First can I say please read this with an open mind - lots of people will say that areas that require unlocking are inherently non-TES, and should never be considered for inclusion in any TES game. However, I think, if done correctly, it could add a lot to the game.

I'd like to say at this point I'm strongly against anything which forces you into completing the MQ. I imagine that is the sort of thing most people will think of as they read the title of this thread, and that is not what I'm arguing for. So, for me, areas of land you unlock by advancing through the MQ is a definite No, with a capital N.

However, areas requiring a quest or series I would be in favor of. Imagine this; a plague is spreading across the land. In an attempt to seal out the disease, the great city of Solitude has closed it's gates to the outside world. No-one is allowed in or out without the correct papers, certifying their health. Say the player suddenly finds themselves requiring access to the city, but the guards refuse to permit them. And thus we have a quest. Steal some papers, acquire them legally, bribe some guards, sneak in over the walls... multiple ways that quest could end. And once you have completed it, you are rewarded with access to a brand new area.

On a smaller scale, unlockable areas could add a lot of replayability and culture. Clubhouses accessible only to orcs, inns refusing admittance to Khajiit, parties only attendable by the very wealthy and underwater hideouts requiring an argonian to discover.

I'd love to hear your thoughts on the matter.

I disagree...with the statement that it's inherently non-TES. With the concept, however, I love it and I'd like to see it in TES V. But take a hint from Fallout 3: don't make it dependent on the main quest, in the manner that access to the Citadel is in that game.

Eh...I'm indifferent. If we must have unlockable areas make there be a reason for them to be unlockable...Not just for the sake of being unlockable.

I totally agree.

Absolutely, positively not. And yes, I read what you had to say. One of my favorite things about TES games is the ability to explore just about the entire map and just about any location at the very beginning of the game, without ever starting a single quest. The only limitatiosn being locations with locks you cant pick or enemies you can't defeat. And I don't care if the difference between a locked location and an unlocked location is a short quest away, frankly.

I read your post but the answer is still no. The only thing to keep you out should be tough enemies. This would be just as efficient if done right and at the same time, the game wont feel as restricted. Besides, it will give you just another good reason to work hard and level up.

Sure, but independent of the MQ. And maybe if it is a race issue, you could bribe the person giving emission.

What about to avoid bugs? Remember the various, quest-breaking bugs that occured from just walking into some quest-related places that weren't locked(in a way that I couln't break it open)? I don't know if that's a problem with the game engine and quest development or not, but unless they overcome that problem, I would rather have certain quest-related places blocked off, just so I don't accidentally destroy the Thieves Guild questline by walking into any of the buildings of the moth priests.

There is nothing wrong with what you describe. Because there's an actual reason for why you can't enter those places. And of course you could enter just by killing them all.

I vote against unlockable areas, though. Because when I think of that I mean like the Arcane University, for instance, which you couldn't even break into to rob. Certain dungeons that were closed off or empty, just for the purpose of preventing you from killing a key NPC or aking a key item before getting the quest for it.

Things like that need to disappear.

I dont want areas that are blocked off by some invisible wall saying "go back you cannot yet enter here" type of thing. However, a quest related area that have special types of monsters that require a certain weapon or spell to beat id be ok with that (as long as there is a great quest reward :hubbahubba: ). And doors that require a key to access just so that you dont muck up anything is fine too.

I just have to say that if you truly believe that, then you don't believe in the "go anywhere, do anything" philosophy.

You must believe in the Oblivion philosophy:

"Go almost anywhere, as long as it isn't tied to a potential future quest, but we strongly urge you to go in the direction we are pointing. And, ask us if it's OK before you do anything."

Ruin the entire Thieves Guild questline by entering one building. I'll sacrifice the simple ability to walk into an unremarkable building in exchange for not ruining a character I put over 100 hours into.

The problem with the Thieve's Guild in Oblivion, in the first place, is that it's only one questline. If you muck up a quest in Morrowind, there are ton of other quests to do. And you can't really muck it up by going in too early. They just block you out, in Oblivion, so you get the drama of killing the guy at the appropriate moment. In normal RPGs, you'd kill the guy first, then when you take the quest, you tell them the guy's already dead. No broken quest.

And if you sell quest item, just go back and buy it. Why do they kill freedom like that just to save lazy people some fast-traveling?

And there was no reason whatsoever to block me out of the University other than that they didn't feel like scripting the people inside to notice that I don't belong.

If you want to sacrifice the ability to "go anywhere and do anything" just because you consider a character with 100 hours worth of accomplishments under his belt "ruined" if he can't literally be the guildmaster of EVERYTHING, then why are you playing a TES game?

It's odd you'd even pick up a game that says "go anywhere, do anything" if you're afraid that "anything" might prevent you from completing some arbitrary quest at some point in the future.

If there is, limit it to vaults and strongholds. Anything else would be a little silly. And I swear to Vehk if they make leveled unlockable areas... :brokencomputer:

I think it would be reasonable to certain degree.
Like only certain Races could enter a certain building... except there would be a secret and/or difficult way for anyone to enter.
But no restrictions on what Level you are.... that would be anti-TES.

If you think of it, Oblivion already sorta does have a "locked" faction with The Dark Brotherhood.
Only murders are allowed to gain entry, and any good characters will never get to play it. (You can play for a long time without killing an innocent by accident)

1. No, the questline is ruined because of a bug that is caused just from entering that place. The same is true for the Fighters Guild and merely entering Swampy Cave.

2. I don't do everything with each character and I never said I want him to be the guildmaster of everything. I don't jump straight into questlines with my characters. I've been playing Oblivion for nearly two years and the only questlines I've ever completed have been the Arena, Knights of the Nine, and Court of Madness questlines. I only join factions that my character can agree with and where do you get the "guildmaster of everything" idea? Maybe I don't like my thief characters being ruined because I went into a place and later found out that a quest, and therefore the entire questline, was ruined due to a bug that resulted from just entering the place. It's kind of hard to go anywhere I want when I have to worry about something like that, and so yes, I would rather sacrifice one unremarkable dungeon to save my character. If I go to Bleakers Way before starting the related quest, a bug ruins the Daedric summoning questline, as well. Failing a quest as is possible is fine. Losing an entire questline because of a bug that resulted from exploring is crap, and it has nothing to do with doing everything on one character. Please, don't start assuming false things about me because of your false stereotype of how Oblivion players must act.

Like most people here, I would like it if they blocked out certain areas related to quests until you reached that point in time. My example is from Morrowind. I remember that as I was running along once, I came upon.... Rotheran, I think. I killed a guy, went into the place, found a chick and some slaves, and saved the chick with a Divine Intervention ring. Later, once I started the Imperial Cult Quest Chain, I found out that this chick had to be saved as part of the quest, and I could not complete it otherwise.

So maybe lock out some places, or at least have an option that tells the player that they are entering an area that is related to a quest, so they know not to do so.

Reason's I'd accept areas in TES being inaccessible.
1. It's outside of the game level
2. character skill prohibits the player from entering the area (high cliff with no levitate)
3. because of "cultural" reasons, it is illegal for the character to enter, but they can still enter unlawfully by climbing over walls or knocking in doors.

I don't think what I describe contradicts the 'go anywhere, do anything' philosophy at all. Just that you might have to work a little harder to get into some areas.

EDIT: Just noticed that this quote probably wasn't directed at me... :blush:



This pretty sums up the kind of unlockable areas I was trying to describe. The quarantined city example in my OP has a perfectly valid explanation as to why it is inaccessible, and a few fairly simple solutions to access it. This is the sort of thing I would want in an unlockable area - a new character, straight off the boat/out of prison/other should be able to go straight there and start the quest. However I also want to stress that there should always be an alternate way in. You should not be forced into taking the legitimate route. The Arcane University is an offender of this rule - the only way in was via a long and arduous questline. On top of this should be a secret route, a way to break in, bribe-able guards, stealable keys and access papers. That kind of thing.

Remove the irritating "You need a key which doesnt exist to get in here" thing! That was just dumb!

Perhaps for the Arcane University you could let everyone who can get in there have a key to the place. The key opens the place up and when the door closes it relocks. If you take the key you can get in there, however you will be stopped and if you peacefully agree to leave the guards will take the key from you and let you go and then they will put the key in some desk in the University. Unknowing how you got the key (although they may suspect something).

Something like that would be great. Perhaps give you a chance to talk your way out of it ("But... I got told to deliver the Commentaries on the Mysterium Xarxes Part 3 to Mr. Anaconda!"), fight them down, or something like that.

Much better than the stupid "Cant open me..." stuff. Although the University kinda got a reason for it... ("I am the uber-powerful door! I know you havent recieved recommendations because my magical circles havent been informed about your souls identification numbers! Meaning: I wont open for ya!")


Ya... Long post made weird...

To add to what I already said, I think this kind of thing would add depth to the game.

I also like the idea of a secondary way in. Perhaps have the primary, legitimate way be associated with one "path" - stealth, combat, or magic - and have at least one alternate method of entry be associated with another path. For example, a high Speechcraft skill might be required to gain entry into a certain area the legitimate way, but there's another way that can be blasted open with a fire spell, or alternately, smashed open with a melee weapon (but not both methods for the same entry point). Or perhaps a Strength requirement to enter the legit way, but there's a heavily-guarded passage that a stealthy player can sneak in through.

To take the idea of entire cities being locked, with a prerequisite such as wealth/fame/infamy etc, it would have to be a pretty amazing, completely unique experience worth the effort to get in. I'd be very disappointed if you got in and it was a so-so city not much different from any other with the same type of stock characters (and stock dialogue) milling around. I'm not necessarily against it, but I would definitely like to feel it was worth it. And like other posters have mentioned, with places such as dungeons, the very powerful/unbeatable at a lower lever creatures would be a great way of making something unreachable without simply saying "you can't go in there yet". The idea of multiple ways round a locked area also sounds like it would be quite fun, and I've always liked the idea of certain things (be they areas, quests etc) being race specific, as it would encourage me to do more playthroughs (I normally stick to the races I like, knowing that really, I'm not missing out on anything crucial by choosing them over someone else). I can see how that might be frustrating for some players though.

Yeah, as I said, I agree with you.

I was just saying that it's not immersive when areas happen to be closed off just to set up "bumper gutters" or laziness. If it its the politics, of course.

Morrowind would have been so much better if Dunmer actually refused to let Argonians into their inns.

I like this idea, provided that:

Areas unlocking determined by side quests rather than main quests.
The game doesn't exclude the player from a significant area based on a choice made by the player that can't be changed later (i.e. race).

I'd be fine with it, if reasons were given in the game-world. For instance, there was something that could've been this in OB. Riverview (I think that's what it's called) in Cheydinhal. It was a party for rich people and rich people only. So it was locked to you. However, once you had enough money or fame, you should've been invited to the party. Of course, there should've been a way to break in undetected, too, if you weren't famous/rich enough. If it was done like that, I'd have no problems with locked areas.