The thread title explains it all, Why did Bethesda have to ruin the game series? It's like capcom did with resident evil, and turned it in to a Posessed Evil.

The enclave was there most likely long before BOS forces, and were mostly armed, and were on the pentagon first off, How did a small scout battalion all the way from cali, have so much ammo and that good of armor in such mighty condition to take down a largely defending force of enclave, if they were even at the pentagon in the first place, How did they manage to do so? How does one [censored] developer throw his dice against the wall and throw BOS all over america at the same time and ruin the fallout series? And I'm just posting this to get you're opinions, what do you think of the BOS throwing? canon or not?

E- Must try harder.


Enclave was never at the Citadel (Pentagon). So most of your post is rendered pointless.Brotherhood sent a scouting party to salvage tech from the ruins and the surrounding area. They didn't even know of the Enclave's presence in that area until they attack on Project Purity.


So explain why you think Bethesda 'ruined' the series. Considering you probably never even heard of the series before playing Fallout 3 I'll bet.


Also, this is the New Vegas forum. should be in the Fallout 3 forum.

How could the best game in the whole series so far (FO3) ruin the series?

I played fallout 1 and 2, and the spin-offs, and you're point is?

I don't think Bethesda /ruined/ the series, but I don't like some of the things they did with it. My favourite game in the series is, and likely will remain for a long time, Fallout 2. There was so much to /do/, and so much to explore. The wastes carried a sense of lethality to them modern games can't match.

I still question why the BoS would send someone so far away when they had so little territory even /near/ that way. Why wouldn't they first send Brotherhood scouts to Hoover Dam (as seen in New Vegas), or the industrial ruins of a city like Houston, or even closer, a lab like Los Alamos or a military base like Edwards or Groom Lake.

All in all, though, I'm glad Bethesda /did/ come along. While I have reservations about Fallout 3's storyline, and New Vegas's rushed release, I'm glad the series was revived.

Questions are: why did the Enclave not occupy the Pentagon when they got to DC? Why did they not do anything with Optimus Prime? Why didn't the Brotherhood drop everything when they came across Enclave Tech (Eye-Bots) going around with a voice saying "I am John Henry Eden, your president." Brotherhood would have done everything they can to hunt down this "president." To stop the Enclave , very least to find Enclave Tech. I have alot more questions.

Edit: Lyon's mission was not to just find tech. It was to track down the Midwestern Brotherhood.

What bugs me is another part of his mission was to scout "super mutants." Why would the brotherhood care about super mutants over 3000 miles away, when they have to deal with NCR on their doorstep? A stupid new race of super mutants is a threat but Enclave in DC arn't?

Good question on why Enclave didn't try to clean out the ruins of the Pentegon. Surely they had the data on what was contained in the building pre-war. They have Vault locations and access codes, why didn't they know about Prime?



Well, what I mean was that they were specifically in the DC area for tech.




Another thing. How did they even hear about them? I doubt there's that much cross country travel and it's not as if they can turn the TV on.

Because TREND, trend ALWAYS changes.

Since I am not hardcoe fans who insist Fallout original game world and story setting, I am OK with it. However I can understand your feeling.

I ll give this 1 shot Enclave were not on there toes when they got to DC, they were unorganized. They were getting slapped out west they booked it east, got to Raven Rock and retooled.

Lyons bos being the second group of bos sent east (only the first by Bethesda) Went across country because lore wise they are walking tanks. They get to DC, the place is crawling with mutants and raidees. They find Prime and decide it s way too lmportant to leave.

Sarah Lyons said they didn t believe the Enclave were there. She said they thought it was an old recording. Bos is too bogged down with mutants that are there to worry about if Enclave is really there.

Best thing for them to do was get the robot working, because Enclave would slap them and they knew it. The rest is history.......

Bos has been in every fo game, they have games made about them. Bos is the bomb. Like it or not there are 2 rouge bos chapters and they both might be powerhouses. I know Lyons bos is, because fo3 had an ending.

They had decades before the BoS showed up. More then enough time to get their house in order.



That is the story. They came across Prime and Project P and decided to stay.




Total Crap. Any mention of Enclave should have set off Alarm Bells for the BoS or at least make them tingly in the pants about finding more Enclave tech.




Brotherhood are in every game yes but Fallout you can avoid them completely. Fallout 2 there are only a couple of them and you can avoid them. Tactics is all about them. So why did they have to be so included in Fallout 3? We are forced to join them.

Fallout 3 broken steel is not really an ending. What if I destroyed the BoS and the Enclave take over? What if I put the FEV into the water? What happened Three Dog, Charon, Fawkes, Tenpenney or blew up Magaton or wiped out everyone in Rivet City? None of those questions are answered :banghead:

Fallout 3 is an attempt to "re-introduce" Fallout to gamers. Fallout had almost killed itself as a franchise with two somewhat lackluster sequels. Thus, Fallout 3 is about bringing all of the elements that made the series so cool to modern readers.

Super Mutants are just as ridiculous as the BOS.
So is the Enclave.

But they wanted ALL of Fallout 1 and 2's cool elements to be present.

*Threw

*Throwed isn't a word..

EDIT:: And how did you manage to use so many , but not use any . ?

I don't get this though. If they wanted to use all of that, why didn't they just set the game on the West coast?

They could have done a better job IMO. Enclave and BoS should not have been the focus of the game. Bethesda came up with two factions of their own: Talon Company and the Commonwealth yet they had little to no role in the game.

They should have taken more time in adding RPG to the game and trying to make sense of canon. I can understand why they wanted elements from Fallout and Fallout 2 but you can't just take something from 3000+ miles away and drop them in DC and they sure as hell should not have brought the Enclave back from the dead and made them a power house.

Fallout 3 has so many plot holes :sadvaultboy: Poor Harold



Agreed. They just wanted it in DC because they have their HQ close by DC. Still I am thankful they did not put Fallout 3 in the west, simply because they would have made a mess of it . They made alot of plot holes in lore with Fallout 3 in DC. They would have destroyed canon if it was set in the west. Based on how they had radiation everywhere and no progress at all after 200 years. If they had done that in the West, it would have crapped all over canon and truelly ruined Fallout.

When did fo2 take place??? I think Lyons bos was sent out in 2254. Lyons says he was a soilder. They say they were in the cw for along time by the way they talked about it. They were there for 20 years I bet.

I'm glad they put the BOS in there, rather than a bunch of NCR cowboys. (meoooooow)

Eastern BOS weren't just a scouting party, like the New Vegas BOS. They were a full-on army, who marched Eastward. They scourged The Pitt, before embedding themselves down when they found Prime. And during the settling, their outlook and mission changed somewhat. They had found the most advanced weapon the old world had to offer, and set about making the surrounding area a safe place to work in. Not all the BOS liked it, they even had a "civil war" over it.

IMO Bethesda's vision adds a richness to Fallout, otherwise it would be a boring tale of NCR sharecroppers scratching a living in the dirt. Oh, wait..

ok fo2 took place in 2241, but I think Enclave hung out at Navaro for awhile until they started getting smacked. Then they left stopped in Chicago. Saw mid west bos, they had the "pure human" thing in common. They hung out there picked up some mid west bos to go to DC to find tech and be pure humans together, but because off all the f ing off at Navaro and Chicago Lyons bos beat Enclave and mid west bos to DC.

So they just hung out at Raven Rock and practiced shooting plasma rifles for a minute then they attacked.

Some of those Enclave were mid west bos. Autum was probaby mid west bos, and thats why he didn t really want to kill everyone.

I know this is not how it went, but if would all fit then.


Besides Lyons was too bogged down to go chasing eye bots. By that time Lyons had gone rouge his chapter couldn t afford to chase eye bots all over. Their only hope was prime..... They knew Enclave would smack them so Lyons had to play it smart and not chase eye bots. Bethesda did give Lyons a brain

Surely a bigger question is: why didn't the Pentagon take a direct hit (or even several) like the White House?

I can't believe how seriously people take this stuff. It's like people who watch Star Trek and then try to learn Klingon.

Enclave left for DC before the fall of Navarro. So they had 30 to 35 years to be set up in DC.

Brotherhoods mission was years later.

Lyons has time from super mutants but not Enclave? Enclave are the greatest threat to the wasteland since the Master and it should not have taken long to see that the DC super mutants don't posse the same threat like the ones back west. Enclave tech alone would have made the drop everything. They hunted the Enclave down back in California why would they not even look in DC? Eye-bots got to becoming from somewhere. How hard is it to capture one and put a tracking chip on it. Or just shoot them all and notice more new ones?

At the very least the Outcast would have been looking for the Enclave.

i think it wud be boring without some spin offs and it was only the capital wasteland branch of the BoS who had decided to help ppl and get rid of the mutants, the overall aim of the BoS was old tech

Midwestern Brotherhood were helping people five years before Lyons was born.

How the [censored] does one man become a mutant then become a [censored] tree? answer that and i will show you a green dog.

Presumably to avoid "lore overdose." Also, it's possible they didn't want to totally **** on whatever the original developers intended for the West Coast. If they had set it on the West Coast then New Vegas would have been impossible since whatever they chose to do would have been completely altered. So, instead, we've got a bunch of "hand-wave" solutions.

* The Super Mutants are created by FEV exposure to a Vault - totally unrelated to the Master.
* The Brotherhood of Steel sent a small army under Lyons to cross the country and take up residence at the Pentagon.
* The Enclave fled from the west coast because they had their ass kicked THAT thoroughly.

and no one really noticed anyone else until later. It's a hell of a coincidence but it's not like they just snapped their fingers and said, "They're everywhere!"



Maybe, but at least in my experience, I don't think Talon Company or the Commonwealth is really all that interesting. Talon Company was a nice set of mid-level enemies but they don't really make any lick of sense. I mean, SERIOUSLY, who the hell EMPLOYS an army of mercenaries in an anarchy? The Commonwealth was nothing more than a blatant rip off of Bladerunner and my least favorite quest in the game.

How does this relate? Well the reason is that there's no REASON to make it a Fallout game if you're not going to use the lore OF Fallout.

If you just want to do a game about Post-Apocalypse RPGing, just call it Wasteland 2 or "After the End: the Shooter."



The same way he became a walking, talking corpse?

The only reason to use Fallout is brand recognition and/or the fact you want to use the lore. Bethasde certainly did the later.



Setting it in an entirely new area was probably a concern too as well. Just because Bethesda is in Washington D.C. doesn't mean that it was their only idea. The Capital Wasteland also has VERY recognizable iconography which makes for cool wandering. It's the same reasoning as to why Planet of the Apes has the Statue of Liberty half-buried.



Col. Autumn's Dad was a survivor of the Old Enclave so it was a while ago given Autumn was a pretty old dude.



I point out that the Lone Wanderer, who you MIGHT object to being essentially just Vault Dweller 2.0 as well, did a **** load more wandering than the Brotherhood of Steel ever did. The BOS is pinned down in the Capital Wasteland and isn't getting any further out. Hence, they were able to encounter the Eyebots and Enclave Radio well before Lyons and company.

Unless they were monitoring all radio traffic (and really - Why would they?) then they would have no idea the Enclave isn't there.

It makes Lyons and his gang look rather stupid for never checking any other channel than Three Dog Radio but it's not impossible. It's also possible the Eyebots only appeared fairly recently and the Enclave was getting ready to make its move.

As for the Outcasts - I'm not sure those idiots could be trusted to tie their shoelaces properly. They had a Gary with a PipBoy and couldn't figure out how to GET IT OFF HIS WRIST without destroying it? Let's not forget they had to rely on the Lone Wanderer to get them any decent tech. All I could think with the outcasts were they were set up shop next to a GIGANTIC Raider's den and didn't think this would impact their efforts.

Say what you will about Elder Lyons but at least the man has semi-decent mechanics and has a secure position.



I actually liked Bethesde's take on the matter. There's no "Brotherhood of Steel" anymore. The organization has fallen into like six different branches and probably more at this point. Everyone is doing their own thing. I like the theory this is because the HQ of the Brotherhood was annihilated by NCR along with their micro-nation.

Bos only had what 150 guys in fallout 1 but they can send a huge army to dc

how does this make sense?

Don't say oh they got more people it's been a hundred years

They don't allow people to join except on rare cases the rest our the decendents of the guys from marisopa

I didn't get the impression Lyon's group was a HUGE one, but I got he impression it was an entire Chapter (i.e. a bunker's worth of dudes like Elder McNamara's guys). Remember, up until the war with NCR, the Brotherhood had their own little country in the middle of their territory. I think Elder Lyons probably only had a couple of hundred guys, which fits with what we see on screen (unlike Megaton, I think the Brotherhood of Steel is actually all that we see on the screen). He then found a bunch of Pentagon Power Armor suits and decided to recruit a couple of hundred MORE guys.

After all, why let the suits go to waste?

Even then, a couple of hundred dudes in Power Armor could probably tear the Pitt a new one without difficulty. I remind you that the Lone Wanderer pretty much single handedly wipes out Lord Ashur's Raider Army by himself. I doubt the Brotherhood of Steel has anyone quite so badass as the LW but I think a few dozen Brothers could probably equal him.

It's only after a war with the Super Mutants (who probably went Brother to Brother in terms of being equals if not more) and the fact they're facing the ENCLAVE that things turn crappy (plus the whole breakway Outcasts sect).