Hello, I descovered your mod at 8 in the morning today and at half 12 at night (England) I have finally read though all of your threads. Yes, that is all I have achived today. Hey, it was sunday.
First, if you are not yet tired of congratulations, let me congratulate you on everything you have achieved so far with this. I've never seen a mod that seems so much like a hardcoded part of the game. From the beautiful graphical side of things, to the awsome sound work (that is seriously some good voice acting in the videos, especially since it wasn't a voice actor) to the game mechanics, to the plot- I havent been this hyped about anything in a long time. There is not something I have seen or heard of this mod that I thought sounded like a let down to the rest of it- you have stated that well-roundedness is a key to an enjoyable mod and I agree -smiley face but I cant pass the limit-
The depth and complexity of the mod is comendable- yet where others fail, your mod seems to avoid this combersome control scheme of blithering though 5 menus to activate a power. The unique take on aspects is just as noteworthy- the fact you are breaking the norm and experimenting (for example the brilliant idea of "vamping up" with the + and - keys) Is a stroke of genius. As well as breaking new ground in Ideas you seem to be also rewriting standards- a mod in which action filled gameplay, awesome depth, believable characters and epic storylines collide in a seamless, player friendly package? You might as well have built a game as far as I'm concerned. Even the way you handled the comminuty has been superb- you have allowed us say in what we want from the mod, whilst keeping it your own work- you have kept us informed on progress without ruining surprise. I think I actually laughed out loud a few threads back when someone was making presumptions about how you were dealing with vampire hunters, going on a bit of a rant about how much he disliked the idea of random spawns for quite a few posts- then out of nowhere you politely reply saying you were dealing with it in a tottaly unheard of way, and went on to reveal a little bit about how it WAS being dealt with. There was something utterly proffessional in the way you did that, and utterly amusing about his sheepish reply
Having read though the "timeline" of your work in one day, it has certainly been a noticable rollercoaster- there have been times when you have released update after update in a matter of weeks or even days, and there have been times when (tottaly understandably) the content updates slowed or even ground to a halt. However one thing I can say is that from start to finish, the excitement for this project never stopped- you can see the community has buzzed endlessly over this from the first posts to latest, and has proved, if nothing else, we are willing to wait for this as long as we have to. You can take this project at whatever pace you like- we will all be waiting for when you feel you have a version deemed worthy of release -smiley face-
and with that being every coherent word of encouragement I can muster at such a late hour, I have a few Ideas I've mulled over in my head since discovering the project. Not that I want to join the sizeable crowed of people demanding this that and the other of you- I don't sleep very well at night, and I thought If Im going to stay up, I might as well post some ideas I've had. I know your working now on tying up loose ends with mechanics and gameplay (well I think so) and then your moving on to covenant and Rouges, but theres no harm in putting them up here and hey, you might find them useful!
or...not.
Vampire claws as a gameplay featureA relatively small idea.
From what I've gathered, the vampire claws are basicly an atheistic feature (an awsome one at that). However, what with the whole "vamp up" premise mentioned, I think they would integrate perfectly as a gameplay feature. Hand to hand is essentialy redundent in oblivion- there are scarce few times you are left unarmed in game, there is no advantage in taking it as combat choice over blunt or blade,and hardly any npcs use it. This in mind, the vampire claws could be used to pehaps significantly increase the damage of hand to hand at the cost of blood power, as one of your vampire powers. For example, you select it and press + once, you get a +20 skill bonus, again, +40....for something really cool, the claws could grow in correlation to this. I figured it would be a pretty easy thing to add, and it would bring some purpose to hand to hand combat whilst giving vampires a further uniqueness in that they can choose not to weigh themselves down with weapons. (the small reach of the claws and the high speed of attack would make it a totally different experience to wielding a blade or warhammer)
Indepth vampire huntingIm guessing from what I've read you want to work on this later on, and its been mentioned alot, but here goes. I cant remember who mentioned the Vampire hunter rival, but I thought that was instant genious. Allough requireing a truckload of work, it would be a really dramatic and most importantly fun gameplay element, and could make for a kind of second main quest even, aside from the Covenent vs Rouges quest (which I love by the way) you would also have the matter of dealing with you characters personal problem. It has infinite potential in where you could take it- it could be a linier yet cinimatic quest line that will move and capture the player, or it could have mulitple endings based on the characters actions. You could finally defeat him in a climatic battle; or his hatred for vampires could currupt and he could join the legion of the damned as a mighty companion (even giving you the chance to become his maker, as an intresting option). He could be defeated, yet leave a following of dedicated hunters out for revenge- indeed, it could have no ending and he could be a constant character you face thoughout your game- not to often, and with enough varaition so that it stays intresting. He could be a built up character that fights your character face to face, with a sharp personality and a sharper sword- or he could be a mysterious kingpin of a shadowy organisation you must invistagate and finally take down, as he operates invisibly to destroy you.
As well as having a rival, you could also have the chance to play AS the rival (allough I understand this is a LOT of work, this is all hypothetical). Instead of being a vampire, you could pehaps join a guild founded by a charasmatic and instantly likeable chairman- who takes you "under his wing" as such. After a few short quests in tracking down a vampire with him and a team, you could reach a vampire lair only to discover it is a trap. Seeing your freinds and teamleader killed, suddenly what you thought was the end to a short quest is the start of an epic story binding your life and the vampires together as rivals... Whilst I understand this is a vampire mod, not a vampire hunter mod, I think that it would be an awsomely cool thing to play things the other way, even if it was released as an "expansion" of sorts after the release. If ever. The same I wrote above for the vampire rival applies here- there are a thousand ways to explore this, basicly reversing everything I said above. You could have it as a very personal quest, stalking your nemisis alone and trusting no-one, killing off his allies and raiding their safehouses for information, or a grander one- amassing alies from the four corners of cyrodill, rebuilding the guildhouse your dead companion left behind, until finally confronting your rival in an epic battle at a grand location.
(reading though it all seems a rather grand idea to be mentioning now, but its just ideas for the future when things are not hectic)
A vampire mod... for non vampire playersTying in with what I said earlier about Playing a vampire hunter, but in a much less active way. Basically making it so that even when you do not play as a vampire (once you have played though 5 vampire characters of course) and the mod is installed, you will still feel the effects of it ingame. Pehaps it will be as small as awakening from your sleep in a cheap tavern bed to find bite marks- pehaps it will be that during the tedious treck from skingrad to bravil, a whooshing blur of hands and feet passes you faster than a black horse on skooma. Pehaps it will be robbing someones house as a witty theif, only to discover a hidden entrance to a chamber- lying there a ghastly, yet strangly alluring figure slumbering in a coffin. Pehaps it will be as large as being comicly mistaken as a vampire by a hunter rookie, and being stalked everywhere you go by him until he finally leaps from the shadows of a castle wall with an "A-HA!", brandishing garlic and holy water. Or more dangerously, a sharp, silver sword and a stong resisitence to your "mind control powers!!!"
Its not a defining feature of a mod by far, certainly not one aimed at vampire characters, but if there is ever oppertunity to I think it would give the mod a kind of atmosphere that is rare in most actual games, let alone fan made creations, and make it stand out even more as the masterpeice it allready will be. (and it will be
)
Wild VampiresPehaps tying in with some of lore devolping around the Rouge's persona, this is an idea for how to create a living, unbreathing, populated world using the wonderful society of vampires being produced here. It is also an Idea for vampireisem to take turns of its own, outside of the players control.
Basicly my idea is based largely on the mod Oblivion: http://www.tesnexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=19086 (an awsome, awsome name). I don't know if you've played it or not, but basicly the premise is that upon activation, independently to the players actions and locations, a zombie outbreak is started somewhere in cyrodill and spreads, either slowly or quickly based on choices made in the mod settings. It is, hands down, one of the most fantastic mods I have played simply for the fact that it DOESNT rely on the player- it is all happening no matter what your doing. In one run though I could basicly avoid any encoutners with zombies before finishing the main quest- in another I would arrive in the imperial city to meet barius and find the place over run with the living dead. The sheer shock power of watching my companion walk away from battle infected, watch his condition grow worse, until finally he turned mad and attacked me before transforming into a zombie himself was unbeatable. The simple random coolness of aiming my bow at a bandit, and looking down the sights at him to spot the signs of infection, having never seen it in that gameworld before, was unbeatable. The sense of being in a world independent to you that comes when fighting a bandit camp and roaming horde of zombies passes by and joins in, is unbeatable.
Now, Im not sugesting to have it so that vampires are all over the place, that would be totally against almost every type of vampire legend and you could say vampire ethic. But, the way I see it being integrated I can imagine it being a relativly small but effective part of the cyridill world.
Now, I have little understanding of codes ands scripts (this may be apparent, I don't know
) but I think I have a basic Idea how this could work. basicly, you select a good number of cave areas that are spread across the map and contain fairly week animal types (based on OOO leveled lists, i cant imagine it mattering much for vanilla). Then, in pehaps 3 of those caves at a time, spawn a Wild Vampire. They would be strong enough to easily take down a cave of weak animals, but not strong enough to take down anything like a guard (at least not without a damn good fight). His scripting would be to find a bed to sleep in during the day (or simply wait around though it may look strange) and during the night, go out within a fairly large area fighting Bandits, marauders... basicly everything human on the leveled lists. (I've only spent a small time working with the CS but Im presuming this, or something to the same effect is possible) Then for their battle scripts (not sure what the proper term is, but I mean basicly what controls how they fight) they would be programed to use an attack move, be it a combat ability of some sort or just a spell for a less exciting effect, that will infect victims with the vampire curse and give them the same 3 day change the player had. After the change, they will be given the same script that the wild vampire had. If it was a bandit in a camp, the chances are he'll infect a few people there before he goes down... bearing in mind the respawn timer, this would hopefully (with some tweaking) cause some rather intresting controlled carnage, and add to the feeling of a populated world.
Now I know there is a limitation based on whether the PC is nearby (or something of that sort) but I also know it can be overcome. 28 days and a bit uses some pretty hefty scripting (as seen by the console) however there is another mod that produced a similar effect to what I mentioned- http://www.tesnexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=6486. When you turn on an option allowing NPC infections, you can on the first day hear howls in the distance at night, in certain places. If your lucky. A week in and you can hear them in a few places- and I discovered a werewolf body filled with legion arrows on a path. A few days later and I see my first live one. Immersive stuff, and basically the same prospect as what I am suggesting for Unholy Darkness but on an even smaller scale- so that, very rarely, you will step into a bandit camp to find a battle raging between a vampire and the bandits, or even a place full of wild vampires. You would see, once in a blue moon, a vampire rush at you from the darkness in legion armour. Pehaps, as a risky choosable option, you could add a wild vampire spawns inside cities (similer to the zombie spawns in 28d) meaning there is a small chance that you could end up with a city of vampires if you were to allow the game to take forefront and disregard other quests- pehaps you could choose the city spawn option and role play a vampire hunter, preventing the spread of the vampire disease? It would allow for a sense of your life being a part of the world, not the world being a part of your life. used in combination with Curse of Hicrine and 28days all on a very low setting (and indeed, enabling http://www.tesnexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=9858, which is somewhat simiilar premise to those previously mentioned but taking a differnt method) you would feel part of a living, changing and very dangerous world.
The "Wild Vampires" may be something you find totally unattractive as a game option, I don't know, and it may be that this is even the opposite of what you wanted for your mod- in which case fair do's. But as I was reading though your threads and started reading about turning other people into vampires... the memory of Curse of Hicrine and 28days, and probably EDI sprung to mind and I thought a similar thing would be worth mentioning for the vampires of Unholy darkness- particularly based on some of the descriptions of the Rouges
thoughts on the Covenants/RougesWell, since Im still not tired and my heads full of Ideas (and they are ideas, not demands, I promise! -pull tounge-) I thought I might as well stick some of my thoughts on the Covenants and Rouges. Firstly, they seem like two of the coolest vampire factions, drawing from all kinds of vampire lore, and I cant wait to play the mod and see how the two opposed forces collide. I know they have been discussed an awful lot on these threads and as far as I know they are still not fully fleshed out, but I'm am genuinely excited to see how their stories unfold. In many ways games are a platform of entertainment- but in cases of good taste, they become also a very involved medium for story telling
And thats exactly what Im hoping we'll see from this mod- and how could I expect less, from the brilliant characters and attention to detail seen in the videos? -grin-
One thing that got me somewhat confused was this talk of Malog Bal- some of the propositions made were rather bizarre and very lore unfriendly. From what I have gathered of the history of Molag Bal and paticulaly his relation to vampires, there have been a couple of misunderstandings (though I may be wrong).
Firstly, its not been mentioned yet so out with it- Molag Bal is the King of "Having his way with people"(so I don't bother censors) . Alot of people claim he inherited a female deadric with the powers of the first vampire- this is somewhat confused, from what I can tell. Uesp states that he [censored] a mortal woman and she gave birth to what became A race of vampires- it does not say that was how vampires were entered into the world.http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Molag_Bal
Sadly I could not find much on the website related to vampires, so we might not know for sure how they started- there was a minuscule section not worth linking talking about them simply as a foe, and of course a page listing the game play effects of vampires.
Personally I quite liked the other two ideas mentioned. Someone mentioned them being both vampires, but with separate ideals- this meant a balanced underworld, and quite intresting politics to be had, I felt. however I also very much liked the idea of having the Rouges being a mutation of vampires, more animal than human- it was a very unique and very intresting concept both in terms of gameplay and in storyline. It very much reminded me of the Vampires and Vampets (I think is what they're called) of Darren Shan's books- I remember reading them as a child and being tottaly absorbed by the story for all 12 books.
There was one hole I saw in the thought of having them two different types of creature- from what I can tell, the story begins upon being infected, doesn't it? Therefore, at the start of story you are aligned already as either a Covenant or Rouge- unless pehaps there is some way of becoming a rouge soon after in the story, or the story begins with a choice.
General thoughts on vampire powersGames with unnatural powers are always fun, for me at least. Games where you are a normal person and can inherit unnatural powers are even better. There is something so empowering about feeling the transition from human to superhuman- being beaten around by goblins to battering ogres. Doing things other people can't is just plain cool, and when it comes to such powers vampires hit the jack pot (unless your in twilight in which case not so much -pull tongue-) However what is not fun, is a game with unnatural powers that are impossible to properly harness and control, or worse just don't FEEL cool.
Take for example Jedi Speed in Jedi Acadamy. In single player, it was my favorite power- I could slow down time and dance circles around the oposition; dodge lazer fire, out run speeders. I felt like a total [censored]. Multiplayer, I NEVER used it, because it was the most unfun thing I'd played. Instead of slowing THEM down, it sped ME up- same effect on paper, but in game in was just terrible. I'd zip around the map bumping into things and falling of cliffs- in fights I'd be swinging my lightsaber at twice the rate as anyone else but hitting them half as much. I've got fairly good reactions- but it was just ridiculous.
From what I've seen and heard of Unholy Darkness though, it seems things are shaping really well! I remember reading somewhere about instead of having super ridiculousness speed boosts to capture that True Blood kind of fighting, you could instead use a shortrange teleporting spell, which I thought would make for intresting combat. I've seen an example of this http://www.gamesas.com/bgsforums/index.php?showtopic=1058255 (second video). It would be interesting to see it in use that way so you teleport where your crosshair is pointed- allough with amusing and somewhat immersion breaking consiquences if you miss and end up perched on the jerel mountains. Another example however I've seen is the idea to have it as a target spell- if it hits a target you teleport a foot or so behind them (like assassins rush from fable) or if it doesnt you just "dash" a few meters forwards (like assasins rush from fable). I belive I saw that in LAME- I know it was some kind of spell overhall mod.
For when you are simply running though the forest at night though, I think very high speeds and a good jump would make for a great way of getting around and feeling like a [censored]. (unlike being given the same abilities in a fight, in which case tapping forwards teleports you a few yards away from your target). Im pretty sure you've got this all covered from what I've read, but the way I can see it working best is a hotkey is used to select the ability, and this ability grants you both the amazing speed AND jumping ability in one- so you needent bother messing around with two seperate ones. Then as you "Vamp up" that power, both abilitys would increase together. I really do love the concept of Vamp Up though- Im not sure how you'd manage it with the game sysetm, but I cant wait to find out! ^_^
Another ability I like the look of is the morphs- Great job on the acient form btw, It looks really great. At first I wasn't too keen on it, but as It was developed to its current stage I really like the look of it -smile- I know its a tall order, but I think a while back someone mentioned multiple morphs based on characetrs- that would be really awsome
It wouldn't have to be something fancy like the wolf morph- thats a bit weedy for a final morph anyway. Pehaps a giant armoured, gothic beast with massive claws for hands would make a good morph and not be too difficult? I would associate the winged bat morph with mobility and stealth, and the one I just mentioned with strenth... pehaps a magic themed one as well? maybe a glowing mist that is very easy to spot and vunurable to damage, but deals terrific damage with spells? You could base what morph a vampire has based on they're highest skill pehpas and what catagory it fall into- It would make for three tottaly differnt gameplay styles with your final form, from flying to becoming a mystic tank to a glowing form of pure Magicka. Or you could base it somehow on allignment status- say, make the Clawed beast more sinister and make the mist much more bright. Either way i think the different final forms would add that little bit of replayability and customisation to the game- pehaps they could be part of an update.
Right. I have to "wake up" now to walk the dog. It seems the large amount of this post is full of my own ideas, but don't let that fool you- they are simply ideas I put here to perhaps inspire something and to kill some time. I think this mod will be absolutely brilliant how it is shaping up- I cannot stress enough how impressed I am at what amazing work this is. If you like, ignore all of the ideas I put down- stressing you out and trying to cram too much into the mod is not my intention at all.
Keep up this amazing work, and don't let yourself burn out!
peace (and Im sorry if this is a rediciously long post! My heads full of a days worth of ideas from reading about this!)
» Fri May 27, 2011 3:50 pm 
