[Sarah MacLeod]

Protip:Avoid Serebii like the plague when it comes to anything related to competitive pogeymans.

It isn't really tedious,it takes a while to figure out but if you lurk on Smogon for a few days you can get the basics down and give it a go on Shoddy(that way you avoid the tedious EV training in-game).

But there's still the actual IV/EV bit which I just don't like. If I didn't have to worry about IV/EV training and could use my favorites without having to worry whether or not they'll even be able to get a hit out, then I'd enjoy it.

[..xX Vin Xx..]

Protip:Avoid Serebii like the plague when it comes to anything related to competitive pogeymans.

It isn't really tedious,it takes a while to figure out but if you lurk on Smogon for a few days you can get the basics down and give it a go on Shoddy(that way you avoid the tedious EV training in-game).

What's wrong with Serebii? Just wondering...

[Causon-Chambers]

I would enjoy competitive more, but I can't use a team full of my favourites, and that turns me off it. It's like tiers in fighting games except the lower tiers have absolutely no chance against the higher tiers even if it's the most skilled gamer in the world.

[Antonio Gigliotta]

But there's still the actual IV/EV bit which I just don't like. If I didn't have to worry about IV/EV training and could use my favorites without having to worry whether or not they'll even be able to get a hit out, then I'd enjoy it.

There are 5 serious tiers,I'm sure you could find somewhere your favorites fit in.

Maybe not all on the same team,but you can use nearly any Pokemon(assuming Spinda isn't amongst your favorites).

EV's/IV's are really simple,in-game they can be a serious pain..but that's why I play Shoddy.

@Antibody..well,I'm about to use a word I hate to use but most people on Serebii are total noobs,and their Pokemon of the day thing tends to be a Smogon set copy/pasted with a few bad changes made and a terrible anolysis.

[rheanna bruining]

There are 5 serious tiers,I'm sure you could find somewhere your favorites fit in.

Maybe not all on the same team,but you can use nearly any Pokemon(assuming Spinda isn't amongst your favorites).

EV's/IV's are really simple,in-game they can be a serious pain..but that's why I play Shoddy.

My Favorites:
-Infernape
-Blaziken
-Tyranitar
-Absol
-Seviper
-Toxicroak
-Yanmega
-Bidoof


And those stat's may be simple to you but when I actually tried competitive playing and went through with training efficiently, I was yelling at the game out of frustration.

[Jordan Fletcher]

My Favorites:
-Infernape
-Blaziken
-Tyranitar
-Absol
-Seviper
-Toxicroak
-Yanmega
-Bidoof


And those stat's may be simple to you but when I actually tried competitive playing and went through with training efficiently, I was yelling at the game out of frustration.

Tip:no one really does EV training,use Pokesav or play on a sim like Shoddy or Pokemon Online.

Also,all of those pokes but Yanmega and Bidoof are very usable..Yanmega can't really be used because it's BL by Smogon tiers,and so it's in a bad position of being banned from UU and not being good enough for OU in most cases.

And well..Bidoof is Bidoof,I don't need to explain do I?

[Rachel Briere]

Tip:no one really does EV training,use Pokesav or play on a sim like Shoddy or Pokemon Online.

Also,all of those pokes but Yanmega and Bidoof are very usable..Yanmega can't really be used because it's BL by Smogon tiers,and so it's in a bad position of being banned from UU and not being good enough for OU in most cases.

And well..Bidoof is Bidoof,I don't need to explain do I?

Well, that's just another reason for me not liking competitive play. I don't want to use a team that is all high tier or whatever. I want to mix it up and use different things. Just using standard murder machines that have been optimized is boring to me.

[victoria gillis]

Well, that's just another reason for me not liking competitive play. I don't want to use a team that is all high tier or whatever. I want to mix it up and use different things. Just using standard murder machines that have been optimized is boring to me.

Most every game you can say these are the best skills,these are the best spells,these are the best cars,these are the best characters,ect.

Dunno what to say,guess it just isn't for you.

[Betsy Humpledink]

Most every game you can say these are the best skills,these are the best spells,these are the best cars,these are the best characters,ect.

Dunno what to say,guess it just isn't for you.

Most other games also have it balanced enough so that even bottom tier characters and what not can still put up a fight against the higher tier things. It's pretty much my biggest gripe with "real fights" in pokemon.

But you hit the nail right on the head there. Competitive pokemon isn't for me. Atleast I tried it.

[Matthew Warren]

Most other games also have it balanced enough so that even bottom tier characters and what not can still put up a fight against the higher tier things. It's pretty much my biggest gripe with "real fights" in pokemon.

But you hit the nail right on the head there. Competitive pokemon isn't for me. Atleast I tried it.

low-tier Pokemon CAN compete with the higher tier Pokemon,it's just they're usually totally outclassed by something else.

[Emily Graham]

low-tier Pokemon CAN compete with the higher tier Pokemon,it's just they're usually totally outclassed by something else.

Show me a fight where a team of:
-Bibarel
-Sunflora
-Magikarp
And any other team of three low tier creatures won against a high tier team. Or at least put up a good fight.

[Life long Observer]

Show me a fight where a team of:
-Bibarel
-Sunflora
-Magikarp
And any other team of three low tier creatures won against a high tier team. Or at least put up a good fight.

Magikarp?

He isn't even evolved.

As for Bibarel,he's actually really good because of his ability..getting +2 attack and defense from curse,or +4 special defense from Amnesia goes a long way to make him a great option in any tier if you make a team around him.

Sunflora is indeed a bad Pokemon,but it can work..it's speed just isn't usable really considering it's defensive stats,one of those pokes that has a hard time finding a place.

[Siobhan Thompson]

Magikarp?

He isn't even evolved.

As for Bibarel,he's actually really good because of his ability..getting +2 attack and defense from curse,or +4 special defense from Amnesia goes a long way to make him a great option in any tier if you make a team around him.

Sunflora is indeed a bad Pokemon,but it can work..it's speed just isn't usable really considering it's defensive stats,one of those pokes that has a hard time finding a place.

My point with magikarp is until he evolves he's pretty much bottom tier.
As for bibarel, due to being a normal type he'll just die to the first close combat or any fighting move that go's his way. Considering how popular close combat is he wouldn't last long thus placing him square at the bottom tier.
And sunflora is just to slow to do anything with. Again, bottom tier.

My whole point was that bottom/low tier creatures can't do anything against top tier creatures with how the game is built.
But I'm tired of this little argument/debate. We've both said it before that competition in pokemon isn't for me.

[jennie xhx]

My point with magikarp is until he evolves he's pretty much bottom tier.
As for bibarel, due to being a normal type he'll just die to the first close combat or any fighting move that go's his way. Considering how popular close combat is he wouldn't last long thus placing him square at the bottom tier.
And sunflora is just to slow to do anything with. Again, bottom tier.

My whole point was that bottom/low tier creatures can't do anything against top tier creatures with how the game is built.
But I'm tired of this little argument/debate. We've both said it before that competition in pokemon isn't for me.

CC isn't very common in any tier,while it is a great move not many Pokemon learn it,and it can easily be avoided.

Plus Bibarel has the blessing of having water/normal STAB which is only resisted by Shedinja,Empoleon and Dialga which means regardless of what tier you bring him in he can get nearly perfect coverage in just 2 moves,leaving 2 other spots for some of the really good moves he learns(Super Fang,Curse,Amnesia,Taunt,Twave,Yawn,Ect.)

While he is definitely a niche Pokemon,his great typing both defensively and offensively combined with his incredible utility move pool that laughs at every other water type in the game makes him a serious option in any tier.

Here's a Shoddy Battle log showing my favorite pokemon(Lanturn) totally sweeping some random's top-tier OU team.

Spoiler

Rules: Ladder Match, Sleep Clause, Freeze Clause, OHKO Clause, Evasion Clause, Species Clause, Strict Damage Clause
Wind2008 sent out Marie (lvl 100 Azelf).
hatsunemiku sent out Azelf (lvl 100 Azelf).
Azelf used Stealth Rock.
Pointed stones float in the air around the foe's team!
Azelf used Taunt.
Azelf fell for the taunt!
---
Azelf used Stealth Rock.
Pointed stones float in the air around the foe's team!
Azelf used Fire Blast.
Azelf lost 68% of its health.
---
Azelf used Explosion.
A critical hit!
Azelf lost 100% of its health.
Azelf hung on using its Focus Sash!
hatsunemiku's Azelf fainted.
Azelf used Fire Blast.
But there was no target!
---
hatsunemiku switched in Starmie (lvl 100 Starmie).
Pointed stones dug into Starmie.
Starmie lost 12% of its health.
hatsunemiku switched in Heatran (lvl 100 Heatran ?).
Pointed stones dug into Heatran.
Heatran lost 12% of its health.
Azelf used Explosion.
It's not very effective...
Heatran lost 72% of its health.
Wind2008's Marie fainted.
---
Wind2008 switched in Infernape (lvl 100 Infernape ?).
Pointed stones dug into Infernape.
Infernape lost 12% of its health.
Infernape used Mach Punch.
It's super effective!
Heatran lost 15% of its health.
hatsunemiku's Heatran fainted.
Infernape lost 10% of its health.
---
hatsunemiku switched in Starmie (lvl 100 Starmie).
Pointed stones dug into Starmie.
Starmie lost 12% of its health.
Wind2008 switched in Lanturn (lvl 100 Lanturn ?).
Pointed stones dug into Lanturn.
Lanturn lost 12% of its health.
Starmie used Thunderbolt.
Lanturn's Volt Absorb absorbed damage!
Lanturn restored 13% of its health.
---
hatsunemiku switched in Flygon (lvl 100 Flygon ?).
Pointed stones dug into Flygon.
Flygon lost 6% of its health.
Lanturn used Agility.
Lanturn's speed was sharply raised.
---
Lanturn used Ice Beam.
It's super effective!
Flygon lost 94% of its health.
hatsunemiku's Flygon fainted.
Lanturn lost 10% of its health.
---
hatsunemiku switched in Lucario (lvl 100 Lucario ?).
Pointed stones dug into Lucario.
Lucario lost 3% of its health.
Lanturn used Hydro Pump.
Lucario lost 97% of its health.
hatsunemiku's Lucario fainted.
Lanturn lost 10% of its health.
---
hatsunemiku: YAY\
hatsunemiku switched in Scizor (lvl 100 Scizor ?).
Pointed stones dug into Scizor.
Scizor lost 12% of its health.
Lanturn used Hydro Pump.
Scizor lost 88% of its health.
hatsunemiku's Scizor fainted.
Lanturn lost 10% of its health.
---
hatsunemiku switched in Starmie (lvl 100 Starmie).
Pointed stones dug into Starmie.
Starmie lost 12% of its health.
Lanturn used Thunderbolt.
It's super effective!
Starmie lost 63% of its health.
hatsunemiku's Starmie fainted.
Wind2008 wins!
hatsunemiku has left the room.

[Jennifer Rose]

low-tier Pokemon CAN compete with the higher tier Pokemon,it's just they're usually totally outclassed by something else.

You forgot about one class of players though usually seen in competitive battling; Stop Having Fun Guys. If you try to use anything that isn't heavily optimised, then expect to be told to give up playing pokemon by them. These people are all over the place in competitive battling. I've even heard of a group of those people nearly making someone give up pokemon because of how they acted http://www.penny-arcade.com/2007/07/23/awesome/. These people are the ones who should be not playing the game, not the ones who play it for fun. Good thing that it is still easy to find people who are not like that.

[Eve Booker]

CC isn't very common in any tier,while it is a great move not many Pokemon learn it,and it can easily be avoided.

Plus Bibarel has the blessing of having water/normal STAB which is only resisted by Shedinja,Empoleon and Dialga which means regardless of what tier you bring him in he can get nearly perfect coverage in just 2 moves,leaving 2 other spots for some of the really good moves he learns(Super Fang,Curse,Amnesia,Taunt,Twave,Yawn,Ect.)

While he is definitely a niche Pokemon,his great typing both defensively and offensively combined with his incredible utility move pool that laughs at every other water type in the game makes him a serious option in any tier.

But he dies easily.
Again, can we please just stop this now? Let's all go back to loving/hating the new creatures. Here, I'll start.

I love the new sarcophagus thing and I'm using the holy hell out of that thing. I'm really hoping it'll be ghost/ground.

[Sanctum]

But he dies easily.
Again, can we please just stop this now? Let's all go back to loving/hating the new creatures. Here, I'll start.

I love the new sarcophagus thing and I'm using the holy hell out of that thing. I'm really hoping it'll be ghost/ground.

Your probably right about it being a ghost type but yet again, it turned out that the legendaries were not the types anyone expected.

Also, what is this shoddy battle thing? Is it like pokemon online becuse I got put off from that by the fact that there is no animations whatsoever. When I use flamethrower, I want to see the enemy getting roasted by it, not just to see a health bar snap to the correct amount instantly.

[Jade Payton]

Your probably right about it being a ghost type but yet again, it turned out that the legendaries were not the types anyone expected.

Also, what is this shoddy battle thing? Is it like pokemon online becuse I got put off from that by the fact that there is no animations whatsoever. When I use flamethrower, I want to see the enemy getting roasted by it, not just to see a health bar snap to the correct amount instantly.

Shoddy is actually even simpler then Pokemon Online,no animated health bars/ect.

I find the animations annoying honestly.

I'm not aware of any sim's that have animations past the health bar.

It makes the battles go faster,the animations are cool but they also turn what would be a 10 min battle into a 30 min battle.

[Manuela Ribeiro Pereira]

Your probably right about it being a ghost type but yet again, it turned out that the legendaries were not the types anyone expected.

Also, what is this shoddy battle thing? Is it like pokemon online becuse I got put off from that by the fact that there is no animations whatsoever. When I use flamethrower, I want to see the enemy getting roasted by it, not just to see a health bar snap to the correct amount instantly.

I think everyone expected the new legendaries to be dragons of some sort. Zekrom being electric seems so obvious now though. I mean, he has a jet engine for an ass.

[Stay-C]

Shoddy is actually even simpler then Pokemon Online,no animated health bars/ect.

I find the animations annoying honestly.

I'm not aware of any sim's that have animations past the health bar.

It makes the battles go faster,the animations are cool but they also turn what would be a 10 min battle into a 30 min battle.

I actually like those little animations even if they double the time it takes to battle and I have liked them since generation1 and especially the 'eye lasers' of generation 2 (try using leer with a totodile, after all, what is not awesome about a crocodile firing lasers out of its eyes?).

[A Boy called Marilyn]

http://bulbanews.bulbagarden.net/wiki/Satoshi%27s_Pikachu_to_be_distributed_via_Wi-Fi

[Rach B]

http://bulbanews.bulbagarden.net/wiki/Satoshi%27s_Pikachu_to_be_distributed_via_Wi-Fi

Yup, just puked in my mouth :yuck:

[Trevor Bostwick]

I haven't bought a Pokemon game since Sapphire and from this thread it sounds like it's a lot more complex than it used to be. To me, it never really mattered whether I could beat my friends or anyone in battle. I just enjoyed collecting all of the Pokemon and training them until I got bored. I saw this thread a few weeks ago and decided to dust of the ol' Gameboy Color and play Pokemon Gold. My jaw nearly hit the floor when the game log said that I had spent 178 hours on it. It was then that I remembered how much fun I had just sitting outside playing Pokemon during summer vacation as a little kid. I think playing Pokemon at a competitive level is counterintuitive to what Pokemon is about. Especially when those who just play the game for fun feel discouraged to do so.

[Sxc-Mary]

I think playing Pokemon at a competitive level is counterintuitive to what Pokemon is about. Especially when those who just play the game for fun feel discouraged to do so.

I like playing pokemon competitively, but with everything there's alway "stop having fun guys" guys that ruin it for the casual player.

[Chris Cross Cabaret Man]

Yup, just puked in my mouth :yuck:

I can't see the link, what're the details?