[Thema]

*Enclave*

Inspirational Quote of the Week:"Where there is no vision, the people perish"

Current Supporters:

-http://www.gamesas.com/index.php?/user/483655-chriso123/
-http://www.gamesas.com/index.php?/user/594926-holy-assassin/
-http://www.gamesas.com/index.php?/user/512002-pistolero/
-http://www.gamesas.com/index.php?/user/621384-alex-man142/
-http://www.gamesas.com/index.php?/user/584951-fireal/
-http://www.gamesas.com/index.php?/user/604936-pariah/
-http://www.gamesas.com/index.php?/user/601108-deadspartan24/
-http://www.gamesas.com/index.php?/user/617472-you-got-mail/
-http://www.gamesas.com/index.php?/user/617771-lucky38/
-http://www.gamesas.com/index.php?/user/622844-magnum700/
-http://www.gamesas.com/index.php?/user/557397-ghoulsrpeople2/
-http://www.gamesas.com/index.php?/user/564807-kacj321/

Current Adversaries:

-http://www.gamesas.com/index.php?/user/66871-dragatus/
-http://www.gamesas.com/index.php?/user/418536-showler/
-http://www.gamesas.com/index.php?/user/619463-oddish/
-http://www.gamesas.com/index.php?/user/615553-colonel-martyr/
-http://www.gamesas.com/index.php?/user/603971-karkeys/
-http://www.gamesas.com/index.php?/user/615946-alois-hammer/

If you wish your name to be shown here, simply say so in this topic, stating which party.

http://fallout.wikia.com/wiki/Enclave <-- I strongly advise everyone willing to post to go over this first. Know what you're talking about and get the facts straight to avoid confusion.


Welcome Forum,

This is the Unofficial Enclave Discussion Thread, in which we shall discuss the Enclave as a faction. Their ideologies, thoughts, beliefs. Along with other things, such as the lore behind them, their history, the current armor and weaponry they use. Their members, and associates, and everything that has anything to do with Enclave!

This is not a fanclub it is a discussion thread, and everyone is free to discuss openly.

[Quick Draw]

Alright, first off the bat, which 'Enclave' do you guys like more? Eden's Enclave, or Autumns Enclave? You don't have to support the Enclave to have an opinion on which one is better.

Edens Enclave - Eliminate everything that's radiated or 'impure' so America can start afresh, and rebuild itself from scratch, on a solid, un-compromised foundation.

Autumns Enclave - Eliminate selective 'impure' groups, but allow most Wastelanders to live, and unite them. Perhaps rebuild America with them, rather than get rid of them.

I personally think Eden's got it right. Extreme conditions call for extreme measures, and the Wasteland is extremely screwed up. Although it may not be because of radiation that they behave messed up, we can't take the risk. If the world is just repopulated from a small group of civilized, pure, cooperative, united people, it will surely be successful. Whereas if the chaos of the Wastes is left to run a-mock, the madness will never cease. But that's just my opinion. What's yours?

[Poetic Vice]

a small group of civilized, pure, cooperative, united people, it will surely be successful.

I have limited experience with the Enclave so far since I haven't completed the game yet, but I haven't seen the "civilized" part yet.

[Kyra]

I could at least understand Autumn's Enclave, since his intent is presumably to restore order to a chaotic and violent wasteland, and the distribution of clean water is a necessary first step. However, he murdered an innocent woman in cold blood for no good reason, and such a man cannot be trusted. The mentality of killing those who oppose you or those they care about, combined with absolute power, can only lead to one place.

Eden's vision is simple psychotic tyranny. A good and democratic government acts for the good of most or all of its citizens, not just a selected few. A tyrannical government crushes the many in the interests of the few.

In "2010", Dr. Floyd wondered whether HAL was psychotic, neurotic, homicidal, suicidal, or just plain broken. I think that for Eden, the answer is most likely "All of the above".

[John Moore]

An unofficial Enclave discussion is just asking for "BoS supporters" to come in, start a flame war, which of course leads to the topic being closed and warns being handed out to all involved. Its sad to know that fellow Fallout 3 fans could possibly find a need to start a flame war (and fan clubs) over two in game factions.

Anyway, every single one of my characters, without fail, has refused to side with the Enclave, no matter how high or low they're karma or moral values are. I don't know if its the hours of propaganda I was forced to listen to while setting up homes and outpost in Enclave Radio infested areas, or watching the Enclave drop out of the sky to ruthlessly kill wastelanders, raiders, mole rats, and all behind the cover of a Deathclaw or power amour. They're "restoring peace to the wasteland" by dropping in from the sky, lighting up everything in they're path, and never actually coming down to talk to the inhabitants or see the carnage they bring. The obvious exception are the foot soldiers who come to the ground, but they're still lighting up everything in they're path.

I don't like the Brotherhood of Steel for similar reasons, and would quicker side with a group of Raiders living in a burned out barn than any pesudo government entity. To recover from the great war requires self sustenance and rebuilding from the ground up. The future lies in small communities repairing a traditional pre-industrial way of life, not more of the military power the brought on the war in the first place.

[lucy chadwick]

Colonel Autumn for president!

Or, atleast, I'd so vote for him if I could still have his uniform.

Still always side with the enclave, save for when I decide to go for a "hey look, more tech for the outcast" kinda character as the outcast are the only one that properly rewards you for your trouble. BoS just abuses me for my skills in removing raiders and muties from the face of the earth.

But basically I'm a supporter if its Autumn's Enclave we're talking about. Eden and his theories isnt my cup o' tea.

[Stryke Force]

Its sad to know that fellow Fallout 3 fans could possibly find a need to start a flame war (and fan clubs) over two in game factions.

I don't see the issue, as long as no one's fighting.

ANYWAY. If you're asking which we PREFER, I'd say Autumn's, for all the usual reasons. He's a crazy old man, but Eden's crazier, and he's not a man at all. That disturbs me a bit. And yeah, Oddish, it kinda reminds me of that movie too. O_O"

[cassy]

Agreed. As the first anti-Enclaver to post in this forum, I appeal to all those who come after me to me respectful, and to explain why yo feel the way you do about the Enclave, pro, anti, or neutral. Let's have a civilized discussion, not a flame war.

[Jaylene Brower]

Agreed. As the first anti-Enclaver to post in this forum, I appeal to all those who come after me to me respectful, and to explain why yo feel the way you do about the Enclave, pro, anti, or neutral. Let's have a civilized discussion, not a flame war.

I guess my multi paragraph rant against the Enclave doesn't count as being against them? My humble opinion as to why the Enclave is evil is a few posts up.

[OnlyDumazzapplyhere]

I personally dislike the Enclave, my reason is that beneath the teary eyed patriotism and comforting speeches are cold and calculating lies. It's always been that way, and to quote President Richardson, he truly believed their genetics were far more superior, and the way I see it, Having some singular appearance or 'classic' trait is nothing but a superiority PseudoNazism complex. Besides, the only thing the Enclave have going for them is they are essentially how genetics were before The War. But the people in the wasteland have been exposed to the background elements, and if them being able to survive in an environment better than a 'pure human', wouldnt this mean a Wastelander is technically 'better' than the Enclave since they are better able to survive the environment?

And lets not forget their 'policy' to shoot 'non genetic compliers' It's all bollacks IMO. But maybe I'm just an idiot, maybe gunning down anyone who even breathes differently than us needs to be shot.

In short, The Enclave is just a Nazi Party wash rinse repeat branded 'AMERICA!'

[Sheila Reyes]

The whole takeover of the Purity Project and then claiming on the radio that they created it pretty much finished their chances with me. I'll see if Autumn is any better, but it doesn't look likely.

[Campbell]

QUOTE: I don't like the Brotherhood of Steel for similar reasons, and would quicker side with a group of Raiders living in a burned out barn than any pesudo government entity. To recover from the great war requires self sustenance and rebuilding from the ground up. The future lies in small communities repairing a traditional pre-industrial way of life, not more of the military power the brought on the war in the first place.

I'm a Regulator supporter myself, but I think that the Brotherhood are all right. I don't think their intention is to take over the wastes, the way the Enclave wants to. Their current mission is more to protect the people from the threats that no ordinary person can handle, like Super Mutants. Like it or not, there is a need for groups like that.

[Heather Dawson]

However, that's Elder Lyons' version of the BoS. Main BoS is probably more like the Outcasts, but not quite as extreme.

[Mr.Broom30]

Ahh, good to see the Enclave fanclub return..

You know, back in mid-2009 I started a similar thread chain, called Unofficial Enclave Fanclub. It started as a way of uniting the few Enclave supporters here in BGSF (there really were only like 5 of us back then). It turned out to be a 20-odd threads large chain, and brought dozens to the loving guidance of the Enclave :nod:
Unfortunately it was closed by moderators after every small and silly faction started getting their own fanclubs.. My favorite was BoS fanclubs, since they(!) never lasted more than two pages while we got a new thread almost daily. (Although we got a bit spammy towards the end)

But I hope this brings some constructive discussion like the previous fanclub did. And I do hope this won't get closed (too soon).

Agreed. As the first anti-Enclaver to post in this forum, I appeal to all those who come after me to me respectful, and to explain why yo feel the way you do about the Enclave, pro, anti, or neutral. Let's have a civilized discussion, not a flame war.

I support the Enclave simply because they are the lesser evil*. That is, Colonel Autumn's Enclave. In Fallout 2 and for much of Fallout 3 I resisted the Enclave because of their genocide plan, but closer investigation revealed that they had changed their habits after 2242.
That is it put short.

* Not lesser evil in the sense that who kills more and who kills less, but in the sense that the Enclave is the only faction out there with the skill and will of establishing an authority over the Capital Wasteland and anything is better than the total anarchy there is now. Even better when it was revealed that Colonel Autumn is really in charge of the Enclave, and he wishes to protect the (near-human) locals instead of mass murder.

In short, The Enclave is just a Nazi Party wash rinse repeat branded 'AMERICA!'

The Enclave is light years away from the Nazi Party. Completely different histories, completely different structures, completely different goals. The only WORD that is in common between them is genocide, and even that is only narrowly similar between them.

[Loane]

To recover from the great war requires self sustenance and rebuilding from the ground up. The future lies in small communities repairing a traditional pre-industrial way of life, not more of the military power the brought on the war in the first place.

firstly, it was the Chinese who brought war to the United States of America.
to recover from ANY war, its takes goverment policies and industrial power.

the Enclave was ELECTED as the goverment of the US of A. which makes you
a traitor to your country.

Struggle is the father of all things. It is not by the principles of humanity that man
lives or is able to preserve himself above the animal world, but solely by means of
the most brutal struggle.

[Umpyre Records]

I don't like the Enclave or the Brotherhood of Steel. The Enclave were responsible for the destruction of the planet and they want to commit genocide on innocent people, and the real Brotherhood of Steel doesn't give a crap about people, just collecting technology. I admire Lyon's group for wanting to help the Wasteland, but their faction seems like it's easily prone to corruption and mutiniy.

I guess I'm just an anarchist at heart. I think the Wastelanders should just be left to take care of themselves and run their own small communities without interference from people like the Enclave.

That's my opinion.

[Lucky Girl]

the Enclave was ELECTED as the goverment of the US of A. which makes you
a traitor to your country.

Mhm, did you write that into canon yourself? Or did you just completely forget it was a shadow government pulling the strings of the government that didnt give a damn about 'The People' before the war?

[Laura-Lee Gerwing]

Mhm, did you write that into canon yourself? Or did you just completely forget it was a shadow government pulling the strings of the government that didnt give a damn about 'The People' before the war?

All propaganda has to be popular and has to accommodate itself to the comprehension of the least intelligent of those whom it seeks to reach.

[Laura Mclean]

The way I see it (from lone wanderer perspective) is the computer for all its faults understands how to have an advlt discussion and how to make a proposal in a non-threatening way. I respect that. Now Autumn on the other hand doesn't have the leadership qualities to even communicate, how on earth can he lead an Enclave other than to its destruction. But the gentlemen Eden seems to have lost the plot, or his programming doesn't allow him to work out the implications of his goals..... so neither of them appeal to me at all.

The nazi comments are interesting, I understand what Col Martyr means even though the definition of what a nazi is or isn't may not apply to the game situation. Autumn achieving his goals would result in a nazi like outcome (theoretical since it never happened and similar to eden but perhaps a little less extreme - not sure if limited anihilation of wastelenad communities can be described as 'less extreme' though. Regardless of whether it's nazi 'ideology' or not I 'm not siding with it.

I would find it much harder to choose another faction to side with, I would probably just end up settling in Megaton and doing a few shifts in the crows nest now and then, and keep an eye out for the next big threat to the small communities still making a go of life.

[Jeneene Hunte]

the Enclave was ELECTED as the goverment of the US of A. which makes you
a traitor to your country.

At best, I'd say their eight year term limit was up about 192 years ago.

[Flash]

umm, you forgot to add me to your supporters list!

[RaeAnne]

I can't really comment on Autumn's Enclave because I haven't had a chat with him yet (now on my second character, first one had very low Speech), but from the descriptions it sounds like a step forward from Richardson's and Eden's Enclave. I'm not convinced it's a big enough step forward though and will reserve my judgement of it for now.

However, I can comment on the old Enclave and the Enclave in general. I strongly disapprove of them and not only because of their genocidal tendencies. They style themselves as the USA government but that's [censored]. For one thing, the USA were destroyed in 2077. They may be the remnants of the old government, but that doesn't make them the legitemate government of North America in 2277. Legitemate government has to come from the will of the people. And while it may be true that most of the people of North America in 2277 are not fit to vote that doesn't mean that a small elite can do all the voting instead of them. What it really means is that North America is not fit to have a single central government.

Instead each more or less civilized settlement should establish a local democratic government (city council). Over time these cities will develop into city states (assuming they survive) and then several neigbouring city states can join into some kind of a confederation. Then these confederations would grow increasingly unified and turn into states. And then the process would repeat itself on higher and higher levels until finally the whole continent is again unified under a single government. Or not. Maybe the people would prefer to have multiple countries. It's up to them to decide.

Of course that is the ideal scenario. More realistically the merging would often occur through conquest, but that's beside the point. The point is that there is a way to establish an acctually legitemate continent wide government and it has nothing to do with the Enclave. The Enclave are at best conquerors and at worst genocidal maniacs.

[Danny Warner]

QUOTE: I guess I'm just an anarchist at heart. I think the Wastelanders should just be left to take care of themselves and run their own small communities without interference from people like the Enclave.

No, you're more in line with the philosophy of the original American founding fathers. For the first 150 years of this country's existence, it was what it was intended to be: a collection of individual states seeing to their own affairs, with the power of the federal government carefully limited by the 10th Amendment. Unfortunately, since the 1930's, the 10th Amendment has been ignored, and the federal government has grown exponentially larger, more powerful, and more intrusive. And now, I'm sad to say, it forces on all of us decisions that should be made at the local or state level, and makes us pay for the enormous bureaucracies that support those laws.

The Enclave, I believe, represents the extreme of that disturbing trend: a central government that strips the citizens of their freedom under the guise of "protecting" them.

[James Baldwin]

The Enclave, huh? Well, I mostly don't like'em - neither of them, but here's my opinion of both of'em...

Eden's Enclave
Big NO for me. While I agree that you sometimes needs extreme measures for extreme conditions, I think the price's too high here. Even worse, one must consider that at worst, his solution could actually end up being what kills off the human race. More or less EVERYTHING out there in the wasteland is irradiated to some extent. Truly non-irradiated people are very rare in the world and in the worst case, the radiation could eventually spread even to those few, making them vulnerable to the modified FEV. So... No, just no.

Autumns Enclave
Well, I dislike this guy too, but it's not exactly like the game sets us up to become best pals either. To us, he's the man who murdered our father, to him, we're "bad guys" who are obstructing the Utopia he wants to create, so its understandable that we probably don't see him from his best side. Trying to look away from the PC's perspective, though, one can assume that he's probably quite civil to people in general and has no reason to kill you as long as you don't oppose him and may even be willing to welcome you with open arms as long as you obey him and/or supports his cause. That makes him a tyrant/dictator though and I don't much like those, most of the time. I'll acknowledge him as the "lesser evil" of the two Enclaves and if you could only choose between him and Eden, I'd probably choose him, but I wouldn't choose either over the BOS...

[Penny Flame]

I have limited experience with the Enclave so far since I haven't completed the game yet, but I haven't seen the "civilized" part yet.

Wait till you get to Raven Rock then...

umm, you forgot to add me to your supporters list!

Getting right to it!