You still haven't given a reason as to why this is.

Well obviously Bethesda is superior for their worldbuilding skills.
After all, RPG means Really Pretty Game.


Just a general FYI: I don't agree that sandbox should have continuation play, I was just stating a reason why some think Fallout should have it.

So by that logic Crysis 3 (which is planned to be a Sandbox fps) should continue after endgame.

Just because a game can continue after endgame doesn't mean it should; even for a sandbox style game.

Bethesda's world building is so far ahead of the game it's not even fair anymore.

So a beautiful world matters more than the gameplay, dialogue, writing, quests and game mechanics? (And Bethesda is inferior on all of these)

Well english I hate every country in the british ilse being lumped together.
Sorry lol.

Yeah it is a sandbox game and it is an rpg but it's a fallout first and foremost so it will [censored] end.

That's all subjective. You might think a quest or character is amazing and I might think the opposite.

The part i'm lost on is that it "becomes a mediocre fps when you reach max level" is that because all your perks are taken off you when you hit 30 or maybe all your skill points get taken off ? No it's still an rpg your character has been shaped just because there isn't a menu pooping up doesn't mean it is void of being an rpg so is every final fantasy game just a Mediocre action game post max level.

umm what you on about?

Well then isn't the world building subjective too?
I like Obsidians more because it tries to portray itself realistically with it's environment rather than have a ancient tomb which has been untouched for centuries every 50 meters.

So if it's subjective, how could Bethesda be way better than Obsidian?


[edit]

And this isn't subjective, Obsidian managed to make faction reputations, faction disguises and make sure they worked with quests and characters who would shoot you if you pissed them off but would not shoot you if you disguised yourself.
What did Bethesda manage to do with factions? Or "guilds"?
Nothing.
The guilds are even shorter than before and even more meaningless and has less choices.

How could this be subjective?
Obsidian handled factions better, making them interact with one another, allowing you to wipe them out completely or to help them only to screw them over later, they allowed you to befriend or vilify factions and even be forced to use faction armor to disguise yourself.

What did Bethesda do with factions/"Guilds"?

(And no "opinion" crap, let's find out which of the two developers made factions better by using facts and not opinions.")
((Example: If someone builds a bridge out of rope and boards and someone else builds one out of cement with supportive pillars underneath it, the cement bridge would, by all factual means, be better.))


[edit2]

Ah, so now it's opinion.
Well all right then.

I'd still like to discuss which of the two developers is the best at designing though.

In my opinion. I love New Vegas BTW.

The MQ in both fallout 3 and NV take up what? 3% of the games content? (Just guessing) So thats about 13 hours (Average time of a main quest in both games not counting side quests and lollygagging) When someone finishes the MQ they will resort to a recent save and complete the rest of the game am i right? Do all the side quests, find all the easter eggs, Explore and find all the locations, get all the weapons ect, gamble, level up, decorate your house ect ect ect ect........ So might i ask what is the difference between : Going back 30 minutes after completing the last portion of the main quest to do the rest of these things, and simply letting your game continue so you can continue to enjoy the sandbox world. The stories integrity? It's a fallout game thefore it should automatically end after MQ?

To me playing on a save before MQ feels silly, especially when everyone has been waiting on me to engage the final battle for the wasteland for about 300+ Hours worth of gameplay. Just let us continue after the story without the small annoyance of having the Quest still in progress on your pipboy. If elder scrolls can end its mainstory and have the impact known in the world. Fallout can do it and still be a good game.

it is just a small annoyance as you say, so what's the problem? After the main quest, major changes take place to the world, so if everything remains as it is it simply wouldn't make sense....if you can't be bothered doing side quests and the like before the main quest and it bothers you to reload a save game then that's your problem, the game should make sense. And I would say the MQ is more than 3% of the game's content.

edit: in fact it would feel like an anticlimix if I could roam after the game ends with nothing changed.

In fallout at the world isn't usally "impacted" it"s reshaped it is illogical to have the game show you all the aftermath of your choices it would be a new game.

The point isn't that i hate having to go on a previous save and work from there, I couldn't care less and it was never a problem. My point is that weither or not the game finishes or continues isn't a big deal and works both ways. Maybe more one way than the other like it does in skryim. But everyone here seems to think that Fallout should end at MQ's Conclusion and force us to reload a save to play the rest of the content WHICH IS NOT A BIG DEAL. It works both ways and Bethesda shouldn't get negative points for doing something like letting players continue after the Main Quest is over. It's not a big deal.


Last point, After the main quest, the big changes can easily be placed into the world. Just look at broken steel, The jefferson memorial had purified water, and there was some trading going on. Nothing overwhelmingly impossible to put into the game. Lol

So you would rather see the impact you had on the wasteland by 5 or 8 black and white slides than actually playing in it? I personally think the stories are great, but you guys are acting like you WOULDN'T want to play and see the changes you made by the MQ conclusion in the world. If so ill let this topic go. Ill stand by my main point, and that is Bethesda did right in listening to the FANS and releasing a dlc to let us see the impacts we made on the wasteland.

Is that why my faviourite character and playthrough got shoe horned the [censored] out of fallout 3 I just hope broken steel becomes non cannon.

no it doesn't really work both ways. And I never played the DLC's. Plus those changes seem very simple in relation to what would actually be happening. Why don't you just do everything else before you finish the main quest. Hell after the main quest things might change enough that many quests would in reality change or disappear and no longer be available.

you would have to ditch allbbut one possible stories to do so it is just pointless read my last post.

Bethesda's world building isn't that great. Sure they can produce some nice vistas, but these vistas are few and you have to be prepared to slog through twenty minutes of unremarkable terrain to get there. Then there's their dungeon design which is very mediocre, they tend to recycle the same three tile sets, often even entire rooms/sections umpteen times just to fill the world with inane distractions.

Bethesda's philosophy when it comes to world design is quantity over quality, and that makes them the exact opposite of masterful world builders in my opinion. After I saw the first Dragur ruin, ice cave, fort and Dwemer ruin in Skyrim I saw them all. The only unique dungeon I saw mid-late game was Blackreach, which while nice, isn't enough to make me forget the ridiculous number of unremarkable, repetitive dungeons I had to force myself through to get there.

I hate the new fallout fans.

Both your points are from Bethesdas point of view, not so much what would be better and cooler? More of a technical problem really. How hard it would be to create these impacts especially when their are so many different endings?

Lets say for a second you beat NV and and your specefic ending and all its consequences could be seen in your game letting you wonder the wasteland? And this didn't effect side quests and make some dissapear due to the outcome of the MQ (Remember this topic is about FUTURE fallout games, not what have been done already) Would you say to yourself "I wish it just ended with a few black and white slides with a voice over and i could just reload at a previous save!!!!"

Probably not, unless your that deep into your opinion and argument. I love the endings don't get me wrong, but i'm finding it hard to believe that in future fallouts you wouldn't rather have this sort of ending, especially when its a minor change AND FOR THE BETTER.

If theres vista every where then they lose there magic it's treakin' through rubble then looking across at the sunset overlapping mountains that makes it beautiful

In broken steel they had to basically screw enclave supporters up the anus and chose bos pissing of enclave fans .
So Mr.Fantastic how do you solve that?
Or the fact I killed myself yet wake up