Speaking of the next update, any estimate on when it will be good to go?

Soon, probably in the next few days. I'm currently going over the readme and adding links to any UESP bugs that cover stuff in the list, and also marking the UESP with any that have already been fixed that seem important enough.

Which leads me to one that's listed here: http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Oblivion:Countess_Alessia_Caro

At the bottom in the notes section. The reason she does that is she's got two AI packs covering that. One to send her to eat with Mahei and Numeen, and one to talk to Numeen elsewhere. Since the game is emphatic that she's racist against beastfolk, this makes no logical sense, but technically isn't a bug since the package are doing as directed. Still, lore-bugs are just as bad and I think this should get fixed too.

I decided to go through all NPC pages on UESP to see if any problems were found that are not labeled as fixed by the UOP, here are the ones that I found sorted by place,

Anvil:

http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Oblivion:Heinrich_Oaken-Hull
http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Oblivion:Corvus_Umbranox
http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Oblivion:Llensi_Llaram
http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Oblivion:Didier_Aumilie
http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Oblivion:S%27shani
http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Oblivion:Quill-Weave
http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Oblivion:Wilhelm_the_Worm
http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Oblivion:Dumania_Jirich
http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Oblivion:Trevaia
http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Oblivion:Laralthir

Bravil:

http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Oblivion:Dro%27Nahrahe
http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Oblivion:Fathis_Aren
http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Oblivion:Hans_Black-Nail
http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Oblivion:Carandial
http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Oblivion:Henantier
http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Oblivion:Ita_Rienus
http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Oblivion:Kud-Ei
http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Oblivion:Dro%27shanji
http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Oblivion:Daenlin
http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Oblivion:Gilgondorin
http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Oblivion:Cosmus_the_Cheat
http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Oblivion:Wretched_Aia
http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Oblivion:Andragil
http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Oblivion:Brokil_gro-Shatur
http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Oblivion:City-Swimmer
http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Oblivion:Kurdan_gro-Dragol

Bruma:

http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Oblivion:Karinnarre
http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Oblivion:Suurootan
http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Oblivion:Jorck_the_Outcast
http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Oblivion:Alga
http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Oblivion:Baenlin
http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Oblivion:Camilla_Lollia
http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Oblivion:Edla_Dark-Heart
http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Oblivion:Gromm
http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Oblivion:Istirus_Brolus
http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Oblivion:Jantus_Brolus
http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Oblivion:Jearl
http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Oblivion:Jorundr
http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Oblivion:Saveri_Faram
http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Oblivion:Selena_Orania

Cheydinhal:

http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Oblivion:Naspia_Cosma
http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Oblivion:Burz_gro-Khash
http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Oblivion:Keld_of_the_Isles
http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Oblivion:Deetsan
http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Oblivion:Eilonwy
http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Oblivion:Trayvond_the_Redguard
http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Oblivion:Uurwen
http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Oblivion:M%27raaj-Dar
http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Oblivion:Telaendril
http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Oblivion:Vicente_Valtieri
http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Oblivion:Oghash_gra-Magul
http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Oblivion:Shelley

Chorrel:

http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Oblivion:Kurz_gro-Baroth
http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Oblivion:Lum_gro-Baroth
http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Oblivion:Malintus_Ancrus
http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Oblivion:Lazy_Kaslowyn
http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Oblivion:Nermus_the_Mooch
http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Oblivion:Prior_Maborel
http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Oblivion:Nardhil
http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Oblivion:Eugal_Belette
http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Oblivion:Francois_Motierre
http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Oblivion:Gaturn_gro-Gonk
http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Oblivion:Honditar
http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Oblivion:Rimalus_Bruiant

Imperial City:

http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Oblivion:Hieronymus_Lex
http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Oblivion:Bothiel
http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Oblivion:Gaspar_Stegine
http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Oblivion:Tar-Meena
http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Oblivion:Amusei
http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Oblivion:Dynari_Amnis
http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Oblivion:Fathis_Ules
http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Oblivion:Mandil
http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Oblivion:Othrelos
http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Oblivion:Adrian_Decanius
http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Oblivion:Dul_gro-Shug
http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Oblivion:Elisa_Pierrane
http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Oblivion:Geem_Jasaiin
http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Oblivion:Romana_Faleria
http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Oblivion:Winson
http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Oblivion:Cicero_Verus
http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Oblivion:Edgar_Vautrine
http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Oblivion:Gelephor
http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Oblivion:Jensine
http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Oblivion:Maro_Rufus
http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Oblivion:Sergius_Verus
http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Oblivion:Urbul_gro-Orkulg
http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Oblivion:Varnado
http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Oblivion:Velus_Hosidius
http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Oblivion:Brielus_Gawey
http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Oblivion:Restita_Statlilia
http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Oblivion:Agarmir
http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Oblivion:Atraena
http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Oblivion:Collatinus_Vedius
http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Oblivion:Gemellus_Axius
http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Oblivion:S%27rathad
http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Oblivion:Thamriel
http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Oblivion:Luronk_gro-Glurzog
http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Oblivion:Pennus_Mallius
http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Oblivion:Trenus_Duronius
http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Oblivion:Evangeline_Beanique
http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Oblivion:Shady_Sam

Kvatch:

http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Oblivion:Oleta

Leyawiin:

http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Oblivion:Janonia_Aurunceia
http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Oblivion:Tsavi
http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Oblivion:Cingor
http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Oblivion:Ahdarji
http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Oblivion:Kantav_Cheynoslin
http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Oblivion:Silana_Blandia
http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Oblivion:Bugak_gro-Bol
http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Oblivion:Margarte

Skingrad:

http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Oblivion:Janus_Hassildor
http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Oblivion:Ah-Malz
http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Oblivion:Maglir
http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Oblivion:Parwen
http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Oblivion:Vigge_the_Cautious
http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Oblivion:Reman_Broder
http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Oblivion:Marie_Palielle
http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Oblivion:Agnete_the_Pickled
http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Oblivion:Erina_Jeranus
http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Oblivion:Falanu_Hlaalu
http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Oblivion:Ambroise_Canne
http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Oblivion:Bernadette_Peneles
http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Oblivion:Carsten
http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Oblivion:Davide_Surilie
http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Oblivion:Dul_gro-Shug
http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Oblivion:Elisa_Pierrane
http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Oblivion:Else_God-Hater
http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Oblivion:Eridor
http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Oblivion:Eyja
http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Oblivion:Glarthir
http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Oblivion:Salmo
http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Oblivion:Shamar
http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Oblivion:S%27rathad
http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Oblivion:Toutius_sixtius
http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Oblivion:Undena_Orethi
http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Oblivion:Uuras_the_Shepherd
http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Oblivion:Vontus_Idolus

Aleswell:

http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Oblivion:Sakeepa

Blankenmarch:

http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Oblivion:Floyd_Nathans

Border Watch:

http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Oblivion:S%27thasa
http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Oblivion:Zabhila

Cloud Ruler Temple:

http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Oblivion:Ferrum

Hackdirt:

http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Oblivion:Vlanhonder_Moslin

Harm's Folly:

http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Oblivion:Corrick_Northwode

Pell's Gate:

http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Oblivion:Schlera_Sestius

Water's Edge:

http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Oblivion:Eduard_Retiene
http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Oblivion:Jolie_Retiene
http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Oblivion:Marie_Alouette

Imperial Bridge Inn:

http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Oblivion:Davela_Hlaren

Inn of Ill Omen:

http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Oblivion:Manheim_Maulhand

Roxey Inn:

http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Oblivion:Brucetus_Festinius
http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Oblivion:Rigmor
http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Oblivion:S%27razirr

Shrine of Clavicus Vile:

http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Oblivion:Ma%27Raska

Shrine of Sanguine:

http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Oblivion:Engorm

Fort Caractacus:

http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Oblivion:Ancotar

Goblin Jim's Cave:

http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Oblivion:Goblin_Jim

Good lord, how is there so much stuff that hasn't been caught yet

Time permitting, they'll all be done. Guess the next update won't be quite so soon now, but it'll be a big one. I caught a few of those already in passing, but geez, who knew.

Lol ya, it took me a good hour to go through all that, worth it though. It's not like no one caught them, they were but just not by the right people.



Just did the Kvatch quest again, I have some more nitpicks for you.

The quest gets stuck at The Battle for Castle Kvatch (MS49) stage 60, I reported this before but was told it had to do with another fix of some sort in the UOP. This does not make sense to me at all, why fix something by breaking something? Regardless it's still happening.

If all/any of the Imperial Legion Soldiers do not die, they return to the chapel with their weapons still drawn forever. I'm wondering if they should even persist forever there as well like they do?

Tierra wears Iron Gauntlets, Iron Boots, Steel Greaves and a Steel Shortsword instead of chain armor and a silver longsword like the other guards in the game

The weather in Kvatch is always raining. I think this one is debatable, it's like the eternal flames that are burning in Kvatch and the Bruma Mages Guild.



Edit: It seems the other Kvatch soldiers have odd equips too that do not match any other guards in the game

Berich Inian: Iron Boots, Gauntlets, Greaves, Steel Longsword
Jesan Rilian: Steel Longsword
Ilend Vonius: Steel Longsword
Merandil: Silver War Axe

Since there is much more to correct before the release of the next update.

So why not also change the required version of UOP 3.2.0 to 3.2.10 at the same time. I could wait a little longer.

For what it's worth, not all of that seems to be real errors/bugs.

For exampleIf we're talking about the thing in the notes, it seems completely and utterly intentional: they even recorded dialogue for it.If we're talking about the beds here (and that's the only thing I'm noting for Brucetus and Rigmor), I don't really see how you're going to fix that without either changing the layout of the Roxey Inn and adding beds (conflicts ahoy!) or having them sleep during the day (which is just a bit wierd).I have to admit I had noticed this and just assumed it was designed this way so that the player could never "do business" in Hackdirt. I mean... it's not like you're anything other than exceedingly unwelcome there. Is it only me that saw it this way?

I haven't checked the stuff in the cities, just the ones below the cities. I'm not even sure if this kind of thing is welcome or not, so I'll wait and see what the reaction is to my comments before I continue.

Vac

Oh ya the ones in the cities are real AI package bugs for the most part, NPCs not doing what they are designed to because of something else happening.

I admit that some are nitpicks, but they should be quick fixes

I'd not consider this a problem. They're just using whatever's left that's serviceable after the siege, and it's not out-of-character equipment. Decentius Opsius in Leyawiin is even more non-standard, and he really has no excuse.

That sounds possible, but as you pointed out yourself other guards, specifically captains also follow this:

Burd
Danus Artellian
Caelia Draconis (also does not own clothing other then armor)
Dion (also not essential for his related quest)
Langley (also does not carry Anvil castle key)

I guess the point I was trying to make is that it's just not consistent. They should all follow with Chainmail armor and Silver Claymores

Edit: None are skilled in Light Armor!!

I'm sensing a return to the discussion of what constitutes bugs and what's just inconstancies etc. I hope we don't go there - and I hope UOP will continue to focus on actual bugs.

You are right, this is my own opinion. And to settle this I have made a separate patch with the guard changes. Like the Imp and Boar resistances, I think this should be optional so people can decide for themselves.

http://www.tesnexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=33893

If it's optional, it's not UOP. You shouldn't label it as such. It's just your idea of how the game should be.

It uses fixes from the UOP, it's meant to be an optional non official addon. If people object, then I will remove the UOP fixes.

I would just say that it requires UOP to run, or some such. I have no idea how those in charge of UOP at this point (Arthmoor? Corepc?) feel about the fixes being "used", but regardless it's definitely not UOP.

I swore this was fixed before, but if not, I'll look at it again. That Kvatch quest is about as stubborn as Caught in the Hunt.



Maybe Bethesda figured they'd all die and didn't count on what to do with them if they survived? I dunno. It's hard to say what was intended by that. At the very least, even if they stay to act as extra support, they shouldn't be standing around with their weapons drawn forever.



Both of these appear to be deliberate. Consider that she's not even an Imperial, which are the standard race used as guards elsewhere in the game. Kvatch just took a giant kick to the head, they're using whoever and whatever they can get their hands on for protection.



I don't even understand what you're saying here?



Some might be, some might not. I haven't even had a chance to go through the list yet. Anything that's going to require more than AI packs being fixed or dialogue conditions being fiddled with isn't going to happen. I'm not dropping a bunch of new beds in an inn that doesn't have the space for it just to fix an overpopulation problem.

The Hackdirt one seems debatable. They obviously made him a publican so you could rent the room. Whether or not he should do business with the PC is up in the air. His wife will, but even that doesn't necessarily make sense. So which is the bug? Probably neither.



I don't mind, so long as it doesn't turn into a shouting match over the legitimacy of what is and isn't a bug.

@X'tyfe: It's always been my understanding that Kivan never cared if people incorporated UOP fixes, and I certainly don't, but he did object to it being labeled with UOP in any way, and I can't see any good coming from that kind of confusion. I haven't looked at your download but I have no issue with it as long as it's not presenting itself as part of the UOP, official or otherwise.

opps double post

Fair enough, I figured ones like that wouldn't be doable. I didn't mean to start any trouble over this, just wanted to pitch in you know.



Oh no, I never meant it like that. For compatibility sake it uses and requires the UOP, that is all.

I'm not sure what sort of fixes would require parenting it to the UOP, unless you're trying to use stuff that it creates in order to patch things.

If you installed the UOP 3.2.10 you also need to install the UOP 3.2.0 which is required for the latest UOP version.
That was I read the http://www.tesnexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=27710. :read:

What I mean was to update/upgrade the required UOP version from 3.2.0 to 3.2.10, because there is no full self installer above the UOP 3.2.0 version. Please correct me if I'm wrong about this.


Thanks for the reply and the UOP-team of your work on this. :goodjob:

I think the only things are the Bruma Great Gate class that the soldiers there use. and a few changed stats on them.

From the descriptions of them, some of them seem fairly definitely bugs of the "oops" kind, I don't believe there's any issue with fixing AI packs with impossible conditions or containers intended for NPC x being owned by NPC y a couple of miles away.I have no desire for that either. Civility is just fine by me. :laugh:

Vac

I still don't get it. You need to install 3.2.0 first, you can't install the UOPS first because you'll just overwrite everything the UOPS does.

I don't know what "required UOP version" you're referring to other than that.

I think he want's a 3.3 Release... :shrug:

Okay, I feel like I have been away for way too much time. Could someone link me to the post with the couple of UOP Supplemental files than need to overwrite AWLS? Has AWLS been updated since then? That would be convenient...


Edit: I am finishing up three (going on four) months of downloads today.