[(G-yen)]

Not really. I updated the OP recently. Documenting is a pain. I'm pretty saturated with Morrowind after my last playthrough, but I think I've recorded a lot stuff to fix out of it. I've been primarily distracted by anime and manga lately and I think I will continue to be for a while, though Morrowind has been creeping into my mind a bit. I haven't given up on it yet, in any case.

[Heather Dawson]

Would you mind sending what you've found so far? I have an urge to fix stuff /tongue.png' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':P' />

[Céline Rémy]

I've noticed that playing this plug stops Ms Dren from having her Twin Lamps dialog. Is this deliberate? It is supposed to be available to everyone. Not just Hlaalu.

[Kitana Lucas]

Are you sure you have met the requirements for her to talk about it?
I recently did the Twin Lamps quests with her, (and I wasn't in Hlaalu)

The wiki also suggests that sometimes the topic doesn't appear, even when it should.

Also... which version are you using?

[biiibi]

I had the same result as Pluto when I use MPP 1.6.4/MPP 1.6.5 (not MPP 1.6.5 BTB-Edits) and after you have freed 20 http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Morrowind:Slaves then they'll tell you what password you should use when you talk to Ms Dren.

If you don't see the topic in the dialogue for Ms Dren then try to type this in the console.

addtopic "Slavery"

or

addtopic "Twin Lamps"

[darnell waddington]

There is almost certainly something up with Ilmeni Dren's dialogue. I was unable to get the quest in my last play.

For those that want it, my BetaComment.txt. It's a total mess. After loosing my last one, there are probably even more things recorded in multiples. And not everything in there is strictly meant for the UMP or well explained (some floaters that are particularly bad just got 'wtf' type comments. But here, have at it. Proper documentation hasn't progressed very far due to previously stated saturation, and I sure don't care to clean it up.

http://pastebin.com/A81NbVyY

[Emma louise Wendelk]

Thanks Arsuru for sharing those finds! Now get to work Trancemaster ha!
Trance I hope you find time to make your own little MPP addon with Arsurus fixes and all that stuff you have found, and dont just add that to Rebirth.

[Elle H]

Good point. /smile.png' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':smile:' />

I think most people want to have it optional, so they who want to still can use MPP 1.6.5 BTB-Edits.

[Horse gal smithe]

I will try to find time to do a small addon after I'm done with MR 2.1 /smile.png' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':)' />

[Jake Easom]

I just found a small error in MW that I don't think has ever been addressed before. Two NPCs in the Telvanni Tower in Vivec have been miscast as Hlaalu. Tolmera Renelin and Dals Sadri are both classed as mages, but they're not Telvanni as they obviously should be. I was going to change them to the right faction in UL, but I think it's better done as part of the patch project.

[Johanna Van Drunick]

While I imagine they were meant to be Telvanni, there are all kinds of reasons I can see them being Hlaalu, from a lazy mistake to a quest that got cut. This is the kind of thing that – from a developer's point of view – is questionable. Your mod will take priority over the patch in the load list, so you should do what you want. Not everyone will use the patch anyway, though I thank you for bringing it to my attention.

[Soph]

They could be NPC's that have been expelled from Great House Hlaalu or they just pretending to be expelled and somehow was being accepted, because they're actually spying on the Great House Telvanni. If they're expelled and who will notice that in the Great House Telvanni, because that's the only Great House that doesn't pay attention about who is being expelled or not. Of course this could be a good story for a quest or something.

If that's correct what Stuporstar just mention then this belongs in UMP or you could have a UL-patch for these NPC's that must be loaded last in your loadorder.

In cases like this one I wish Wrye Mash had the same feature you have in Wrye Bash with Mashed Lists.esp and that's to import/merge factions, races, hairs, eyes etc into the Bashed Patch, 0.esp. I can only hope I'll able to use such a feature in my life time though.

[Ashley Clifft]

one thing i noticed - telvanni councilor quests with the MPP require a rank of mouth. Without the patch, you just have to be in telvanni regardless of rank. Is that a legit change? i'm guessing it's probably fine, since the hlaalu quests that originally didn't even require house membership were changed to include house membership.

[Nina Mccormick]

I think changes like this are a bit questionable. This isnt patching things, this is changing game content.

[Richard]

I tend to agree with this sentiment. Could we know the logic used with that change please?

[Ownie Zuliana]

But Therana's quest does require you to be Mouth in the unmodified game. You can look it up in the CS. I ask that people confirm these things before reporting and/or jumping on the wagon.


Yes, it does change it, and yes, it is questionable. I can't tell you why this change was made because I didn't implement it and there doesn't seem to be anything in the readmes about the Telvanni quests. My guess is that other than consistency with Therana's quest, you are directed to some powerful (if not nearly as expensive compared to Therana's rewards) items that you can just keep, so it's a bit of a barrier gameplay-wise. Logic-wise, it makes some sense that the Telvanni councilors wouldn't just give these quests to anybody. Although one could argue that they might not want to give them to someone else's mouth, or that a low ranking member might be less of a threat since they'd probably want to earn points in the House and wouldn't likely betray.

As for the Hlaalu quests, it only makes sense that Edryno Arethi would only give those quests to Hlaalu as you are directed to her by Nileno Dorvayn.

So there is your logic. What was intended for the Telvanni? Who knows? While what should be done about the Telvanni quests may be questionable, I don't see much of a problem with it and I see no problem with the handling of the Hlaalu quests.

[Alyesha Neufeld]

In this case I happen to agree the logic makes sense, however I think the patch project should stay patching things, not introducing its logic.

[Angelina Mayo]

In the case of the Telvanni, Hlaalu or both?

And it's for changes like this that I'm reevaluating the whole patch. So if anyone thinks anything current is questionable, you should discuss it. I'd rather not change the game too much, but at the same time some of this stuff you can tell probably should have been corrected by official patches, like the Hlaalu quests. I think I should consider these kinds of things as the official patches leave a lot to be desired and the main goal should be functionality, though I'm fine with reverting the patch to something more bare-bones.

[barbara belmonte]

From what I remember Quarn included every bug report back then and that means; floating stuff, quests, factions, NPC almost every aspect of the game, but everything else that he couldn't fix ended up in the MCP.

So I disagree to some point, because not everything are not changing game content and the purposes was to fix everything that could be fixed. He also listen to modders concern about the compatibility with their mods IIRC.

I've mention this before (I think it was in that thread Quarn jump in and announced his retirement of MPP last year. Anyway what I suggested then was to have one UMP x.x.x.esm for fixing things like floating stuff and other things in the game world. Also have one UMP .esm/esp, UMP quests.esm/esp and UMP misc.esm/esp which must be loaded after UMP x.x.x.esm to make it work, because I know there are still things in Morrowind that hasn't being fixed despite the use of the MPP x.x.x and it doesn't matter what version you're using the bugs are still there.

I don't know what you guys say, but I think we definitely need a serious discussion about how the UMP should work and why I said this is quite simple because it makes sense if UMP correct things in-game (NPC, factions, quests etc).

I also suggest that UMP could have the same criteria as UOP+USKP has today, which means that modders cannot request that UMP should have compatibility with their mods instead UMP will fix things in-game and if a mod have issues with UMP then a patch is required (it doesn't matter who is making the patch) for UMP and the mod. Just my 2 cents. /smile.png' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':smile:' />

[Len swann]

Honestly, quorn may have implemented too much. The change to resist paralysis, for example. I've already stated that I'd try to make a modular version. As for mod compatibility, that isn't something I plan to address and I agree that modders should make patches if needed.

[Dominic Vaughan]

Except for those annoying cellname changes. Wrong cellnames are hard to notice ingame while the changed names impact big modding projects heavily. The stuff you do to a cell just wont show up ingame because MPP changed its name ... a mod I am working on covers pretty much every single cell in the game, a compatibility patch is hard to make.

Arsuru or someone else: Are those chellname changes well documented and where can I find this documentation?

[J.P loves]

When did this happen? I don't see anything in the documentation/CS. I recall people talking about the Druegh-jigger's Rest possibly having the name corrected, maybe some others like adding a name to Indoranyon's exterior cell, but I don't think anything was ever was ever actually put into a patch. I wouldn't do it for a general release, but if it were to be done for any reason there wouldn't be a lot of cells that need to be patched. I think it should be up to you. It's a lot easier for modders to review the patch than for me or whoever to keep track of the mods, and I sure don't want to include a bunch of patches for things people might not even use.

[Jesus Sanchez]

Well, this is the only example I stumbled across:

vanilla: http://www7.pic-upload.de/24.02.13/mnflka8do69a.jpg
patch: http://www7.pic-upload.de/24.02.13/f4pd7qjkpezd.jpg

He seems to have deleted the vanilla cell (!) and made a copy with the correct name - everything I placed there actually didnt appear in the game. This is the only cellname change I have found for now, but I remember older discussions about this and I am sure there are more of them.

I cant find documentation about this in the readmes so if someone knows wich cells are affected, pls let me know.

[..xX Vin Xx..]

Ah, I see. I knew there was at least one other cell that was talked about, but I couldn't remember any others. I wonder why only this one was changed though. Well, that will be undone by time I get a release out. I've notified BTB and asked him to remove those changes from his current edit since it's severe enough. I don't know of any other cell-name changes that would have been made though.

[Lyndsey Bird]

Probably. That's the reason why I suggested to have an esm/esp for Morrowind it self and a patch for each expansion (Bloodmoon, Tribunal) plus the http://www.elderscrolls.com/morrowind/expansions/ (Entertainer, Bitter Coast Sound, Area Effect Arrows, Helm of Tohan, Master Index, LeFemm Armor, Adamantium Armor, Siege at Firemoth), but I haven't understand why MPP was an esm and not an esp perhaps someone can clarify that.

Here is a little information about the UOP and USKP.

http://www.gamesas.com/index.php?showtopic=1445588 - Oblivion patch
http://www.gamesas.com/index.php?showtopic=1399201 - All released DLC has a separate patch and I think Knights of the Nine (KotN) was included too
http://www.gamesas.com/index.php?showtopic=1398731 - Shivering Isle patch

USKP - Skyrim (are the only one with a BSA due to the problem with language string files)
UDGP - Dawnguard DLC
UHFP - Hearthfire DLC
UDBP - Dragonborn DLC

I didn't bother to link for USKP since almost everything hasn't been around to long, but http://afkmods.iguanadons.net/index.php?/forum/345-unofficial-skyrim-patches/ is the main forum on AFK Mods.

I thought that was changed in MCP. I've notice it that too and I think it was 1% per enchantment point with MCP (up to 1.6 or 1.8), MPP regardless what MPP version you use.

Sorry for being a newbie. What do you mean by a modular version?