[cheryl wright]

Anyway.. what has the Enclave done? Have you seen Raven Rock? It's absolutely pimpin'. As for having nothing more than military installations and not settlements, first off, it's the government. The Capitol Building wasn't just a fancy Holiday Inn. It's not their job to make that kinda stuff, not yet atleast. Military installations are their prime concern right now. Why would they build settlements? For who, the impure which are gonna get wiped out anyway? If Autumn had his way, he probably would have made a settlement or two, but under Eden's rule, everything they do makes sense.

If they are supposed to be the government they need something to govern.

There are remnants. They were always there, just biding their time.

The only remnant of the USA is the Enclave itself. They are a government (and a fascist one at that) without a country to govern and thus without a proper purpose to exist.

The USA have been destroyed, history has moved on. It's time for new countries to rise (like for example NCR).

[Kevan Olson]

:rofl:

You my friend, made me chuckle for 5 minutes! Good job!

I mean, what can the outcasts do? I massacred THREE patrols with a BB gun... in VERY HARD difficulty!

:lol:

Now that's what I call intense violence. :foodndrink:

[Code Affinity]

If they are supposed to be the government they need something to govern.

The only remnant of the USA is the Enclave itself. They are a government (and a fascist one at that) without a country to govern and thus without a proper purpose to exist.

The USA have been destroyed, history has moved on. It's time for new countries to rise (like for example NCR).

They are going to govern what they build out of the ashes of the War. In order to do so, they need a stable foundation, which they can't ensure unless everything impure is dead. You horrify me by your comments, about America being dead. It may be so, but that doesn't mean it can't use a reboot. America, up until the War was the best place on Earth, it deserves to be rebuilt, and if what it takes to do so is such measures, I don't blame them, instead I stand by them.

Most of you are frightened by the fact that people are being killed because they're irradiated. Would you step into an elevator with another person knowing he was irradiated? I seriously doubt it, and if you would, then I doubt you fully understand the effects of radiation. If these were better days, they would have gone through therapy of sorts, but unfortunately there isn't. The greater good calls for further destruction.

To put it into perspective, if a 10 floor building is destroyed and the first floor is still standing, but crumbled, do they start building on that floor? Or do they clean up the rest and start from scratch? Answer that yourself. Basically, you're all asking for us to stick with what's going on and accept it, if we do that, we will be stuck in a Wasteland forever.

[Nathan Maughan]

Like the below examples?



Departing thread. Double standards annoy.

Did you even read what I was replying to?

I was stating facts there, in a harsh tone, but stating facts. I was fine with several of your posts doing the same, but you got into the habit of constantly calling us "vermin" and other things of the like, in one or two posts, its alright if you're trying to make a point, but if you're just spamming it, not only does it lose it's impact, it becomes a personal attack.

Edit: It gets hard you know, it's just me, and occasionally Alex, dealing with three opponents. If Chris and Pistolero were around, I might be able to take a break and perhaps the heat would be turned down a bit. Im not sorry for creating the thread though, it may be a big responsibility, but I am more than willing to take it, Pistolero and Chriso both have repeated their viewpoints too many times in dozens of other threads. Im still fresh, I can handle it.

I like the way things are going, for once it's an actual discussion, that actually moves. Sure there are hitches here and there, but which topic doesn't? We've covered over a hundred posts in less than 2 days, that's something. Hope it keeps going this way.

[rebecca moody]

Would you step into an elevator with another person knowing he was irradiated? I seriously doubt it, and if you would, then I doubt you fully understand the effects of radiation.

Irradiated != radioactive. Glowing ones give off radiation. Irradiated people don't. There is no risk from them.

[Laura Shipley]

They are going to govern what they build out of the ashes of the War. In order to do so, they need a stable foundation, which they can't ensure unless everything impure is dead.

The NCR shows us that one can build just fine without having to first kill off most of the population.

Most of you are frightened by the fact that people are being killed because they're irradiated. Would you step into an elevator with another person knowing he was irradiated? I seriously doubt it, and if you would, then I doubt you fully understand the effects of radiation. If these were better days, they would have gone through therapy of sorts, but unfortunately there isn't. The greater good calls for further destruction.

Radiation is not contagious. You can even safely eat food that has been irradiated. So yes, I would step into an elevator with a person who had been exposed to large doses of radiation.

Killing people because they've been irradiated is like killing people because they have sprained their ankle.

[Bigze Stacks]

Irradiated != radioactive. Glowing ones give off radiation. Irradiated people don't. There is no risk from them.

Fine, maybe you would walk by them, but would you get any closer? Reproduce, for instance? Their presence isn't good for society, like I've said before, if the recourses were available, they would be put in shelters, but we're low on them, so killing them is the best option. Death by Modified FEV isn't a painful death either, perfectly humane.

[Damned_Queen]

Radiation is not contagious. You can even safely eat food that has been irradiated. So yes, I would step into an elevator with a person who had been exposed to large doses of radiation.

Killing people because they've been irradiated is like killing people because they have sprained their ankle.

But it is hereditary, and can cause major complication in future generations, (if you want a real life example to verify with, research Agent Orange in Vietnam). We don't have room to risk such complications, and thus their existence provides an unstable foundation. NCR will work great uptill a certain point, but will not be able to progress further, and certainly will never be able to become like Pre-War America, in any aspect. (Or even like our world today). At that point it will be obsolete, and will most-likely self-destruct from frustration.

[Tom]

But it is hereditary, and can cause major complication in future generations, (if you want a real life example to verify with, research Agent Orange in Vietnam).

Radiation is not hereditary. In the unlikely case it causes genetic damage, that may be inherited, but it is not guaranteed.

Agent Orange was not radiation.

This is a load of bull, same as the claims that Ghouls always go feral.

[Chloe Yarnall]

Radiation is not hereditary. In the unlikely case it causes genetic damage, that may be inherited, but it is not guaranteed.

Agent Orange was not radiation.

This is a load of bull, same as the claims that Ghouls always go feral.

Chernobyl then, the radiation is still effecting the wild-life there, the point is, it's not stable, as are Ghouls, just because each and every one of them hasn't gone feral yet, doesn't mean they never will. How many times must one see something happen before they believe it?

[Rex Help]

Chernobyl then, the radiation is still effecting the wild-life there, the point is, it's not stable, as are Ghouls, just because each and every one of them hasn't gone feral yet, doesn't mean they never will. How many times must one see something happen before they believe it?

How exactly is the radiation affecting the wildlife there?

[naomi]

Id be more in favor of killing Super Mutants and Ghouls because super mutants are the reason that the capital wasteland cannot rebuild and ghouls could go feral at any second. The argument that one person can beat the enclave isn't really valid though because in real life the LW would have died in alot of situations so that really cannot be used. Autumn's enclave isn't evil they want to reverse the radiation in regular people and kill all the ghouls and super mutants and also if every settlement in America united back under the government than we would be able to restore the pre-war lifestyle faster than another faction. The enclave have more advanced tech than anyone else meaning we could once again be the most powerful nation in the world. Then after the dust settles the USA can restore the government and most importantly democracy. The NCR although on the right track they have the manpower just not the tech. They barley beat the BOS and are having trouble with ceaser's legion. If the NCR wants to give a few senate seats to some high ranking Responsible(as in not the Richardson or Eden type people) enclave members change their name and flag to America and the American flag then they would be the rightful USA. But remember United we stand.

[Lalla Vu]

The enclave have more advanced tech than anyone else meaning we could once again be the most powerful nation in the world.

Completely unproven. Nothing outside the US has ever been seen in Fallout that I know of.

Then after the dust settles the USA can restore the government and most importantly democracy.

I'd bet my PipBoy that the Enclave elite will never willingly give up the power they've claimed. Democracy is a tool for them to exploit, not an ideal for them to live up to.

[Captian Caveman]

QUOTE: They are going to govern what they build out of the ashes of the War. In order to do so, they need a stable foundation, which they can't ensure unless everything impure is dead. You horrify me by your comments, about America being dead. It may be so, but that doesn't mean it can't use a reboot. America, up until the War was the best place on Earth, it deserves to be rebuilt, and if what it takes to do so is such measures, I don't blame them, instead I stand by them.

There comes a time when we must anolyze the good inherent of a given action against the cost. Let's say that Eden's virus will kill 90% of the people in the wasteland. It's probably much higher, but we'll be generous. That means that for every man, woman, and child who receives the hope of a better life, nine others must die. That is too high a price. If someone handed me a gun and promised me a million dollars if I would kill nine randomly selected human beings, I assure you that the only person I would shoot would be him.

Furthermore, the persecution and destruction of persons believed to be "inferior" exemplifies America when it was at its worst (the so-called "manifest destiny" of the 1800's). That is not the America we need to revive. the America we need to revive is the America that we Regulators seek to establish: the America where people work hard and ask the government for nothing other than its basic function. Where the rights of others are respected, and where diversity and tolerance are the rule rather than the exception. And, where evildoers face swift, certain, severe justice.

I am a Regulator. I stand against the Enclave and their nightmarish dreams of domination and genocide. You know what list to put me on.

[james reed]

If a catastrophic emergency is declared the President can declare martial law and suspend
elections until resolution. Under the way it is currently written Congress would be powerless
to prevent the dictatorial usurping of power by the President.

Maybe in the Fallout universe....not in the real one. There is no Constitutional mechanism I'm aware of that would allow the President or Congress to stay in office beyond the end of thier term. For example....Obama's term ends Jan 20, 2013, either he is re-elected and inaugurated for a second term, or is not and his opponent is inaugurated. Without a certified winner of the last Presidential election (either President or Vice-President) available to take office, they would have to install the Speaker of the House as President. With no election, the entire House has had thier term expire so there is no longer a Speaker, the only choice at that point is the Senate President Pro Tempore, as 2/3rds of the Senate are still in office so the senior of them (Max Baucus of Montana, as Sen's Inouye and Leahy are running for re-election and with no election would have thier term expire) would become President and have to deal with the constitutional crisis of having no House of Representatives, and a rump Senate to govern with.

[Marta Wolko]

Actually a mechanism to allow the President to maintain power in the case of a catastrophic event was put in place by Bush in 2007.

[Loane]

Actually a mechanism to allow the President to maintain power in the case of a catastrophic event was put in place by Bush in 2007.

Um....... ok?

[Tamika Jett]

Do you have a link where we can read the specific terms of this supposed law?

[Betsy Humpledink]

Do you have a link where we can read the specific terms of this supposed law?

Its somewhere in the thousands of pages of goverment law. I do not want to spend half my life looking for it!

[Jerry Jr. Ortiz]

Do you have a link where we can read the specific terms of this supposed law?

http://www.fas.org/irp/offdocs/nspd/nspd-51.htm

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Security_and_Homeland_Security_Presidential_Directive

[Carolyne Bolt]

To all Enclave supporters. What is your favorite Enclave power armor?? Mine is easily the http://fallout.wikia.com/wiki/Advanced_power_armor_Mk_II_(Fallout_2) as seen in Fallout 2. It looks kinda like a BA insect. I can't wait to wear it in Fallout New Vegas. I really don't care for the power armor they use in Fallout 3 at all. If I had to pick one I liked from FO3 it's the Hellfire Armor.

[Mashystar]

To all Enclave supporters. What is your favorite Enclave power armor?? Mine is easily the http://fallout.wikia.com/wiki/Advanced_power_armor_Mk_II_(Fallout_2) as seen in Fallout 2. It looks kinda like a BA insect. I can't wait to wear it in Fallout New Vegas. I really don't care for the power armor they use in Fallout 3 at all. If I had to pick one I liked from FO3 it's the Hellfire Armor.

They are using the old one from Fallout 2

[Amanda Leis]

It cannot be said any better than this quote from the wiki.

That doesn't really refute my point that the man is a sociopath.

He obviously knows everyone thinks he's a bad guy, but that because no one else sees the big picture, if they did, they would be with him.

I'm not crazy, it's the rest of the world that's crazy.

The BoS have Outcasts, and deserters. Do the Enclave have any deserters? Nope. Everyone in it is happy, and agrees with the courses of action, wether their coming from Eden or Autumn.

Oh there's Enclave deserters. There were some in Fallout 2, there was one in Fallout 3, and there will possibly be more in New Vegas.

Edit: The unity of the Enclave is IMO its single largest advantage. Wether Eden's Enclave or Autumns Enclave, their unity is impeccable. Even looking at the forum, we have several supporters and several opponents, however the opponents aren't united. Some may be BoS, some may be NCR (although Enclave and NCR don't actually have anything against each other, as they haven't come in each others way.. yet.) and some may just be lone wolves, the fact is, they aren't together, their hatred for the Enclave is perhaps the only thing they have in common, and it isn't nearly enough.

The New California Republic is very much aware of who the Enclave are, and what they tried to pull during the era of Fallout 2. I doubt the Enclave would be welcome on the west coast anymore, and I'd be genuinely surprised if the NCR hasn't taken Navarro yet.

[Lyd]

How exactly is the radiation affecting the wildlife there?

Sorry, I meant to say Hiroshima. Got confused. Anyway, in Chernobyl they found an abandoned building filled with slightly mutated cats as inhabitants, even kittens, meaning they aren't that old, I saw it on Discovery channel. You don't mess with Discovery channel.

[DeeD]

To all Enclave supporters. What is your favorite Enclave power armor?? Mine is easily the http://fallout.wikia.com/wiki/Advanced_power_armor_Mk_II_(Fallout_2) as seen in Fallout 2. It looks kinda like a BA insect. I can't wait to wear it in Fallout New Vegas. I really don't care for the power armor they use in Fallout 3 at all. If I had to pick one I liked from FO3 it's the Hellfire Armor.

Mine is Hellfire, without a doubt,for the stat bonus, but for pure aesthetics, then Tesla Armor. I love the occasional plasma surges.