There's a bit of a bug in Glistel's AI package. After the Thieve's Guild quest Arrow of Extrication, she stays in the Oak and Crosier 24x7 because there's no closure on the condition. This has a bit of an impact on A Brotherhood Renewed. Other than the fact she's permanently in the Oak and Crosier after the TG quest (and never sleeps, eats or anything), I don't think there's any other impact, but you did do a whole bunch of AI package fixes, so you might want to tweak this one too. Just a suggestion...

The conditions on her pack also block her from being able to train you in sneak, although there's a pretty good chance that you're past what she could train you in by that point in the TG. All it needed was another condition set to <= 40 and she won't stay stuck over there anymore.

She's never been much of an influence on ABR though.

Nope, very true. She stood right in front of the door and I snuck right by her I was just a little concerned as I had my dinner via Talasma

Do I have to uninstall FCOM and then install this; reinstall FCOM? I followed one of the installation order instructions.

Thanks for the suggestion. It worked and everything looks good now.

Arthmoor, what else needs to be done before a release. Anxious to see it all done

Nothing I guess. It seems nobody wants to fix the dwarven arrow issue, so unless someone steps up soon, it's going to stay broken.

I was trying to contact some people who might be able to help with this, I will see if I can talk to them again.

What happens to be problem with the Dwarven arrow? I might be able to help.

See Arthmoor's post, above. Basically when you drop a dwarven quiver, it either disappears altogether or you see an animation of one arrow flying across the room, but the quiver lands on the floor ok. I've had both happen. I believe the thought was that the original fix that Arthmoor quotes above was done with an old version of Nifskope that broke the mesh. We need someone to replicate the fix listed from the UOP log, above, with the new version of Nifskope to remove the bug. Corepc knows the fix, but can't help us right now - too busy!

Well someone who knows how to fix it is better than getting nowhere I can probably pull it off if someone can tell me what needs to be done. Assuming it can be fixed in Nifskope anyway. If it needs Blender work, I'd be pretty well done at that point.

Ya, I just wanted to get the ball rolling

Location: Two Sisters Lodge Upstairs
There's a mesh error above one of the windows, the right one in the room furthest to the right, above the chair with ID 0002efe5

I tried fixing this, but the changes I made didn't do anything (I saw no changes to the mesh in Nifskope), so I was obviously tweaking the wrong values. However, when I compared the old arrow.nif to the version from the UOP, I noted several changes. The most obvious and easiest to fix is the collision mesh on the quiver. The collision mesh on the middle arrow (I guess this is the arrow that gets cocked) was also changed. In both cases, the collision mesh was lengthened to encompass the arrows. I think the fix to stop the bowstring from passing through the arrow is to rotate the mesh on the single arrow component (cocked arrow) of the whole mesh. I tried rotating the mesh, but the values I was changing didn't have any effect.

In terms of making the quiver ride lower, I figured that this would be changed by changing the CofG (called center) of the quiver, but once again, when I changed these values, I didn't see any shift to the CofG.

I don't know anything about the UV mapping...

Would comparing the original nif to the one from the UOP help any? If your Nifskope skills are better than mine, then perhaps doing that would fix the issues. That's assuming that the problem is indeed a result of the version of Nifskope that the original UOP was saved as. If not, then you would be simply replicating the problem

Since there wasn't a yes/no the first time I'll try again, with this suggestion.

That depends on whether or not that mod initially used the same version of nifskope to make the changes.

Also, I looked at the vanilla mesh compared to the current UOP fix. The havok box is the same size in both. The arrows in the vanilla mesh look like they're physically longer.

Making any sense out of UV maps in Nifskope is like trying to translate Sanskrit.

That arrow replacement pack looks like an interesting approach. The first thing I notice is that the collsion mesh of the quiver was shifted towards the arrows so that it doesn't extend all the way to the bottom of the quiver. I guess I could load this up and see how it behaves, although my character is hardly an archer (the pointy end goes towards the target and the feathers are in my hand, right?). I don't know if the UV maps were fixed or not. Mind you, I doubt I ever saw what the original issue was anyway! Anyway, I'll load this up and see what happens when I drop the quiver and when I nock the arrow (just realized it's nock not [censored] - once again I display my knowledge of archery ).

The author does say the mod is free for use...

That mod modifies the arrows too much from the originals,

Yes, and it doesn't fix the problems either It's better. When you drop the dwarven arrows, nothing goes flying across the room and the quiver doesn't disappear (although I'm not having that problem in my current game anyway). However, the UV mesh on the bottom of the quiver is off a bit and the bowstring passes through the arrow when nocked or cocked or whatever I did get a good laugh at the fact that the board censored my previous post! The ebony quiver has a problem when dropped - not that we were looking at using that anyway. The daedric quiver works quite well and I like the sound when dropped - I think it should have a faint metalic clink, which I think the UOP removed.

To fix the issue with the bowstring passing through the arrow, I would extend the collision mesh so that it encompasses the entire arrow. So, you might be able to use this mod as a starting point, as ThumperZ suggested. Personally I'm not concerned with the UV mesh - how often do you see the bottom of the quiver anyway? I must admit I haven't tried going into 3rd person while wearing the quiver to see if it really stands out...

So you mean that the fix present in the UOP is bugged itself? And you want the fix either replicated or fixed from the present one?

Sorry for the questions. I'm a bit confused about the situation.

It needs to be started fresh from a 100% untouched vanilla copy of the mesh. The fixes mentioned in the UOP changelog applied, and then verified to make sure the current version of nifskope doesn't simply break it again.

The size of the collision box isn't the issue. The arrows themselves appear to have been moved. The material type on it may be wrong if it's supposed to give off a metal clink and doesn't.

Honestly I can't recall one way or the other if I've ever lost a dwarven quiver when dropped. I can't even remember if I've ever tried to drop one. But that's supposed to be why it needs fixing.

I thought a couple of us (Migck & X'tyfe & myself) had confirmed the problem. But before we go through another round of fixing stuff that ain't broke, I'll load up the original dwarven arrow meshes and see what happens. As I said previously, I only had the whole quiver disappear in one of my games, and when it was disappearing, I was in an area created by another mod, so the problems may have been with that mod and not the meshes.

The noise on the dwarven arrows is fine, as far as I know. It is the daedric arrows that seem to have wrong material type. I know there was a complaint about the sound they made when dropped and I thought you changed that with your fix (the little fix you posted earlier in this thread). I thought daedric arrows and quivers were metal, but they sound more like wood than metal. I'm using your fix for the daedric arrows.

Ok, did some quick tests. The dwarven arrows are screwed up - in fact, they're weird. The quiver does not disappear when dropped, nor do any arrows go flying across the room - so that is the bug introduced by the UOP. However, they are ridiculously long - they look like they're not stuck in the quiver all the way. Here's a http://i855.photobucket.com/albums/ab118/AndalayBay/Oblivion/arrowcompare.jpg showing glass versus dwarven. Now I can see why the collision mesh wasn't touched but the arrows themselves were made shorter. When you draw the bow, the flights on the arrow don't even show - it looks like you ate the end!

So basically we need the arrows to look like they do in the UOP version, but without any of the odd effects when you drop the quiver. It might just be a matter of shortening the arrows, I'm not sure. I didn't see anything weird with the UV mesh on the bottom of the quiver.

Now that I know what we are comparing to, I would say that the arrow replacement pack doesn't do a bad job with them. However they don't look like the originals...

Ok, so somehow the length or position of the arrows was shortened using nifskope, and after saving the work the bug did it's magic and broke some sort of collision relationship. No doubt the same sort of thing that caused signs to fall off of their posts. I know the sign bug was fixed, but do I dare ask if they fixed this issue too?

Fixing them is absolutely possible without NIfSkope. I will just have to adjust the placement of the arrows and export it over the copy in the UOP. No NifSkope required. I saw somewhere that the UV unwrap needed to be fixed. I can do that too.