Once you're in the Nine Divines faction they shouldn't be complaining about you trespassing. If they still are, that would be a minor bug, but by itself not really enough to warrant another update. It's been long enough since I've played through KOTN that I don't recall how soon you get put in that faction.

At a guess, it could be due to the "Continue if PC near" flag on the AI pack Silana shares with the other guy in Leyawiin. That flag has been known to cause odd behavior before.

I would congratulate and thank you again for the last fix for "Caught in the Hunt"; I played through this mod yesterday and it worked like a charm and this time Kurdan killing Aleron with no delay. I thinkl you added something in the last update 3.2.10!

Only thing it could have been then was MS08AleronLocheScript. That's the only thing even remotely related to Caught in the Hunt that was changed in 3.2.10.

:wacko: It's great that updates still come out for ods since it shows that people still care. But man is it hard to keep up with the latest updates. I don't think I'm up to date with this one. I'll have to check when I get a chance.

Congratulations for this unofficial patch that upgrades the unofficial patch that patches the official patch (and who says that game betatesters don't earn a living? lol).

You're a member in the KotN faction as soon you have talked to the prophet about the topic "http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Oblivion:Pilgrimage" and finished the quest I think.

So then is this something that should be redone since it was supposed to have been in the UOP already?

Isn't that your call?

Not entirely, and especially not since it's had two years or longer to sit like that. Changing that book would change any instances of it that have been used in mods, for instance. A lot of people may have looked at it and said it's not a skill book, therefore it doesn't hurt to add one.

Hmm, I can see that. But I'm sure even back then this was considered ya know.
I guess this is a hard to decision then. Does anyone know of a such an instance where this would be unbalancing?

I wonder about the choice. Why Children of the Sky? It almost seems anti-speech. "The most powerful Nords cannot speak without causing destruction. They must go gagged, and communicate through a sign language and through scribing runes." Another thing to consider is the availability of the book. I don't think Children... is too bad from that point of view - you wouldn't want to pick one that's available everywhere.

I don't think providing a fifth book for Speechcraft would be too unbalancing. I don't imagine Speechcraft would be a skill that too many mods would mess with, but I could be wrong. I think The Lost Spires provides robes that boost speechcraft, but that's all I'm aware of. Mind you, I'm not a major mod runner

It would be nice if a book was designated as a Speechcraft skill book that it be placed in an area that wouldn't make it stolen for everybody. In other words, one of the guildhalls or something like that. Three out of the four Speechcraft books would be stolen if you actually wanted to add them to your collection. You're certainly tresspassing if you just want to read them and one wouldn't be accessible to anybody that wasn't in the thieves guild.

Perhaps this is why it was considered an oversight that needed fixing.

Well, I don't know whether my mod loadout could be considered in any way typical, but I've got that book available in ten places and in three vendor lists in addition to the locations in Oblivion.esm. By contrast most of the skill books are only added at most... 4-6 places and no vendor lists. My load order is probably not terribly typical, but clearly the book's not going to be tough to get in some modded games.

Vac

That's what I was worried about with that book - I thought I had seen it in lots of places, but wasn't sure. I'm wondering if Five Songs of King Wulfharth would be a better choice...

I don't think there's an issue that adding a fifth speechcraft skill book into the game would be terribly unbalancing, if it was a ) in the game as a skill book from the beginning and therefore as rare as the other skill books, or b ) added by a mod that only made it available in as few places as the original skill books.

As it is, I don't think any of the rare books are going to count for this: they're too widely distributed among mod added loot, vendors and houses, while most mods I have used (Blood and Mud aside) are still pretty picky where and when they make skill books available.

Vac

Edit: stupid smilies

Yep, I checked my own load order and that book is in several mod added places, including one I added myself in A Brotherhood Renewed. The book is rare enough with the vanilla game that it would fit the purpose, and I think the whole sign language thing is probably why Kivan thought it was fitting. It would end up being the easiest skill book to find by far though since OOO adds it to several places, which means all the FCOM players would end up with it being readily available.

That's why I was suggesting Five Songs of King Wulfharth. I thought the songs were another mechanism for telling stories... But if a lot of mods add that one too, then it defeats the purpose... I agree about the sign language part of the other one, but I think it's too abundant, even in vanilla.

It's a shame that there aren't as many Skill Books for Speechcraft, but really - there is no 'obvious' choice for one, and mods can be adding any book not thinking it's a skill book. I really don't think this fits into UOP well at all. If there was an obvious choice, maybe, but there isn't.

I suspect it didn't get added because Quarn & Kivan came to the same conclusion, but neglected to remove it from the changelog.

Very likely. Or it could be they just forgot to actually make the change or something. In any case, I think it's sat long enough that it's not something that should get added now. If it had been given an editor ID by the devs that made it a clear-cut case, that would be different.

Random side note - For the longest time I swore your user name was spelled with just one o

I think that's fair, perhaps there should be a note of some sort explaining that this was never changed

Here's one I found sometime ago, I made a note about it and forgot.

http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Oblivion:Greyland from the http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Oblivion:Raid_on_Greyland quest has it's music set to Default instead of Public.

Greyland isn't a public space, so there's no reason to expect it to have public music.

So your saying the that the UOPs edits to for example Arvena Thelas' House and Arvena Thelas' Basemant are incorrect because they are not public places?

No, because in that case I'd wager it was thought best to use "public" to mean "its in a city", whereas Greyland isn't in Leyawiin, it's just nearby. It's not exactly a major issue so if other isolated places like that are tagged public then that one should be too for consistency if nothing else.

There is the UOP fixes this for Faregyl Inn, Gottshaw Inn, Odiil Farm, Sakeepa's House (in Aleswell), The Sleeping Mare, Harm's Folly, Gottlesfont House, Irroke the Wide's House (in Pell's Gate)

Opps double post