This sums it up your "debate" it is just statements with no weight logic or reasoning.

It was clearly a debate.
It was a hypothetical debate.
My argument was never "IT SHOULD BE THIS WAY" it was more of a wouldn't you prefer this. And you dodged that question with more "perfect world situations and WASTELAND IS A SPIRITUAL SUCCCEEXXOOR"

This was never meant to be an argument, i was just asking questions and apparently all the super hardcoe fallout "fans" would rather have black and white slides conclude their story than a first hand experience playing through it all.

It's not a question of how its possible, i was just curious if people would like this better.

You put words in my mouth and your all your comebacks just collapsed on themselves.

Hmm, have Bethesda make the maps/locations. Get Obsidian to do the writing and storyline. Win-win.

Skyrim had plenty of marvelous vistas. Have you played it?

Every Fallout but for Fallout 3 has ended the way New Vegas does. There are multiple ways to play the game with multiple out comes. To have play after the end after the game world changed so much wouldn't make sense. Say you saided with the Legion, well that means no other faction would be left in the Mojave. So what would be the point in going back? There would be to many changes to account for, and yes I would rather have slides telling me how things workout if I do paths A, B, C, D, ect..ect then just having only one path through the game that Fallout 3 had.

What your asking for doesn't exsist and probably is impossible to implement well .
But in this hypothetical world of perfection then maybe I actually like ron pearlman narrating with the slides in the backround but i'd be open to it.

Ohh but styles all your seeing is the problems booo1!1!1!.
I've said literally every point you made to no avail.

Could you talk about something other then Skyrim, it's not even that good of a game.

In your opinion. Oh, and I wasn't the one who started talking about it

All you do is talk about Skyrim and how it's amazing yet you never tell us why.

I'm starting to think you are not being serious.

I Know! How about a virtual reality environment where you run and jump for real! And pretend to shoot your gun and say all of the dialogue options! And the story never ends so you can play forever!

I said that the world was mostly unremarkable, having a few pretty vistas scattered around the monotonous landscape doesn't change that, and it certainly doesn't make up for bad writing, quest design and lackluster gameplay mechanics.

I have this great game that's just filled with beautiful vistas. It has so many beautiful vistas, I can't even count them all.

It's called "outside".

aah nice somebody applies bias to a reply..
Reread the comment.. It applies to the combined situation of post ending gameplay and reaching max level. (though implied)
So let me rephrase:
Leveling and experience gathering besides questing is an integral part of an RPG.
At some point, IF post ending gameplay is added, quests will have dried up, AND no more experience is gathered it will stop being an rpg and become a sandbox FPS.. In other words post ending gameplay is pointless for any experience gathering, old school RPG.
Your final fantasy comparison doesn't make sense since they , for the most part, have definitive endings.
In TES post ending gameplay (AKA) freeroam does make some sense. Why because the leveling is catered towards it.. (it is the reason why they added the, imho, pointless radiant quest system in Skyrim)

I say have both. Period.

Why would that be so hard for them to collaborate?

Outside has many limitations and weird laws set in place. And the NPC's are ridiculously [censored] to say the least.

Also, most "civilized" parts aren't that beautiful. It is tainted with this so-called society and so-called "civilization."

Which is why we escape in video games like these.

Adding bias care to explain where I done that?And the rpg genre isn't a very defined one ff13 and fallout 3 are so.different. Yet both are rpgs you just saying quests and level up screens =rpg .When my mad max character hits lvl 30 is he no.longer mad max am I no longer playing the role as him?I just can't see your point in ff13 theres maybe 2 sidequests. And you can hit max level and roam around gran pulse so is it just an action game now?

It's a bad idea to continue because of these things:

Nothing changes
One idea is to have nothing change, we complete the main quest and the wasteland remains the same, but the ending sliders say that major stuff did happen, yet we continue on like nothing ever did, it would devalue the choices you made by going "Oh you made this choice? And we said that happened? Well... Screw that, who cares about cause and effect?"

Endings sliders watered down
Then we have hte next idea, we have ending sliders where nothing really major happens, so that when we continue playing it will make more sense because, well, nothing major really happened, no major changes has to be made.
The problem with this is that this isn't what Fallout is about. Fallout is about changing the world, whether you want to or not, it is going to change, watering down the formula just to please those who can't reload a save is a bad idea.

Develop the changes to accurately depict the ending sliders.
This idea, is the best one on paper, but in practice it's a horror. Why? Cause it's a complete waste of resources. Instead of getting a huge game with tons of content in it we get a small game with barely anything in it and dozens if not a hundred variations of after effects they have to design.

None of these ideas are good.
If nothing changes then the ending sliders are made irrelevent.
If ending sliders are watered down then it [censored]s up Fallout's formula.
If they do develop the changes then it's a waste of resources.

Nothing good comes out of either solution.
The best solution is to either end it or have an easter egg continuation.
By ending it we can just reload a save. It's that easy, just reload a previous save and ignore the final quest.
And an easter egg continuation is fine because it doesn't matter, the ending sliders did happen, the world did change, this continuation is just a lulzy easter egg.


But allowing us to continue and see the effects made? It's a huge waste of development resources.
Instead of writing dialogue and quests for the main game they have to spend their time writing dialogue and quests for all the variations of the post-game.
Instead of spending their voice actor money on making a rich main game they have to water it out to fit the main game and post-game characters.

Quoted for truth.

FF13 is a JRPG.

Either you don't understand what I mean... or don't want to understand.. The bias in your reply is that you somehow inherently conclude that I somehow feel the leveling in FO or any RPG with a levelcap is pointless.
I specifically talk about max level combined with post end game play.
My opinion is:Post ending gameplay is pointless, specifically with the leveling as it is applied in RPG's like FO or FF or DQ etc..
Post ending gameplay in TES games is according to me pointless as well but the levelling sort of supports post ending gameplay..

And as for my example: Show me (if I finished the MQ and sidequests in FO3 and reached max lvl) it is still an RPG post ending.. other than shooting randomly spawned enemies (or beating them) thus making it a freeroam FPS.

In what sense? I agree the older ff games are but I fail to see how ff13 is a jrpg?And even if it is so what it's Japanese?

I know what bias means just I fail to see how my post was bias(yet yours wasn't).
Ok say your shooting something ranomd in the wasteland. That would suggest you character is a gunslinger etc.
So what if it's post level cap or MQ ,i'm still "Mad Max" who loves quantum and despises ghouls i'm still ROLE PLAYING.Your logic suggest fo3 is only a rpg when your in the level up screen because "quests" are in lots of games that arn't rpgs like gta assasins creed bioshock.

That's something you can do in any "freeroam" game -- roleplaying mad max, that is -- RPG or not. Characterprogression (of some sort) and gameplay response to said progression (be it through narrative, or purely through abilities) are essential to an RPG, but you can RP (without the "G" in the combination of letters) in any game, or even without a game. When you strip off everything related to an RPG, it ceases to be one.

Exactly, the TES games post-Daggerfall have all had lackluster endings, and Fallout 3's ending, despite the plotholes and lack of elaboration on anything outside of the main quest during the slides, was a heck of a lot more satisfying than Broken Steel's.

I just don't see any real benefit to post ending gameplay that you can't get from a simple reload. Because the developers usually want to maintain canon, the ending and often the entire storyline actually suffer because the people writing it know they can't change the world much in the end due to the many limitations in place.


The thing is, these are supposed to be games and not hiking simulators. RPG mechanics, quests and writing should take priority over the world, and in Bethesda games these things tend to be low quality next to the worlds, which in my opinion aren't that great anyway. Again a few pretty sights do not suddenly make the rest of the world any less bland and monotonous.

Was New Vegas' world majestic? No, but the RPG mechanics, quests and writing were far better than what you get in a Bethesda developed game, and these things are far more important in an RPG and Fallout game than how many pretty sights and filler landscapes/dungeons the developers can shove in.