About true blood:



Keep up the good work madmole, and enjoy your break.

Just wanted to chirp in while this seems to be fresh, but who is to say the Rogues aren't intelligent? Who is to say the Covenant is for that matter? Being a vampire does not automatically make you smart and what have you. Between the two factions the difference really only seems to be that one side understands there is more then one way to achieve what you want (as well as direct and indirect ways to accomplish their goals), while the other side just wants to reap the rewards of power with little to no thought as to the consequences or the price of said power/rewards.

Another thing I wanted to mention is that if Madmole goes ahead with a Molag Bal plot, it would be no trouble at all to just say the Rogues could/would be easily manipulated into doing the bidding of whoever, be it Molag Bal or the 'leader' of the Rogues, simply by exploiting their thirst for blood. I mean, could have it so the Rogues at their core aren't able to control their thirst(s) and feed without thought to what they're doing; ex: feeding in public or frequently in the same city, or whatever general carelessness that the Covenant would not exhibit themselves. The Covenant are more civilized, for vampires, and are somewhat in control of their thirst, while the Rogues are unable to and as such they are not in total control of themselves. Just my two bits on this. I for one like the idea of Molag Bal's involvement more thena serum. A serum feels more Blade-esque then Elder Scrolls-centric. And who doesn't like Daedric Princes? bliviongate: Err.. well not counting the ppl that are terrorized by them. lol

On a side note, after reading this I immediately thought of Underworld: Rise of the Lycans. ha

"Molag Bal also has a daughter named Molag Grunda, a Winged Twilight who was in love with the lowly Frost Atronach Nomeg Gwai. Molag Bal did not approve of the relationship and had them both banished to Oblivion, so they could be punished for eternity. "

Sound familiar? ^.~

Elder Scrolls vampire fiction does use mist transforming vampires. From Immortal blood


Maybe have transforming into a mist switch you to a will-o-the-wisp kind of thing, where doing so will drain your magicka and fatigue down to zero. Maybe have you move faster than you would otherwise, but not invincible while in mist form.

Fair enough, sounds good. Maybe "intelligence" carries connotations you don't like. I was just thinking that Rogues are more prone to being manipulated to someone else's (Daedric is a good solution) own ends. Blood lust and quick power at recklessly unforeseen cost seems well in line with their style. Maybe "wisdom" or "cunning" or "insight" might be a better word to use than "intelligent." I wouldn't consider the rogues the wisest bunch, definitely more likely to be manipulated than the masterminds who run the covenant.

I'd say scenario B, although A is absolutely more spectacular, killing Molag Bal should have a great impact on the oblivion lore, because killing a daedric prince is kinda a big deal.

That's really no proof at all. One should be very carefull not to threat the ingame books as the ultimate thruth. Just because it's mentioned in an obviously story-like book doesn't make it true or false. Of course it's documentation like this that can add some special features and spice to a mod. I did it with Lamea Beolfag in StarX Vanilla Vampires Revised. Using lore from http://www.imperial-library.info/obbooks/lairvileopusculuslamae.shtml. Even this could be myth or not.

The only catch is you cannot kill a Daedra.

"A Daedroth's physical form can be ruined, but they cannot be truly killed; the soul or Animus of a slain Daedroth returns to the void of Oblivion until it manages to re-coalesce into a physical form again. Slaying a daedra is called "banishment" instead of "death" to reflect this. The proper singular form is "Daedroth", but that has come to refer to a specific species of Daedra"

Trying to be as objective as possible, these are the first things that pop into my head when I think of what I've seen of vampires in Oblivion and what I'd still want to see. Hopefully this might provide some quest or feature ideas that wouldn't be too hard to implement; I tried to think practically, but I'm not sure how practical it will sound to someone with coding experience.

--Immersion and animations. I loved what I saw in the videos, by the way. Vampirism isn't clean and invisible; it's messy, disturbing, seductive, taboo. It's supposed to be an unsettling experience outside the norms of humanity. A vampire mod to me just doesn't feel very effective without a visible bite--a crouch over sleeping prey, a pounce and grapple upon the neck of a stalked victim, a soft burying of the face in the sweet neck of willing prey. That visual confirmation of what you are is important; mods where you cast a spell to drain health make me feel like a magic user, not a vampire.

There should be a variety of ways to get what you want depending on your nature... to steal it silently, to tear it from the throats of your foes, to stimulate and seduce those who find you attractive, or to accumulate donations from the populace. Each choice should have its consequences--a 'mosquito' should have the easiest time of all, and the seduced or protected should be loyal but possibly possessive and prone to fits of jealousy, while a trail of bodies or an intimidated hamlet should at some point bring the hunters to your door.

--Hunters. Sympathetic hunters, fanatic hunters, grimly respectful hunters... that delicious feeling of hiding in plain sight doesn't really stick with you unless there are those few voices crying out into the stillness, trying futilely to warn the unknowing thousands. To have a dark, clandestine relationship with those who see you, hound you, and attempt to thwart your hunger is essential to feeling that you're a spider in the dark. Your choices as to how to deal with these hunters should matter--if you consistently slaughter, seduce, flee from, or spare your attackers, they should develop opinions about you. The more times you escape their grasp, or murder or confound their fellows, the more notorious you should become. And if they have no friends they've lost to your fangs and claws, they should not be able to muster as much hatred as otherwise. I want to get used to bandits failing to notice my swift-silent steps in the dark, then be surprised by the sudden arrow in my back; to realize organically that I'd become too arrogant in my assumed superiority over humans. I want my hunter to become the hunted as well--more so if it's deserved, and less so if it's not.

--Dark choices. I want to feel that I always have a choice, the possibility to be cruel, neutral, or kind... and I want it to be noticed somehow. If I kill non-violent creatures wantonly, I want to be hunted harder, hated and reviled. If I never kill anything that doesn't attack me first, and use my powers to protect the innocent from my own kind, I want even the hunters to be reluctant to take me down. And this could perhaps change my appearance and abilities; if I kill constantly I should become better at it, and if I try to heal and protect and save, maybe my physiology will change. Perhaps the sun and the gods will despise me less; perhaps my bite will numb pain instead of causing it. But if I refuse to feed at all, this should lead to the hunger mastering me instead of the other way around. Moments of mercy are key, to emphasize the darkness around you. It should always be the player's choice whether to be a monster, a dark angel, or something in between, but if that choice is to mean something then it must be rewarded; you must become more vicious, dangerous, and unholy or more controlled and less reviled. The fame rating could change based on how often you free cattle/kill your own kind/spare hunters/heal someone diseased or left to die by bandits using your hard-won blood, perhaps; you could be the cause of rumors that a dark protector roams the streets at night. And with enough distance between fame and infamy, perhaps a true monster's bite will cause enough pain (or even poison) that feeding on sleeping victims is no longer possible, while a gentle monster's bite will not do any extra damage to enemies (or will paralyze briefly?)

Emphasizing the costs and benefits of being unholy vs. torturously fighting to retain your humanity and balance your predatory needs is essential to the experience. Same with being a seductive and manipulative predator vs. being a creature of base cruelty, enjoying the fear of others. This is very immersive, seeing the effects of your choices transforming what you are.

--Cost. I don't want neverending blood banks as I've seen in some mods, I want weak and fragile mortals who can lose about the same amount of blood as a human (two pints) before dying or needing healing. That's part of the tragedy, part of what made the Vampire: the Masquerade pen and paper such a good roleplaying system--the fact that you may not have meant to kill that person, but you did... and that's how the loss of your human side begins, when you realize how easily you leave destruction in your wake regardless of your intentions. When you can't get that first life back, you weep bloody tears... but what about the life after that? The one after that? And on and on... It's so easy to begin to live as if they're ants, and it's no tragedy to crush something so small and insignificant between your jaws. It's the law of nature, the law of beast and prey. It's so much easier to just drain one body wherever you find it than to carefully take small amounts from the young and strong and healthy. Power and strength carry a blood price.

--Storytelling. It should always feel like you're living in a fluid world... things are changing, moving as you act and interact. There are always eyes out there, watching you from the darkness. If you don't conform to their will, perhaps you should be forced to actively avoid those more powerful than you.

--Dark romance. Sensuality and sensation are so much a part of the vampire myth. If you feel your humanity slipping away, at times you will use what you have left of it to grasp what you can. You will reach out to the six you're attracted to in a lost attempt to clutch and to save. And there should be dimensions, choices... will you gather a male, female, or mixed-gender harem of slaves? Would you wish to be adored by a new mortal each night, each week, or to gather a crowd of jealous lovers to fight--with words, deeds, swords, or magic--to win the right to be yours this evening? Or will you choose one beautiful, caring mortal (who is either immune to your powers or whom you spare from your mind control) to share your secret and sacrifice his or her blood to your hunger? The temptation to take whatever you want simply because you can is immense. Do you still respect the freedoms of others, or will you grow jaded and leave a trail of broken hearts and bloodied bodies? And even if you mean well, can you resist the temptation to turn your lover instead of watching them die of old age? If you do resist, what will happen if your enemies discover your powerless mortal beloved?

The situation grows even more interesting, perhaps, if you choose to play Romeo and Juliet with a hunter, each of you transgressing the boundaries of your respective worlds, trying to overcome your wary mistrust of the other. Perhaps this stalking game finally culminates when you can no longer resist one another--or when your hunter can no longer live with allowing you to live, forcing you to kill them.

Well, in closing, I'm very much looking forward to this mod, and if you're ever looking for female voices I'd probably audition. Though you're right that it's impossible to please everyone, based on the features I've read about and seen in the videos I think this mod will suit my preferences very well, and that it is extremely faithful to the classic vampiric feel, which will add a whole new dimension to the game. I was ultimately quite disappointed by the Terran Vampires mod because it felt too much like VtM, and not just VtM but a bit of a copy of the CRPG as well. I had hoped for unique new characters and a streamlined-for-Oblivion system as well as a dark and rich atmosphere, but that mod was too focused on politics and cool powers. There were so many clans that it felt almost pointless to choose, and you couldn't exactly say there was a rich tapestry of quests and interactions. Past the initial quest, it fell pretty flat for me. I just didn't really enjoy continuing. I was thus delighted when I heard about this mod.

I like the idea of the rogues being normal, personally; one of the best ideas of VtM was always that the true horror is not what the vampire becomes, but what the vampire is--[b]human.[/i] Despite the monster that you are, you always had a choice, but you sink deeper and deeper into rationalizations, telling yourself that you're better than a human when in fact you are becoming more like a frighteningly intelligent but utterly rabid animal. The fact that the player might start out feeling sympathetic, being careful, and then end up just draining carelessly due to convenience is an extra layer of connection with your vampire--you feel the temptation to lose your compassion, to see it as merely a vessel. I think it would actually be interesting if you start out giving the player the Blade II "they're a different kind of creature than we are, it's safe to be a covenant vampire" impression, then pull the twist that the drugs they take that "slowly transform" them and consume their humanity are placebos which have no real effect on vampires--their condition is actually a result of releasing the predator within, and every covenant vampire could become as monstrous if they didn't adhere to a code! Realizing that if you didn't direct your hunger you could become exactly as hideous what you've been fighting is, I think, a good way of adding an extra layer of horror to what you already are. Here you had thought you were higher than these monsters, but if let go of your self-control--embrace the chaotic, mindless, predatory instinct and allow it to consume your free will--then you would be no different than any of them. (To become a rogue, you could acquire a new power called "embrace the monster" where you black out and wake up with a pile of corpses around you; you let the predator take over and gorged yourself far past simple nourishment and you are beginning to change.)

Very glad you're working on this, and thank you. One quick question--will the feeding through dialogue feature an animation? Like, after you exit dialogue, you pull the person to you and press your face into their neck in first and/or third person?
Also, an idea--telepathy could allow for voice without lip-synching. Maybe some vampires are able to speak to you directly; a small effect placed on the file with an audio program could simulate a mind-voice, or even just acting. I'm not sure if this would actually save you some work, but just in case, I thought I'd mention it.

Wynne,


btw, the version of TV u played is the very basic spine of the mod as a finished version was never released (i.e no quests, really no dialogue, no factions, very few architecture, etc.)

people keep complaining that TV didn't have any quests, or too many clans with too little definition, etc. etc....but it's a year-and-a-half old BETA. Not until a couple months ago did i pick it up to finish it and fix all these problems. I'm thinking about getting the mod removed from TES since people don't seem to understand that what they are downloading is outdated, and very unfinished rough draft.

You post was requesting a lot of features from VtM which i'm pretty sure is exactly what this mod is not about. I may be wrong, but i think madmole wants a new take on vampires.

Hopefully this post didn't come off as aggressive, but i am getting a bit sick of people complaining about missing features in outdated/unfinished work as if it was a final version. I would love to hear all your complaints about TV in the TV thread so i can make sure to try and fix them , but it seems like half the posts in the Unholy Darkness threads are critiques of TV...which belong in the TV thread. :foodndrink: How can i fix something if you don't tell me it's broken? :slap:

More on topic however, i would worry about animations last, because for me at least i can just use my imagination I mean VE in morrowind was all dialogue and i absolutely loved it and never felt an animation was necessary. Oh, and i too am for option B, in regards to the rogue thing :goodjob:

Your post did come off as a bit aggressive. The maker of this mod said what you quoted, then relented a bit later in the thread because those requests are motivating and it's hard to keep yourself going. I know from experience that that is true; that it can be hard to keep going and finish mod work, especially if you have real life issues to contend with or simply a short attention span before you get a new idea you want to work on, and I have had many troubles with both. If my suggestions aren't interesting to madmole, then I completely understand, but maybe there was something in there that could be used or could inspire good ideas. Regardless, they were not suggestions I made to you and I didn't pompously demand of madmole that they be followed or I wouldn't download the mod and I'd tell my mom or something. I only tried to be objective, to mix together everything I loved of what I'd read, played, seen, etc. I'm very well aware that few modders have much time on their hands, and that their work is a product of love for what they're doing. I'm not going to be a demanding puffed-up peacock. Mods are a luxury which should be appreciated.

I'm aware of the problems with the original T.V. and why they exist. But they still exist, and I don't see the harm in mentioning them when I had an experience with them. They are simply the reasons I found the original mod unfulfilling, and from what I've seen of your new website it seems like the ideas are still too ambitious and complex to be as well implemented as I would hope (VtM itself had its flaws) and too similar to Bloodlines, which I loved but don't really see the value of implementing in Oblivion. (I played Bloodlines an embarrassing amount of times, so Jack and Damsel are not new characters to me.) I would still gladly give the mod a look in the future, but that is my impression at the current time. I had thought about offering suggestions, but in my experience, few people are willing to veer from a direction that they've already invested a lot of time and effort in--that may be why you're having the frustrating problem of people complaining in this thread and not yours, because some are not aware and those that are aware think you've already decided what you want to do. If you tell me that's not the case, and it's not too late for give constructive criticism about the general direction of the mod, then I would gladly throw in my two cents... I'm certainly long-winded and opinionated enough.

Personally, I think you should choose a new name for your mod, or at least call it Revised Terran Vampires, or Terran Vampires Reimagined instead of just 2.0, in order to alert users who stumble across your version that what you're putting out is a finished product made by different and probably rather more motivated people. If you did the work, you should get the credit for your part in it.

My post requested almost nothing from VtM if you read it closely. It mentioned some of VtM's flavor and spirit, that's it. I didn't ask for clans, politics, varying powers, or most of what comes from the system. VtM is an influence, a very small part of the world of vampiric fiction, but it had some great ideas about putting flesh on the bones of the vampire, so to speak. But in truth the struggle between humanity and monster has always been a part of the vampire myth past the time of the penanggal, the manananggal, and the nukekubi. Even the hideous Nosferatu was tempted by passion. Merit would have preferred to stay a college student rather than a ninja-esque Sentinel of her house. Louis just couldn't see past his tortured self-hatred into a new way of life. And Bill... love redeemed him in a way, but he was already feeling the pangs of repentance long before he met her, she just showed him the light in practice.

VtM is a great influence, but it shouldn't be more than a general guideline. (Hell, the Salubri were the most interesting clan in the entire thing, and they got practically no attention at all in canon.) I love the system, and it was revolutionary, but there's a lot more out there. Every story should have its own flair.

now now let us not argue, both of you have good points. Even I have been guilty of mentioning TV on this thread, sorry for that BadCo. its new version will be a great tribute to the vampire world I'm sure. as for all your requests or hopes Wynne. Madmole is putting a lot of work into quests with multiple endings I believe so I'm sure there will be a path for everyone. He has also mentioned hunters coming after you if you are an "open" vampire. So your choices will definately depict how you will have to play and how you depict yourself as a vamp. The different clans will also attribute to the lifestyles as well. I also believe an attack animation was being worked on as well as you can see the death sequence in one of his videos. I did not read all of your post because I'm being lazy but I hope that helps you out a little. :icecream:

ah, i see now. sorry for the misunderstanding


yes please! Actually, i've had several people mention that keep the names "Jack", "Damsel", etc. dulled the mod, so they are being replaced :goodjob:
i really do take all criticism in with an extremely open mind and part of the fun in modding is impressing/pleasing the community

BTW, don't mind the website, it's based on v1.4 and i haven't updated it for what i've been doing...actually, im gonna remove the link right now.

anyway, thnx for taking the time to respond to my fairly aggressive post with a cool head with college/work/house/car/etc., sometimes little things irk me, and one of those things is when people critique a piece of work without actually ever telling the author so that he/she can fix it. But i do see what you are saying as well...

@sloblivion,
all i ask is you post your critiques in the TV thread so i can actually see them and know what people want changed/fixed/etc.

and the attack-feeding animation, as far as i know, is being worked on by OdysseusB as part of Unnecessary Violence

Wynne: I love your ideas about vampires and I feel pretty much exactly the same way. While I don't know if I can add all the depth you want, I will say that I have a lot of what you want working already. I'll PM you about a vocal audition. To answer your question, no the in game feeding in dialogue currently doesn't do a custom animation, but if I can figure out how deadly reflex did it, I will. Right now the bitten character does respond sixually with some oooh's and ahh's when you feed through dialogue though

Bad Company, and anyone else talking about VTM / Terran Vampires. Please, take any and all discussion about it to the terran vampire or vtm thread. I've tolerated it for some time now, but enough is enough. You don't see me talking about Unholy Darkness in ANY other vampire mod thread do you? I think its disrespectful to continue pimping/defending your mod to my fans in my thread. They are here because terran vampires and other vampire mods they played were not what they had hoped for. That isn't your fault, you didn't make it, so don't take it so personal when someone says "I didn't like it because of ____". I didn't like it for the same reason and a few other reasons.

And despite your efforts to improve Terran Vampires, which I am sure your fans will appreciate, that discussion is not relevant HERE.

If someone wants a feature Terran Vampires or whatever had, simply ask if Unholy Darkness will have ____ and describe ____ the best you can without referencing anything in specific.

Finally, I can pretty much assure you that Unholy Darkness is not compatible with Terran Vampires. You have had some good helpful posts, but I think if this were your thread and I kept talking about Unholy Darkness in it, I think you would have snapped a long time ago. Its been going on for quite a while and I'm pretty sure I asked nicely about a month ago for people to Please continue, my good sir. about it. Anyhow, I appreciate a lot of your posts, (most of them actually) so don't get too ruffled up about me venting here. Mostly I don't have lots of time right now and reading about someone elses mod in my thread is annoying to me, and probably for most of my fans also. But I would appreciate it if you just ignore any VTM comments that surface here from now on. As tacky as it is, most mods start off with some big remark like "I made this mod because ____ svckS" so we're going to see a lot of this. I'm sure two years from now someone will make a vampire mod because Unholy Darkness svcks, but that is out of my control

sorry madmole, i didn't mean to pollute ur thread in any way.

although i you misunderstood what i was asking for. I wanted exactly what you want...

in any post where a mention VT i am simply asking the people who complain about it here to complain about it in my thread, so as not to further pollute this thread with posts that don't belong and so i know what they hell to fix.

Anyway, i am sorry for any irritation i may have caused. I will respect your wishes and never mention mention VT agian in this thread...but i really can't stress enough that the only times i mentioned it were in response to someones critique which i feel would be better placed in the VT thread, like you said. As a matter of fact my last too posts contained such:




damnit, i mentioned "it" again...but i swear that is the last

good luck madmole

A slight off topic reply here. But I have to thank you, Madmole. It's because of Unholy Darkness that I learned about True Blood, so I bought the series on import (with Dutch subtitles!) and had a great time watching it. :foodndrink:

On topic: How will you deal with NPC's that use the "Underworld Marcus" form? Does it automatically happen when reaching vampirism stage 4? Just curious because it would be awesome to see some higher level vamps morphing to go into battle or just showing off their powers.

Wow this seems like a great mod you're making here, and I can really tell you're putting a lot into this to try attain your vision. Really this is really looking great because it seems to combine many great vampire lores from many sources in your own way. Oh and I'm lovin' the new vampire morphs in the first 2 screenshots and all the other vampiric features like the blood looks fantastic! And I've really have to say that the quests seem like they will really add this huge layer of depth to your mod, I just love where you're heading with all this and I hope you don't mind if I put in some suggestions.

I was just wondering what the powers for the vampire will be and how will NPC vamps use them? Either I missed it or you didn't go into much detail about it other than Unholy Fury, Mask of Darkness, and Sleep Suggestion. And how do you plan the vampire living in the mortal world, like do you plan on completely blending into society or will there be things that you have power over?

Anyway I have never really gave much suggestions to mods but this one looks like it has such potential so I thought I'd give it a go, can't hurt to suggest right? I know this might sound a *bit* unbalancing but I think a vampire (not a newly made one) should reign supreme amongst humans (or you know the rest of the races), I think a vampire should be able to easily crush mortals if they wish it, they should be WAY stronger and faster (think Eric demolishing that guy from the prison-basemant thing). Because I see you watch True Blood and as you can see humans really aren't that much of a threat to vamps, unless they don anti-vamp gear but wouldn't that make them hunters? Anyway my point is I think that the only threat a vamp should have should be mid-high level creatures/people, hunters, and other vampires. I know this sounds game breaking but I just think it's a weird experience if you're a vampire and the average joe can beat you into submission with his bare hands or a dagger... I also think the average citizen should run in your presence like in the horses video. And if you do manage to use the attack-feed animation in the works I think that should be the main way a vamp can dispatch, I mean that's how every vampire movie... they sneak in the shadows and grab them and feed or they burst in super speed and grab them and feed or they knock them around and then feed, see where I'm going with this? I know you're focused on a vampire being smart and cunning to survive and I totally agree, but that doesn't mean it can't also show its true power when it needs to. Smart doesn't mean weak, it just means not attracting any attention. I personally think being a vampire should force you to focus on the vampire guilds or hunters or feeding and being a predator, and anybody not relating to a quest is just a prey...

I know you're probably bored with all the suggestion and it's not the most motivating thing to see a bunch of people with a bunch of demands that change your main idea, but I really have hope for this mod. But hey I thought you might give it a thought since you're also a True Blood watcher. I may add some deeper suggestions later depending on how open you are to these ones first, let me know what you think. Thanks for your time and keep up the good work. :rock:

bad company: Thanks for understanding, and being cool about everything.

StarX: I don't have any NPC's using the marcus bat form yet, except one tough vampire in a quest. I might make it part of NPC vamps combat, but we'll see. But normally you will never encounter it on a random aged vampire or anything, I am only manually activating it in a script on one specific vamp right now, for effect mostly.

True blood is great IMO. Its a bit soap opera like, but HBO doesn't pull any punches on nudity, violence, etc and I really like them for that. Just when it starts to seem campy or whatever they pull someones leg off or kill someone and its pretty cool. My only complaint is wasting way too much time on MaryAnne. I want more vampire related interaction. Its like every time its daylight I'm like hurry up and get dark so bill can come out of his coffin:)

KalX:Ideas are still welcome, just don't expect anything to materialize out of them, at least not on my initial release. But I am known to get excited about something and run with it, so the only way to get your idea in this mod is to talk about it. Granted I don't want someone pestering me about "is it in yet" but I do enjoy reading some well put together ideas.

Update: I actually worked on Unholy Darkness last night. Don't get too excited, I'm not done with saints row, but Wynne gave me some much needed motivation in her post.

As for powers, take a look at Parasite X's vampire mod. I started with it as a base so and then enhanced it graphically and tweaked a lot of things, and added a lot of new content and powers, etc.

It has the basics though, night eye, life detect (scent of blood), regeneration, command creature, a mortis shield, mask darkness, a sleep suggestion spell a paralyze spell and some other stuff I may or may not keep. I've added the unholy fury power where it boosts a bunch of stats, and a speed power so you don't need horses any more. You can outrun a black horse with it on, but it svcks your blood pool down pretty fast too. So the more powerful powers will make you thirsty quick.

But I agree with your comments. Granted at level one and a new vampire, you are still going to be getting taken out by experienced bandits, and wild life. This was needed for some form of game play balance. Just because you are undead, doesn't mean you are invincible over night. THe curse or dark blessing, however you want to embrace it, takes some time to grow on you. But you will certainly notice a new feeling of power, but I use OOO so it is still a challenge at a low level, but you will quickly feel pretty strong and powerful as you feed and gain a few levels. I think the curve is just right and plays well.

@Wynne,

I just read over your post and I gotta say you have incredible suggestions, really. I just realized that most of my post was a repeat of your "animation" and "cost" suggestions. You really killed me in trying to suggest anything.
But I really enjoyed your post and I agree with most if not all of it, especially your Rogue suggestions because I can see it goes with the main theme of your post which is having a choice and choosing between different paths, and it's pretty original way of looking at the opposite faction and would really add depth. I can tell you're a fan of VtM, or at least how they portray the vampires in that universe, as a creature with so much exterior power over humans yet inside struggling not to lose control.

I'd love to see put up some more suggestion because for one thing it's a great read, we have a bunch of things in common with some of the suggestions, and not to mention it's motivating madmole.

@madmole,

I'm glad to see you're motivated to work on the mod again, it only takes some inspiration eh? Here's me trying to inspire you for my own agenda...

By the way I love the whole thing where your powers actually make you more thirsty, it gives this need for feeding and hunting. If a vampire wants to survive using his/her Dark Gifts they will have to give in more to feeding, which will allow you to get stronger which will make you want to feed some more... It seems like such a vicious cycle type of thing.

Anyway I personally think that a newly made vampire shouldn't be strong like you said so you can learn to "hunt" in the shadows to be able to survive without being detected as you gradually get better, stronger, and faster. This would give the illusion that you're evolving from a desperate animal to an ultimate predator.

I still think as you get stronger your view of people should also change from creatures you have to carefully use for food to creatures that you can crush, that are putty in your hands especially when it comes to feeding. Like Wynne has suggested you could really have that choice of just draining people dry for that extra power boost (like if you drain someone dry you could get a temporary power boost for the night), but the twist is that the more powerful you get the more inhuman and monstrous you become as well, I don't mean aesthetically I mean with powers just as Wynne suggested with the painful bite for example. And maybe as you succumb more to the best within your dialouge with people keeps decreasing, narrowing down to the option of just feeding on them through dialouge or not talking at all, this could reflect how you're becoming obssessed with blood and need to stop hurting people in order to maintain your humanity.

And if you decide to just drain people with corpses pilling up you draw the attention of higher leveled hunter groups that will make your life miserable as a vampire, forcing you to confront them, hide, or run. Or actually like Wynne said you could reach a point in power where you can hunt down those attempting to destroy you. This way vampirism would be focused less on your life with other creatures but a moral thing that is focused on your life with your inner beast that will change how you play.

I hope this isn't too much, but like I said I'll give my suggestions in doses to try to build up on what you could accept and not accept. Again thanks for your time.

just want to give some inspiration and hope things are going well madmole. I took a little break from playing and just got back into things and I'd forgotten how much I wanted this to be released. Can't wait. Keep up the good work :tops:

Hello!
I've seen this forum slow a little and decided to post some encouragement!!!
And Madmole, Don't stress to much about the release date. I'm more than certain everyone here would happily wait an extra 5 days for it to be complete than force you to release an unfinished version.
Anyway Happily Awaiting you're return!
I'll be back! bliviongate:

Anything over 5 days and we'll kill you

Tbh, if it was just 5 days I doubt madmole would mention any delay.
But you're right, the thread has been slow lately.

Just wanted to pop in and say, i've been watching this project for a while now, and if even half the things happen that are being mentioned here....well, this will be one of the most epic mods ever. Good luck to you.

People have been talking of transforming and whatnot. Well for Madmole I have found two mods that might help you with yours!
I found 2 mods with some of the stuff you listed here. they are http://tesnexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=22501 (Nekhanimals Awesome Vampire Mod) and http://www.tesnexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=20119 (Lithians Nature Of The Beast Mod Beta for the transformations)
Hope this helps! :celebration:

I have infinate patience when it comes to mods, the TSLRP was announced years ago and I'm still waiting & never complaining because I know the same thing that the modders currently working that project know that it will done when its done. All that matters to me with a mod is that its still being worked on even if there are long breaks in between its not the end just so long as it does not become abandon wear.

Ha, I can wait indefinitely too. I still need a new hard drive before I can re-install Oblivion.

But really, it's madmole's work, so it seems really unbecoming to talk about when we'd like to see it.