Due to threads about Steam/DRM in Bethesda games being scattered in many game sections across the forum which makes it very difficult to moderate and the number of problems in each one, we have decided to have one thread for the discussion for everyone to discuss various forms of DRM/Steam in one place.

At the present we have no information about what DRM future games being published by Bethesda will have. There has been no formal announcement about it so this thread is merely for expressing your thoughts on various possibilities and expressing your thoughts about Steam and/or other DRM options which may be used.

The following rules will apply to this thread as well as all forum rules already in place.

1. No flaming, attacking or demeaning one another for their opinion about Steam/DRM (pro or con)
2. Any encouragement of piracy will result in a warning and temporary suspension of your account. Admission of piracy will result in a ban. This includes circumventing DRM of any kind.
3. Repeated posts by the same member to say the same thing can be considered spam and result in a warning against your account.

Rage has been confirmed to use Steamworks.

Skyrim has been confirmed to use Steamworks.

Dishonored has been confirmed to use Steamworks.


Steam installation link: http://store.steampowered.com/about/

One of the frequent complaints about Steam is that it can't be played offline. We are providing a link for instructions to do so. If it will not work for you, please contact Steam to assist with the issue.

https://support.steampowered.com/kb_article.php?ref=3160-AGCB-2555

http://www.gamesas.com/index.php?/topic/1224956-unofficial-steamdrm-discussion/page__view__findpost__p__18502385

http://forums.steampowered.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1712878

https://support.steampowered.com/register.php

http://forums.steampowered.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=17



Please note the following forum rule prior to posting:
http://www.gamesas.com/index.php?/topic/724862-forum-rules-and-general-information/

For the purpose of this forum, EULAs are legally binding. Discussion of breaking it, avoiding it or cracking the game will result in a warning or ban of your account.

http://www.gamesas.com/index.php?/topic/1249436-unofficial-steamdrm-discussion/
http://www.gamesas.com/index.php?/topic/1251957-unofficial-steamdrm-discussion/
http://www.gamesas.com/index.php?/topic/1253988-unofficial-steamdrm-discussion/
http://www.gamesas.com/index.php?/topic/1258551-unofficial-steamdrm-discussion/
http://www.gamesas.com/topic/1286613-unofficial-steamdrm-discussion/
http://www.gamesas.com/topic/1331715-unofficial-steamdrm-discussion-26/
http://www.gamesas.com/topic/1359009-unofficial-steamdrm-discussion-27/
http://www.gamesas.com/topic/1382539-unofficial-steamdrm-discussion-28/
http://www.gamesas.com/topic/1416613-unofficial-steamdrm-discussion-29/
http://www.gamesas.com/topic/1453951-unofficial-steamdrm-discussion-30/
http://www.gamesas.com/topic/1476435-unofficial-steamdrm-discussion-31/
http://www.gamesas.com/topic/1477500-unofficial-steamdrm-discussion-32/
http://www.gamesas.com/topic/1486711-unofficial-steamdrm-discussion-33/

So I have a list today of how extremely well physical boxed versions of the PC versions of video games sell as well as digital.

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=765989

http://www.gamesindustry.biz/articles/2014-02-07-pc-and-digital-now-driving-forces-for-sega

The physical boxed versions of the PC versions of video games for SEGA sold way more in 2013 than PlayStation 3 (PS3), Xbox 360, and Wii U combined did.

#1. PS3 + 360 + WiiU packaged sales = 1.2 million
PC packages sales = 2.27 million

#2. Digital sales (￥28.3 billion) now are about the same as packaged (￥28.4).

So physical boxed versions of the PC versions of video games sold published by SEGA is 28.4 billion Japanese Yen and 28.3 billion Japanese Yen for digital. Physical boxed PC versions of video games sold published by SEGA earns 100,000 more for SEGA than digital and is rising. In 2013 the physical boxed versions of the PC versions of video games sold published by SEGA rose from 770,000 to 2.27 million.

Digital is close to a tie to selling almost the same amount as the physical boxed versions of the PC versions of video games. Physical boxed versions of the PC versions of video games will keep on rising and selling well.

In 2011 the physical boxed version of the PC version of The Elder Scrolls V: Skyrim sold 2.4 million or 2.5 million copies on 11.11.11 when The Elder Scrolls V: Skyrim went for sale.

Diablo III in 2012 sold 10 million copies in 3 weeks I think.

Total War: ROME II sold 20,000 physical boxed version of the PC version of the collector's edition.

So any PC gamer that thinks digital is the future this is not true. Digital will exist side by side with physical boxed versions of the PC versions of video games sold to brick and mortar retailer stores world wide.

This year I will be purchasing the physical boxed version of the PC version of The Witcher 3: Wild Hunt and quite possibly pre-ordering 3 physical boxed version of the PC version of The Witcher 3: Wild Hunt collector's edition 1 copy for me and 2 copies for 2 of my real life friends. I am also planning on purchasing 10 physical boxed version of Wasteland 2 when it get's released for sale sometime in 2014 as long as Wasteland 2 does not cost $50.99 dollars (USD), $51.00 dollars (USD) or $60.00 dollars (USD). I have lots of family members and real life friends needing gifting of PC video games this year for birthdays, Easter, and Christmas. Then in 2015 I will be purchasing the physical boxed version of the PC version of Cyberpunk 2077.

Also because CD Projekt RED and inXile Entertainment will be selling the physical boxed versions of the PC versions of the video games that they develop, distribute, and publish to brick and mortar retailer stores world wide 100% Digital Rights Management (DRM) free.

Bethesda Softworks needs to start stepping it up and follow CD Projekt RED's and inXile Entertainment's footsteps to selling 100% Digital Rights Management (DRM) free physical boxed versions of the PC versions of the video games that they publish to brick and mortar retailer stores world wide.

This includes Wolfenstein: The New Order and The Evil Within. Which are 2 video games published by Bethesda Softworks that I really want to purchase for PC in physical boxes containing the physical disc with the video game inside all 100% Digital Rights Management (DRM) free. No CD Keys or Steam, Steam Works Bethesda Softworks please. Otherwise that will be lost sales from me which could earn you a few hundred dollars (USD) from the sales if I did purchase them by 2015.

Also it would be nice for ZeniMax Media Inc. and Bethesda Softworks to finally sell all of the PC versions of the video games that they have developed and published since they have been a video game development company and video game publishing company on gog.com 100% Digital Rights Management (DRM) free. Those are extra sales that can earn Bethesda Softworks money from me.

I know I am not the only PC gamer on these Bethesda Softworks forums websites who will be purchasing multiple copies of the PC versions of video games or will be purchasing multiple copies of the PC versions of video games.

I still think Digital is going to be the future. I like credible sources who focus on the American Markets.. Since markets with physical box versions and digital versions vary throughout countries. My assumption is that sega is talking mostly about Japanese sales.

Physical boxed versions of PC video games sell way more in the rest of the world than in the US. Especially in huge PC video game markets like in Germany and in Russia. At least that's what I read on NeoGAF. In all of Europe it's also pretty big.

I don't know how to link back a quote to the last thread, but someone else reiterated one of my points. If the shelf space at a retailer can be filled with a good that will make a higher profit, the lower margin product will be replaced. Also, inventory turns are a factor. If you have the same console game on the shelf next to a PC copy, I'd guarantee the console game is going to sell more copies. The profit margin is likely similar for the two versions, but if the console version is selling significantly more copies, the retailer is likely to drop the PC version from the shelf and add more copies of the console version. This is exactly what has happened in the US. (Edit - there are obviously more factors than this, but it is certainly a contributing factor).

The more I read and follow this thread, the more I understand the want for physical versions of products, but the more I am beginning to realize why they aren't out there. Honestly, even if Steam was not even in the picture, it would still be difficult to find a physical copy of a PC game, DRM or not, due to how the retail industry works. It comes down to margins/overhead, etc. I won't be surprised if you start seeing more and more digital distribution of console games...it's already starting to happen, though not to the extent of PC games.

Very interesting indeed, and I can understand both sides of the argument, but looking at it objectively what has happened really isn't that surprising. Perhaps the sales in markets outside of the US will make an impact...but I wouldn't hold my breath.

The physical boxed versions of the PC versions of video games selling world wide sell extremely well. In the US not so much. But when The Witcher 3: Wild Hunt and Wasteland 2 gets released for sale later this year at Best Buy, Fry's Electronics, GameStop, Target, and Wal-Mart in the US the video game industry will in the US will hopefully realize that 100% Digital Rights Management (DRM) free physical boxed versions of the PC versions of video games sell extremely well and I will do my part by purchasing 1 copy of the physical boxed version of the PC version of The Witcher 3: Wild Hunt then 3 copies of The Witcher 3: Wild Hunt collector's edition and 10 copies of the physical boxed version of Wasteland 2.

In the next year or 2 I have a feeling physical boxed versions of the PC versions of video games will start appearing more and more in brick and mortar retailer stores again and start selling them 100% Digital Rights Management (DRM) free. In fact there is this PC exclusive only video game publishing company and the name of that video game publishing company is Paradox Interactive today I heard that in the next year they might start selling more and more physical boxed versions of the PC versions of the video games that they publish to brick and mortar retailer stores world wide. Paradox Interactive right now only sells physical boxed versions of the PC versions of the video games that they publish in Europe only for now. Same thing goes for Stardock Entertainment. I heard this from someone on the gog.com forums.

We'll have to see what happens with those two games, but it is possible change happens. Have all those retailers confirmed they will be carrying the games? If so, at all locations? Most of the ones you listed I couldn't find PC games at, but that could certainly just be my area, as retailers do stock items differently depending on the region. If the retailers are willing to take that risk, maybe there will be a change. But, I hesitate to believe copies of the mentioned games will be readily available at all retail outlets until I see it or see something that confirms it.

Even if only a few boxed games reach stores like Wally World (Wal-Mart) it's most likely going to be on Amazon as well.

Good point, if boxed games exist at retail stores they very well may be easily available via online stores that sell physical goods.

Where did you hear this about Paradox? That goes against almost everything they have done in the recent past. They have always wanted to go mostly digital, and their most recent releases have been Steam exclusive; though they don't use Steam DRM, they just use them for the marketplace, multi-player and patching.

If you look at the last thread you will find the play by play interaction between me and Paradox customer service. It pretty clearly matches everything you said except the DRM part...though their plan also seems to include selling 'Steam loader in a box' as imitation hard copies. I swore them off.

I was referring to games that Paradox develops, not the ones they publish.

Paradox Development Studios games are distributed exclusively through Steam, but they do not require Steam to activate or run. After downloading you can copy the game files to a new folder and uninstall Steam and run the game perfectly, until you want a patch, a DLC, or to play MP.

Ah. Well, now I'm complete then. I swore off Paradox as a publisher, and clearly I'm not in the market for anything that is distributed exclusively by Valve.

EDIT: I did a little research in passing and found EU IV, which I think is PDS' latest release, available from two different digital distribution points of sale, so it could be purchased without contributing the distributor's cut to VALVe. Unfortunately it is clearly marked as Steamworks DRM. Looks like exactly the opposite of what you said...they aren't using Steam as an exclusive distributor, but are using it for DRM.

Thing about SEGA is they also own 2K Sports and Visual Concepts, makers of the NBA2K and MLB2K games. Of course everyone is going to buy the boxed versions of these games. I'm one of them. I could actually get NBA2K from Steam for half the retail price but I need to continue by collection. I have a collection of NBA2K games going back to 2K7 (PS2) until the current version on PC. It's also the only basketball game on PC (as well as being the best basketball game in general) lol.

So the video game publishing company Deep Silver has joined gog.com and has deals with gog.com to sell the PC versions of their video games 100% Digital Rights Management (DRM) free on gog.com.

The first PC versions of video games to be released for sale on gog.com is Risen and Risen 2: Dark Waters plus it's DLC's.

Here's the gog.com forums website with people talking about it.

http://www.gog.com/forum/general/games_that_are_unofficially_confirmed_for_release_in_the_future_part_2/page16

Scroll down to the very bottom of the page it's the 3rd comment from the bottom up and some on page 17 as well.

If you know how to speak very good German then click the website and read the comments here.

http://forum.worldofplayers.de/forum/threads/1205880-Kopiersperren-schutz-15-%C2%95-DRM-%C2%95-Diskussion/page11?p=22430169&viewfull=1#post22430169

So Activision, Electronic Arts (EA), Microsoft, Ubisoft, and now Deep Silver are on-board the 100% Digital Rights Management (DRM) free revolution for us PC gamers oh and Nordic Games is as well Nordic Games released Red Faction and Red Faction II for sale on gog.com 1 week ago.

So the only AAA video game publishing companies not on gog.com yet is 2K Games, Capcom, Bethesda Softworks, Rockstar, Take-Two, and ZeniMax Media. Inc. What other AAA video game publishing companies are there that publish and sell PC versions of video games? I know I am missing a few.

Anyways lets hope 2014 is the year Bethesda Softworks and ZeniMax Media Inc. gets deals with gog.com and starts selling every single PC versions of their video games 100% Digital Rights Management (DRM) free on gog.com as well as 100% Digital Rights Management (DRM) free physical boxed versions of the PC versions of the video games that they publish.

Deep Silver moving at all out of their stuck on stupid stance is good news if true. They have a few titles that I would like to buy if they were desteamed.

GoG needs to make some kind of bold move if they want to truly make a splash. Most new AAA games will not be on GoG even by EA, Capcom, 2K and so forth. While I will admit that most new AAA games are crap, boring, or too short and easy, some stand out and will never see the likes of GoG until they are ten years old. (Batman Arkham series for example)

Publishers need an incentive It seems, and the incentive that piques their interest the most is unfortunately DRM. Which gives Steam and advantage. I've offered some ways for GoG to gain an advantage without resorting to DRM, such as raising the price of DRM-free new big name titles. But from the few responses I did get in previous threads it seems that some prefer to have their cake and eat it too. (they want DRM-free AND lower expected PC game prices like the $30.00 - $50.00 range USD)

This little Deep Silver business has led to good news for me personally.

My most played game all time is X3 Terran Conflict. It has an expansion, Albion Prelude, that I have never played. Even though Egosoft maintains a 'no steam exe' in their patch library they have no on-line store and the only source for buying the game was Steam. Since Deep Silver is Egosoft's publisher and this got me sniffing around, I found that Albion Prelude is now available through GamersGate.

Still with Steamworks, but I can buy it from GamersGate, activate it (by involuntarily installing Steam client), get the patch from Egosoft, and then (once again) remove the Steam client (with attendant hassle). Obviously I'd rather buy it direct from Egosoft/Deep Silver with the no Steam patch already applied, but at least I can buy it now.

gog.com did say that 2014 is the year that they are going to step it up big time more than in the last 5 years since they have been in business. Someone said gog.com is going to be talking a whole lot to AAA video game publishing companies this year to bring a lot the AAA PC versions of video games that are sold exclusively on Steam to sell on gog.com as well hopefully. gog.com also said they are staffing up for this.

1 More thing. gog.com said they will also try or might try to get console exclusive video games to get released for sale on PC on gog.com. As well as possibly bringing in mobile phone video games to get sold on gog.com but with zero microtransactions in them. This is a rumor though. So take this with a grain of salt I guess.

Actually in 2013 I think 2 mobile phone video games released on gog.com and also had the microtransactions removed. I think I saw it on Steam as well. Will have to look for them now will probably take me a long time to find them.

Selling brand new AAA video games on gog.com like The Evil Within and Wolfenstein: The New order for $50 dollars (USD) is the sweet spot for me $60 (USD) dollars is $10 (USD) dollars to much.

If Bethesda Softworks sells 100% Digital Rights Management (DRM) free physical boxed version of the PC version of The Evil Within and Wolfenstein: The New Order for $50 dollars (USD) I will gladly purchase 2 physical boxed versions of each video game and a year from now a few more physical boxed versions because I am insane about this and also gift to family members and real life friends. I mean I purchased the PC version of The Elder Scrolls III: Morrowind 6 times but those are all for me not for family members, not for friends, and I did not purchase them on discounts, discounts or receive them for free as gifts or from bundles.

So Bethesda Softworks earned money 6 times from me alone. I wonder how many PC gamers purchase a PC version multiple times like I do.

I have purchased the PC version of Morrowind and Oblivion at three counts each. I have also purchased the PS2 version of Blood Omen 2, the PC version 4 times (2 boxed on PC, 1 on GoG and 1 on Steam), and the GameCube version. So it depends on the game really.

If you are hoping to inflate boxed PC game sales statistics by purchasing it multiple times you may be wasting your money. Logically speaking, DRM infested versions get purchased multiple times as well, and buying multiple boxed versions is irrelevant to whether DRM is on it or not, and also it's the retailer just ordering more of them as a result.

If the game was never released as boxed to begin with then emptying the retailer's store shelves in a way to entice them to order more doesn't apply. Our ONLY hope is for CDPR to actually make a significant move and even then, it does not guarantee boxed versions of games, only DRM free from GoG.

EDIT: I'm pretty drunk and had to lay the smackdown on lots of grammar errors.

I take it as an homage to the old 'vote with your dollars' theory of capitalism. Can't say I give it high levels of theoretical effectiveness, but I won't argue against it either.

No just lower the profit margin for GoG below Steam's and its enticing. Also, I don't think they will be getting AAA devs to release their games day 1 on GOG. If I were GOG, I would try to make it seem that its a smart decision to release the game 1/2 year after release on GOG to double profits. Than slowly move it so its released day 1 as Steam.

This specific post (Plus this specific line) makes me... Well upset.

So you are ASSUMING that NOBODY wants to have a collection of the boxed versions of any other game series at all? (Halo, Elder Scrolls, Sims, etc) and you believe that THESE games don't need a boxed versions because of your assumption of that NOBODY wants to collect these games in their physical-condition-self?

(Please note I'm only talking about this specific argument here. There are more others I can go into and this specific argument here is about being PRO-Physical, rather than PRO-Digital... Not about being PRO-Non-Steam, rather than PRO-Steam).

You must of taken it the completely wrong way with a dose of cynicism. I DO NEED to continue my collection. (no sarcasm attached)

As implied in my complete post I did not buy the cheaper Steam versions of NBA2k because I have a collection spanning back to the PS2 versions.

And I'm implying that people may want to continue collection OF OTHER GAMES as well... You were arguing about the need for physical discs, yes? Having a collection is a major thing about physical discs, as you just say...

So I'm talking about people who also do the same thing with de' Elder Scrolls series, or Halo... Or Mortal Kombat! And so on... There are people out there who do collect the physical discs of these series which means it is GOOD to have the physical discs out there for sale... Plus there was a rant (on another site) about someone who does collect the discs of the Elder Scrolls series on PC (ALL editions of them) but refuses to get Skyrim cause it is on Steam... This person is a Steam-hater, basically, and refuse to buy anything that is on Steam cause he doesn't wish to support it... Therefore, he is highly well upset that he can't continue his collection anymore...

Wont you be upset if you can't continue YOUR collection?