sixchange is useful

While reinstalling Oblivion I checked the DLC BSAs for conflicts with the vanilla BSAs. The SI BSAs has 18 files that replaces (or should replace) vanilla files and the KotN BSA has 1 file.



Someone with a better understanding than me of these things, should look into the changes these files make AND if they are used by Oblivion (which my tests show they are not).

I did check the paintbrush nifs, and they use 3 different textures where vanilla and theUOP only uses 2. But I don't know if the weight issue is related to the nif.

If the changes warrant it, they should probably be included in the UOP

Arthmoor,

Re. 3.2.11 testing: I checked Deetsan and Trayvond again in the Cheydinhal MG and at 5 am there were sleeping, but there seems to be an issue with getting the npc's to use the beds downstairs. This time Orintur and Uurwen were awake because there were no free beds upstairs. There are a whole bunch of free beds in the basemant but it seems the npc's aren't setup to use those beds. Don't know if that's fixable or not - it might be getting way too complicated... I didn't get there between 10 and 2 so I can't report on whether Deetsan was reading or not.

I can confirm the fix for Schlera Sestius (Pell's Gate). She was sound asleep in her room at 4am or whatever. As a vampire, it's always nice to have another food source

I'm miising the Mesh for Umbra, when I install the OMOBS.esp from the UOP... :mellow:

Not the UOP fault, but it is OMOBS Fault most likely.

Yep OMOBS Is pointing to meshes from OOO..will get that fixed and release here in a few minutes..

You could also just use bash and then right click on omobs and select export stats, then when you build bash patch. Do not select the plugin, but instead Select the OMOBS.CSV listed at the bottom of Stats screen in Bash patched. That should fix it has well.

Yeah, it's the same thing with the Stand Alone version :nope:

*Never noticed before, I've Been using "Mighty Umbra" mod...

Shouldn't either of those be using the stock mesh path anyway?

I'm doing a Reinstall, I previously had rooms in the Testinghall with no floors or walls, now with Just Oblivion.esm, the door isn't attached to the wall, same after adding the patch...

*In the Weapons Room

That sounds like the kind of thing that happens when you've got an ESMified ESP file somewhere.

Not to My knowledge, I only had Oblivion GOTY, and the UOP & Mods patches installed... :confused:

Should definitely figure out what the deal is there, I suspect files copied to the SI packaging that didn't need to be included. Probably the most important part of that are the skeleton meshes.

Unfotunately I don't know how to go about comparing the content changes in nif files.

Correction to that:

The vanilla also uses 3 textures, it is only UOP that uses 2.

Also the SI paintbrushes are almost more bugged than the vanilla. While they do have weight, their havok is placed wrong, making them float above the ground.

I still think it would be a good idea to check what the other files change.. I don't know anything about skeleton.nifs.

EDIT:

I compared the files by content. These are all files that are different.. there where more files included that conflicted, but they where identical.

What I mean is I don't know how to compare one nif to another and get some way to have it tell you what the differences are. The fact that they conflict indicates there ARE differences, but what those are is anyone's guess. The nifskope people would probably be the best ones to ask about it.

My install is a total mess atm, getting ready to start up a new game and cleaning out and reorganizing. Got rid of at least 3gigs worth of garbage, that's 4 years worth at least so I'm not testing right now. But looking over the posts about AI packs not working right. It's clear that at least a few may have been set the way they were to possibly prevent these issues, but Beth being the lazy developer that it is just didn't bother to clean up their mess. However, can they be fixed, or is it not worth it?

The approach I've been taking to testing this is: #1 brief check on non-important stuff to see if the changes are working. If they aren't, then I've been just passing the message along for Arthmoor to decide if it's worth it or not. It's nice to see NPC's travelling about and not standing on their beds all day (one of the bugs we're trying to fix), but it's hardly crucial to game function. #2 slightly more detailed check on NPC's packages that have a bit more of an impact. For example, stores remaining closed all day or NPC's not offering training. So far, we've had it go both ways. We might be having a bit of trouble with the Best Defense in the Imperial City, but I'm pleased to say the fix to Ambroise Canne in Skingrad is working - he now offers training when raking the backyard of the Surile brothers.

So, if we can fix their packages without a negative impact then I think we should go ahead. However if these fixes break something else, then we make a call on whether to proceed with the "fix" or just drop it. If you can help test, that'd be great. I've only got one set-up, so what works for me may not work for someone else. My setup is fairly close to vanilla, however. I don't run overhaul mods.

Perhaps Beth did decide that some of these packages should be disabled or not implemented. If that's the case though, then it's unfortunate that they left them in place with conflicting conditions so they don't work. At this point, we're going on the premise that if the package is present, they intended that they function...

Well if the Best Defense situation can't be resolved as we have it now, fixing it so they both go do their thing in town on the same day would resolve it. I think it's mainly that they separate on the weekends to go do other stuff and the door locking parts of the AI are screwing up. I'll see what I can do there. Probably just have Maro go do his wander while Varnado is at the temple and then have them both come back at the same time.

If Deestan and Trayvond don't have beds and all they need is to be told to sleep downstairs, that can probably be arranged. It's not that huge a deal to figure out who to redirect with a new sleep package. The guild is obviously too crowded to drop more beds upstairs though.

I haven't had a chance to go back on Loredas or Sundas to see what the guys at BD are up to, so you might want to hold off on that if you'd like to get the separate packages working. It'd be a bit different to only have one in the shop occasionally. That's why I didn't specifically report it in a separate post. If it's too much bother, then your suggestion is fine.

Re. Deetsan and Trayvond - yes I think it'd be best to tell them to sleep downstairs. If you wanted to get fancy, you could have Deetsan take over Falcar's room once he's gone, but that might be too much work... I just think it's nice to have a quiet guild at night and it is handy for vampires I still haven't made it back at the guildhall between 10 and 2 to see if she reads or not. Does she need a book in her inventory for that to happen - because I don't think she has one...

I've got lots of confirmed minor fixes, but they really don't impact anything. I'll hang on to those and perhaps list them all in one post at some point. One funny one: if three steps constitutes wandering, then Ah-Malz in Skingrad FG is wandering now At least he's not standing on his bed for hours on end, but he doesn't wander much. This is one of those minor ones that I'm not too concerned about. As I reported previously, I am pleased to say Ambroise Canne in Skingrad is fixed - makes it much easier to get training from him.

This is one "feature" that I wish we could fix: getting NPC's to stop attacking horses. I'm sure this has been looked into and probably isn't fixable, but it's one I have a lot of trouble with. I don't care about the stable hands, but in Skingrad, I've had to reload several times to keep Reman Broder from attacking either my horse or the ones at the stable. This is a problem because he's a trainer. I know the work-around for City Swimmer (who steals and gets caught) is to provide her with food, but I don't know of a work-around for the horse attacks. Is there a fix that I'm not aware of?

I see, I think having them both go out on Sundas makes sense, It's the weekend and all so they are taking a break. Maro may not be too religious so he goes to the Arboretum while Varnado does his thing. As far as Deetsan and Trayvond, if there are beds not being used then use them.

Just my opinion anyways. Wish I could do more.

I hope i can remember this for when I open that quest just in case something is messed up.

Arthmoor,

An update on 3.2.11 testing:

I went back to the Best Defense on Loredas and Sundas. As reported previously, on Loredas Varnado is in the store but it remains locked and you have to break in to barter with him. You can barter with him, but he will tell you you shouldn't be there when you're done. However, on Sundas the store is open for business with only Maro present! I suspected this because I was sure on some previous play-through long ago I had gone to this store with only one vendor present. So it's seems possible to set it up so Varnado can also run the shop by himself on Loredas if you can figure out what the difference in the structure of the two NPC's is, but I don't know what faction or ownership issues there are. Just passing along my observations...

Also, did you see my post, just above? Any comments?

I'll have a look but they're both using the exact same AI pack to govern their vendor schedule. What you're seeing is probably the usual erratic behavior with merchant AI. Again, it seems it'll be easier to just make sure they're always both in the store when it should be open.

I saw the horse thing. I've never once had random NPCs just up and decide to attack horses. Mine or otherwise. That almost sounds like a faction problem, which I can't see being an issue with the UOP since it doesn't mess with horse factions.

No, they don't have the same AI package. Read the bug section at the bottom.

http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Oblivion:Maro_Rufus - http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Oblivion:Varnado in the http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Oblivion:The_Best_Defense

It's probably that one of the packages has got the checkbox that controls locking/unlocking of doors checked, and the other one hasn't. Or, all the doors belong to Maro, so he locks them when he goes out.


Is this the same as the Edla Dark-Heart problem? She used to attack horses, because she has an AI package that gets her to retrieve arrows. If a horse has been shot, it might have an arrow in its inventory.

Eloise

I don't think the horse thing is anything to do with the UOP, it's just something that I'd like to see fixed by the UOP if possible. However, I am wondering if it's a side effect to Ulrim's horses. I never had so much trouble with NPC's attacking horses as I've had on my last few play-throughs in which I've been using Ulrim's. I had heard it was something that could occur periodically, so I thought it could happen in the base game. If people aren't seeing this, then perhaps it is unique to Ulrim's and I can fix it. The one thing that Ulrim's does that might be a factor is he adds horse meat to them so you can harvest it from their corpses. Maybe that combined with the fact that horses are already members of the prey faction is enough to set NPC's off. If so, it'd be simple enough for me to remove the items from their corpses. I know I don't use it anyway.

I've had some NPC's with fairly high responsibility attack horses and it surprises me. As I said in my previous post, the main ones I'm concerned about are Tamika, the Surile brothers and Reman Broder - they've all attacked horses in my games. I've also had the stable hands attack, so the guy in the Imperial City stables is dead, the one in Leyawiin and I've had the one in Skingrad killed previously.

What do you think? Is this something that you see in the base game or do you think it's Ulrim's? As I said, if it's Ulrim's, I can fix it. I might remove the ingredients from horses anyway...

Re. Maro and Varnado - please have a look at Varnado's AI package. Maro does have a package called "aaaServicesEditorLoc8x12LockAtEnd" which locks and unlocks the door - Varnado doesn't. If you could configure this so that Varnado unlocks and locks the door when Maro isn't there, then I think the problem would be solved.

We may need a second test patch it seems