggestions for fallout 3. Maybe that's why I didn't cry about zoo much on this one cause I got my way. I got my hardcoe switch, and 65% of my suggestions actually went in and I guarantee you 100% of them were actually concidered and carefully read. That's a good thing but the fact that they couldn't come up with the seeming simple things I and many others suggested is aggravating at best. Customizable guns yes my suggestion for customizing armor though huge support and months before we knew anything like pictures didn't go in. A more realistic and overall renaissance that me and many others called for happened.
You can all sit here and fight but did any of you try to help? Not all the things you suggest might not go in either cause you didn't research well enough or it was already discussed but at least you try and make the game closer to that gold. Please don't take this the wrong way guys but I've green reading these and not once have I seen how you would fix the bugs or how you would make survival in the waste more realistic.
since I did help I actually see fnv as a big improvement. Think about what I said.

Well, yes thats the impression you get, isn't it?
But game machanics aside you start to wonder what exactly is their justification from a plot angle.
That's where FONV indeed did do a better job.

Whether raiders or Talon company, unfortunately they are only cannon-fodder without any real way to interact.
Everytime I went to Evergreen Mills in FO3 I wondered why they didn't do more with this place, as it has so much potential and obviously a lot of work went into it.

Who knows, maybe they originally had plans to flesh out the factions more but didn't have the time in the end.
Or it was planned for a possible DLC that never saw the light of the day.

Remember raiders in FO3? Mindless sadistic maniacs without purpose etc. And in the same very world there are beggars for water at the gates of every town and amidst desert.
Remember FO3's quest where you had to collect N nuka-caps for a girl to like a boy? That is in a post-nuclear war, in the middle of nowhere, in an area surrounded by packs of deathclaws.
Remember that idiotic super-heroes wannabes?
etc. etc. etc.

FO3 was cartoonish, illogical, extremely poorly written, cheap, and full of bad taste jokes and cliches - most of those things are "fixed" in FNV. Because some talented and dedicated people worked on it.

In other words, FNV showed us what FO3 should have been. And to me personally it showed how many flaws of FO3 I did close my eyes upon because of "I want to believe" thing.

It was never cartoonish. They had moments in fallout when what you do really resonates with you. Granted after I blew up megaton it was a little weird to still help moira.

As I explained fallout is exactly what we suggested in thousands of threads. So you people who didn't help cannot talk bad about nv when u just sit there and criticize.

But weren't F3 fans mostly *complaining* that NV doesn't have this kind of "rubbish skeletons and rubble with entire history"? :facepalm:

Well for starters the Talon Company is far more significant than a piece of rubble. They're one of only a handful of organized human factions in the entirety of the Capital Wasteland. They have multiple bases, seemingly a large number of troops and are actively involved throughout the gameworld. Yet the game never bothers to explain why they exist, what their motivations are, or even give an opportunity for interaction with them outside of combat.

The other major thing is we're not discussing video games in general. To use an example I recall reading on this board a few days ago I don't expect for the mushroom people in Mario to be explained. I expect a bit more out of a faction in something that purports to be a Fallout game. If the Khans in Fallout 1 had just been an inherently hostile bunch of raiders you have to fight through to rescue Tandi would Fallout have been the same? How about if Set had just been a named ghoul you could kill when sweeping Necropolis? Or if the Children of the Cathedral were just generic cultists who all attacked you on sight? Why care about the Brotherhood of Steel's history or motivation since they're just there to provide you with cool endgame gear?

It's fine if you don't care about these things. We want different things out of games and I don't begrudge anyone their opinion but I expect more out of a Fallout game than don't think about it since "they're just there to fight you" and I think a lot of people would agree.

I thought they were awful game design as they weren't fleshed out and instead just placed there for the sake of being placed there. :rolleyes:

Which weakened the game, they occupied a couple of outposts (one near the quicky mart and one behind the library) and their homebase......I thought there would be a terminal to hack at some point (like Reilly's) giving you some basic info.....'mystery man says its in the Capitol building, clear out the freaks' or something, anything really but no, there just a tougher version of the Raiders unfortunately.

Edit: Well my FO3 GOTY (my back up copy of FO3) arrived so I'm finally going to try out Mothership Zeta.

The only problem I had with the Talon Company is believing so many people could have a black head and white body or vice versa.

Well it's an odd thing the game has a mature rating, but the boards here have quite a few young one's that can't have a advlt conversation........so you get thread opening posts saying more leveling now or this game stinks, I'm right an my friends aren't :rolleyes: as well as the "your just stupid for that opinion of yours"

Hey I'm not saying the minors are the only ones to blame :nono: cause there are foolish advlts everywhere you go to.....aahhh just my .02 lousy caps

bigcrazewolf

Well, it does go against what the game tries to do - create a living, breathing and detailed world. They just are, much like a lot of locations in Fallout 3. No connection to the mainstroy or a story of their own either - they're completely disconnected from everything that matters, yet they are given their own name and even specially tailored armors and they're littered around spots of interest as if they had a meaning other than just being there.

All that does affect the feel of the game (especially big games like these that at least try to take themselves seriously in their given setting).

I kinda liked the idea behind Talon Company, they could've well replaced the Enclave from big bad guys seat (for example), but they were so underplayed and underwritten that as they were, they were mere combatarmored raiders (which too were mere cannonfodder, instead of a choice for an evil player).

I really hope Talon Company is back for FO4 and more fleshed out that time around.
They have potential, don't make them generic enemy faction #24.

I personally assumed the Talon Company were either hired by the Enclave or were a sort of 'black ops' group for the Enclave who wanted the Capitol building as a symbol of their power and authority......it would have been good if they had been filled out with some actual background.