I don't think I should leave because I haven't been breaking the rules, I think I am generally fun to play with, I think I should stay here.

So changing the map is now set in stone?

Great. Well, I'm done. No more playing on this server for me. Hopefully the new map you guys get will work out better, and you wont change maps yet again in another two months. Though I wouldn't be surprised if you do. Just like Undone said, this server is not a democracy, and he couldn't be more right. We regular members have no control over our fates, only the mods do. Do the mods want a new map? Then we get a new map. Do the mods want more drama? Then we sheepies need to dance around and produce more drama. Do the mods want more rules? Then we need to follow those rules. Personally, I don't quite like having no control over my fate. I don't like devoting dozens of hours to building something on this server, only to see it disappear in the blink of an eye once the mods decide to change maps yet again. So, as I said, I'm done.

I'll still stay somewhat active in this thread, I think, as long as I start using singleplayer more.

I'm considering doing what Antibody is doing. I'll see these new alleged proposals, but it sounds like more of the same to me.

Actually, a lot of this is very much in line with your own suggestion to cull the member list then gradually allow in trusted members.

A few ideas that have been talked about. Nothing is final, but this is what I hope to see.

There'll probably be another city based game. One large city, in which everyone lives.

The city walls will be built before the server goes public, using spawned rock, so we know where to build in. From that point onwards, EVERYTHING has to be done legit. No 'it's for a community project' or 'mining obsidian takes forever' or other excuses.

/spawn and /home are most likely removed, encouraging people to stay close to the city, as intended. You don't have to live in the city, but you'd have a hard time surviving on your own outside. And if you die, you end up at the city again of course. If you get stuck because of a glitch somehow one of the admins can get you out, but aside from jumping on fences which acts a bit funny this shouldn't ever happen.

Without an easy way to teleport out of every nasty situation or confusing dungeon, mining becomes a more dangerous task. Gold/diamond is more difficult to get your hands on, and food is needed more. This should encourage trading or teaming up. Especially now that tools/armor degrade. And the duplication glitch is gone. This should result in having the type of game that the Aldgate game should've been all along.

Agreed, and easily enforced on the admin end. We'll just remove the /item command from all the mods.


Agreed. For the complainers - it's no different from survival single-player.


Agreed (in a hopeful manner). Aldgate was a victim of its own small borders, a poor rule-set (exclusive trade rights and maintenance grants were impractical and cumbersome to moderate), and Minecraft's alpha nature (drop-and-repair items, no damage etc).

Yes, I would have been quite happy to see that suggestion implemented when I suggested it, instead of weeks later when you're also deciding to destroy everything we've all legitimately worked on since the new map started. It was one thing on the last map when a lot of the structures were built with spawned materials. Now almost every structure has been built with the many, many (now wasted) hours our members spent mining and building on this server.

Also I suggest everyone ducks for cover once Robbio comes on because I think he may just explode with anger. New Mordor being destroyed makes me mad, so it should make him furious.

Can't be pleasing everyone. You've got to take the short-term loss for the long-term gain. You think I was overjoyed to see the months put into the Talos Cult base then New Undonia all gone? At least we should be able to get this world backed up (no promises), so it will be there for anyone who wants to play in single player, or who wishes to host the server locally (as was done by Wampbit and I before we got the dedicated server).


All we've had in the last few threads is complaints about griefing. If we're now going to get complaints about us doing something about it, as was expected, then quite frankly I'm not interested. We are not big bad mods out to ruin the game for the rest of the players. We are people who have put effort into hosting, designing, running, administrating, debugging and funding servers for months. We gave the normal members more freedom, and that didn't exactly turn out for the best. Think you can do better? Download the files and host your own server.

I am confused about why you guys would make another new map. What form of gameplay are you trying to acheive here?

If you could get the current world backed up and available for us that would be great, I know some people *cough* Robbio *cough* are gonna want the world

also just an update I thought I'd mention for you guys (evan I mean you )

My friend has currently set up a temporary server. We are in the process of getting a good box ready to make it dedicated (the box we have but it's gonna need a couple upgrades which will cost money and take a lil bit to get... honestly it just needs more ram)

but incase you wanted to play around in it for now the IP is 173.32.130.63

just fyi though... creepers do actually blow [censored] up in this one

He backs up the world before it goes offline and the world should stay constant once the dedicated is up

"Mr. Jacobson, you've just won a new mansion!"

"Oh my god! Oh my god!"

"Construction will start right away! First things first though, we need to burn down your current house and everything you own. Don't worry, once you're in the new, completely empty mansion, you'll have plenty of space to fill it with new items and plenty of time to make even more memories than the ones we're about to burn down!"

That's how I see it. Nothing short of giving everyone all of their possessions, every block they've used for construction, and every second they spent wasted on this server added back to their total lifespan, for use in the new server would make me happy or even accepting about this. And obviously, none of that's going to happen.

"Can't be pleasing everyone" is the worst way you could be looking at this situation. You're going to be losing some of the same trusted members you want to start the new server with. Oh sure, I'm the only one who's officially gone, but there will be others, and if there aren't, then feel free to laugh at Antibody and the silly principles only he seems to have.

Edit: And telling me you might be able to back up the world is a moot point until you can be 100% certain that you can.

"I want change! This has to be fixed!"

"Wait, what? The changes are going to affect me? I don't want change!"



These moves were considered earlier, we opted to give the community a chance. We didn't want to force anyone off the server, so we kept the whitelist, put up a new map, and set up guidelines to give everyone their own territory to build in, undisturbed. This relied solely on the self-discipline of the community. The community failed. We CANNOT please everyone. Instead of complaining about it, try giving some constructive feedback.

I'm not the one doing it, that's on Wampbit. We should be able to do it, but it depends on the server. It's not the friendliest thing when it comes to up/downloading. So, we'll endeavour to get the map off the server, archived and uploaded, but we can't make any promises. That is hardly unreasonable.

It was going fine until you wanted this community project. You were complaining there wasn't a sense of community, and that it was like isolated settlements. Now we do what you want on this project all for the admins and all of a sudden there's too much griefers. Oh my god this is stupid. This has to be one of the stupidest things I've seen. Then you act like everyone's going to be just dandy in the new version of the server. Like somehow you can control the very nature and whims of people. It's going to end the same way.

Everything was dandy in the Aldgate days so yeah....

For all those saying "OMGz my stuff, oh nooo!!" You have to learn to let go. You think I was happy when we trashed the old map and I had to give up the castle Allstar and I worked hours on? No I wasn't.

err, didnt't Aldgate blow up?

The community didn't fail. The mods failed. The community can't do anything about the bad apples we have on this server. Having gone over the logs myself, and having actually talked to the community myself, I can guarantee you that the members of this community know exactly who has to go, and who exactly is the thief that has been active as of late. It is the inability to act appropriately that our admins have that led to this failure. It's impossible to use self-discipline when we have no mod powers to help the community, and it's up to the mods to use the powers we don't have to make the server a better place. We cannot self-discipline when we can't do anything when newer and newer bad apples join. And now that you mods have finally realized that you haven't done enough to help us, you're starting a new map with a new ultra-strict mindset that you didn't have the balls to implement with the current map, in order to give yourselves another chance while the community you think you're helping suffers yet again.

But quite frankly, the fact that you actually think it was the community that failed says a lot about the government we have on this server. I literally gagged when I read that line. "Blame the people, not the people in power" is the worst mindset a government can take. If this is the kind of government we're stuck with on the server, then I'm glad we're switching maps, because now I really have no reason to stay anymore.

The member list will be culled down to trusted members. Any griefing suspects will be omitted from the initial whitelist. Unfortunately this will also necessitate tighter regulation of friends-of-members. We will run with the initial whitelist for a while, and if there is no griefing we will slowly allow new members in on a probation basis. I hope that we can at least get the support of members on this, even if it means innocent members have to take an enforced break. It's something we decided against a while back in the hope that self-discipline would prevail, but that hope was in vain.


Other objectionable behaviour (anything which is deemed to be offensive or aggravating to other members) will count as griefing. My stance on this is that offending members will get ONE warning, then they're out, though this needs to be discussed and decided on. The server was a lot more pleasant for all when we were more trigger happy with the ban gun.

I really do feel for the people who will lose work - I've lost a lot myself over time - but the accomplishment of your work is still there at the very least, and all going well the map will be made available for people to download and continue in single player or on local servers.


We have recognised admin failings, we are working on admin failings, but it's not the admins who have been griefing. Don't feed me some rot about needing mod powers for self-discipline. The community as a whole suffers because of the actions of a few. The few are not the admins, they are the griefers.

Welcome to BGSF 17. You have chosen, or been chosen... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nWUVgDklmoU

Who is discussing and deciding this stuff? Is the server moving away from donations to be run by a tribunal?

And I am no doubt a "griefing suspect" because I blew up terpy which I thought was an act of war back when we were all developing nations and weren't 100% clear on the pvp rules.

The idea is what the mode is called: Survival Multiplayer. To have it be like single player survival mode, only with multiple players now. On the current map we've had the duplication glitch (A bug that Notch fixed only recently), all sorts of admin spawning (in particular for the city building), and fairly easy mining by being able to /home out. And before the city most people were isolated or in groups of 2/3, and it was pretty much 'single player with chat'. And the territory/wars stuff just didn't work.

Everyone who is active in this thread, in-game chat and, to a lesser extent, Steam chats. The final decision will be made by Wampbit, Bonemonster and I (that is, we accept responsibility for it).

We are not allowed to discuss server donations here, but the server will always remain donation-based. There is no other way to implement it. I'm inclined to give a greater say in the running of the server (as I always have wanted to) to those who financially support it, but we do have to use our judgement. Our judgement has got us this far.


What would be most helpful right now, is if members listed things they would like to see implemented in the new map, feedback on past maps and server games, and other suggestions they feel might be prudent. "I'll lose my stuff!" is unfortunate, but the train is moving on so you might as well give your preference on the next stop rather than harking back to the last.


Also, I'm not impressed by masked accusations at other players. If you have concerns about other players - admin or not - say them openly here, PM myself, Wampbit or Bonemonster, or don't say them at all.

I'm really only willing to accept this map if I and evan get all the diamonds, gold, iron and obsidian we have been mining for the last month and spent so much time into hiding. I'm going to think a bit more before I blurt out anything random.
Thats if I'm accepted though.

Please list to me the ways in which a normal member such as myself can get rid of a suspected griefer. Remember, this is not the real world, this is Minecraft. I can use my pick to grief him... but that'll get me banned myself. I can use my sword to kill him... but depending on what color his territory is, that'll get me banned myself. You cannot self-discipline when your only tools are a sword and an axe and both have a potential to get you banned. I could report to a mod about it, but as you're probably well aware, that doesn't do [censored], does it. I know first hand it doesn't do [censored], as I've been gathering complaints of theft from members, going through the logs, and sending my findings to Bonemonster (something a non-mod such as myself shouldn't HAVE to do), and working with him to catch the thief. But that was all in vain as you guys just decided to say screw it all and start all over again. I don't know what you mods expected us to do to "self-discipline" ourselves, but whatever we failed to do, you're now punishing us for.



I see you and Suffca distilling my arguments down to this, but it's more laughable than anything. First you try to convince yourselves that the community can take care of itself, while you guys barely do anything to help us. Then you blame the community for not doing so, and actually making you *gasp* do work. Then you decide "Well guys, we've failed the community, lets start a new..." wait, no, that's not right. To quote Wampit, "We have retards as members," and should start a new map. There we go, that describes the government this server has perfectly. Blame the people! Blame the people! Blame the people! That's the answer. You think my argument is "Oh noes my stuff," when it's actually "There goes my stuff, yet again, and, yet again, I have no control over this. And what did we do to deserve this? We didn't do the mod's jobs properly enough, and now they're angry." We woke the mods up from their little nappies, and now they're making us start all over again as a result.

The government we have on this server is [censored] pathetic. Wampbit thinks we're retards, you blame us for your failings, and Bonemonster... well he tried his hardest, and I don't blame him for anything. But I sense a ban coming from this server for me now that I've spoken out against you. A ban because one of the sheep you're trying to herd into yet another new pen is escaping. It makes me sick to think this is the government I've been obeying to play on this server. Saying this, I'm reminded that "videogames aren't serious business," and that's true. So, I guess my rant is over, for now at least.

IIRC we got the griefers list down to two members with no other evidence on who it is. You can't blame the mods for not wanting to ban two members when we don't know who it is exactly. It isn't fair.

Everything Antibody has just said was what I've been trying to type for an hour. I agree utterly with him.