http://www.gamesas.com/index.php?/topic/1156578-skyrim-to-have-killable-quest-givers/page__p__16936721#entry16936721

;)

However, the children may screw with it a bit. I guess I can just find a Mod, that's what TES is all about!

In both OB and MW, there were periods of time when I felt like killing every single living thing in a town. It was satisfying.
If some of you can't understand how children break immersion for some people, too bad. I'll attempt to remove them from the game as soon as possible.

Could you live with a severe punishment for killing a child?
This is the solution for killing friendlies during qualification
http://www.bigdgaming.net/showthread.php?t=9034
You *are* given a warning that they take friendly kills VERY seriously.

This is NOT a "game" for everyone though (not for CoD gamers), but it's free.

Why automatically assume that someone who wants all unkillable characters removed plans on doing a GTA-style killing spree?

What really destroyed the immersion (one of many things) in Oblivion, for me, was all these silly characters fighting daedra far more powerful than them, getting knocked "unconscious", then getting back up again over and over and over again.

Assuming Skyrim has dragons and dragons attack towns (and some NPCs are unkillable), why would I bother defending a town when the NPCs keep getting back up and doing small amounts of damage to the dragon? This is the same sort of nonsense that plagued Bioshock. You could kill unlimited numbers of enemies simply by respawning over and over again in the Vita-Chambers.

I don't think it's about killing everybody, but more of just being able to kill anybody. Imagine being an assassin, and making a huge plot to take out a king, or count or whatever, and once everything finally goes according to plan when you try to kill him would you rather him be "knocked unconscious" and have guards be alerted or would you rather have just a little message pop up telling you it was a character tied to a quest you might want to do?

I like actually being able to affect the world.

I would actually prefer if such a message did not appear as it is totally immersion-destroying and antithetical to roleplaying.

We've already heard that the game will use "Radiant story" to adjust quests according to how we play. It's not such a stretch to me that no matter who you kill, the game should remain winnable.

I thought that certain NPC's being essential was a great idea and especially in a game where things go on that you have no control over. How many people couldn't get a house because that Orc in Skingrad would commit suicide by leaping off of the bridge? That type of situation pisses people off and it was mostly avoided by making certain NPC's unkillable. In my opinion it was a great idea. Who wants to worry about losing opportunities to acquire things or go on cool quests because some crazy fight happens in a town due to a guard accidentally hitting someone who's only trying to help?


On the other hand, yes, you should be able to kill kids and any counts or countesses that DON'T offer a questline or have already offered a questline that's been completed. It makes sense for the game to ask you if you're sure you want them dead for certain NPC's, then you could kill them if you wanted to or you could choose to let them live.


Maybe for certain NPC's you can knock them out and then decide to kill them with a finisher rather than just killing them outright.

This is among the worst possible solutions in my opinion. The game should never tell me how my character thinks.

To those asking why one would want to kill a child in Skyrim, I would answer that there are a number of conceivable reasons. As an example, consider the choice to kill a child in order to take revenge on the parents for whatever reason.

So that one time that orc in the Dark Brotherhood in Oblivion said he killed a 5 year old as a contract that contract only happens 0.1% of the time?

meh I didn't mind them being unkillable also there's no kings in TES: Oblivion their counts and countesses

I'm sure Bethesda made kids in order to add realism, but to also create quests/stories that can involve children, like saving children from a werewolf or A group of children pickpocket the amulet of kings out of your pocket and you have to go chasing them around town. Children can make it more playful and emotional.

There were in Daggerfall and Morrowind. King Hlaalu Helseth and King Lysandus to name a few.

And King of Worms

Problem; dragons terrorize towns which are now open. They kill people but leave kids alone? Ehh, starting to smell like a Disney...

kids run inside?

There has never been an official statement saying that open cities exist in skyrim. This is a HUGE assumption by the fans based on a dragon attacking a city. There is no reason to think that that dragon wasn't spawned inside the city cell.

ok, i wont talk about being violent towards the kids in the game, but... what will bethesda do to stop us from being violent toward them?

will it work like the unkillable NPCs in oblivion... or will our weapons simply pass through them and they scream and run off anyway, getting a guard?

...bethesda seems to like ruining our immersion in one way or another... im betting our weapons will go right through them.

could've just left children out, but no... just had to irritate us with something we cant get rid of.

...kids in this game will be a million times more irritating than the adoring fan. :banghead:

yeah but he's talking about oblivion so I'm just calling his mistake

One of the screenshots in the GI preview showed a distant city with what appeared to be no walls surrounding it. Combine this with the all new engine and I'd say open cities are a major possibility.

I guess nothing should surprise me anymore, but for anyone who thinks killing children break immersion......doesn't it break immersion to not have children in the game at all? On one side of the coin you have kids, which IMHO, adds a lot more to the environment, then not being able to walk around whackin them. I'm happy kids are in the game and I'll never play a game where children could be killed. There's a line that games that kill cops, kids etc cross that I just can't get behind. I'm happy that Beth has enough class to do the right thing and not add crap just for shock value.

I leik killan peepul.

I won't mind this.

As long as I can scare them off, I'll be fine.

But I hope every other NPC is killable.

My quote was mostly referring to children-i.e. having children running away and locking themselves indoors if the player decides to go on a GTA-style killing spree, or if a dragon attacks the town.

I think that maybe they could still make things realistic insomuch that your sword won't actually "pass through" a child character-again they'd run away to their home and lock themselves in-I suppose from there you could lockpick the door-and at that point there'd need to be two "unrealistic" solutions-either the lock is rendered temporarily unpickable or the child magically disappears from the game world temporarily-I guess there would always be a point at which realism needs to be sacrificed in order to avoid a moral uproar that would no doubt happen if the game allowed you to do such things. A thought that just occured to me though is that once the child locks themselves in their house it's possible that they end up hiding in a closet or some place that the player simply can't get into (whether it actually be physically impossible or just a limitation of the game-like being unable to slash open a closet). The game may not necessarily show us where the child is hiding-in actuality they would have temporarily left the game world-but in terms of your in-game world interpretation of the mechanic they're just hiding somewhere you can't see or get to.

I'd forgotten about that Dark Brotherhood thing, I guess I'd change my estimate from 99.9% to 95%.

If people don't like the way children are handled there might end up being a mod to remove them (unless of course certain children are integral to a main quest-then maybe all children but those ones could be removed or replaced with advlts or something)-that mod could at least be openly posted and discussed on the forums-other types of mods of course would not but that wouldn't mean they won't exist at all-and I just used way to many negatives in that last sentence.

Come on... think about it...
if you don't want kids to die in YOUR game... don't kill 'em... Just don't claim its a good thing if they can't die... just don't... sure its nice they are here... if the player can kill 'em... if not... well... then I'd rather not want 'em

As long as the kids aren't cheeky little brats like they were in Fallout 3, I have no problem with Bethesda making them part of the game.

I'm lvl 44'ish hunter by now with decent magic skills doing the main quest at maximum difficulty. Or rather, trying, it's nuts

With main character dieing, it would be utterly impossible to do anything. In the "find the 3rd and 4th book" quest, a few goblins in the sewers force me to make a run for it. This is using tons and tons of potions and poisons. They chase me to the city streets where I get help from the guards. Unfortunately the escape was through someones cellar and house, and the owner was killed by the goblins. It's not always who *I* kill, but accidents happen. Or me, Jeufree, and Martin heading up to that temple in Bruma (no fast travel). I choose to avoid an Ogre in the middle of the road, but the two idiots attack. They were constantly knocked unconscious, despite being top trained in fighting and magic. The horse was lost though, but the battle with one Ogre took a long time. Since I'm not controlling them directly, they must have a high survival bonus, probably unlimited, as they constantly end up in trouble.

Side note: I'd appreciate it if random encounters was a LOT less likely when playing at extreme difficulties. Grabbing Xarxes book wasn't possible without invisibility. Kwatch was a in/out/hit/in/heal nightmare. And invisibility was only solution for first gate as well as their spells take me out with a single hit.

Bottom line is it seems impossible to do the main quest without unkillable (main quest) NPCs, at extreme difficulties. Or the difficulty system needs an overhaul.