GI update today : V - Skyrim

» Tue May 17, 2011 3:05 am

Look at it this way. When you use a dagger, you'll do "maximum possible" damage (as far as that weapon is concerned). The stats are just to represent it's uselessness in regular combat.

That said, I was under the impression that there would be multiple perks for each weapon. This leaves me somewhat concerned now that there may only be one.

I mean, sure, you'll be able to only get maximum damage out of one weapon, but the others will still be too useful. Unless said perk comes with a penalty to other types of weapons, too.

It's more the design philosophy that that kind of thinking points to, that worries me about that info on daggers.

TES games are about "do what you want, how you want," at least insofar as character progression goes. Making daggers arbitrarily more effective than, say, shortswords when sneaking seems to be breaking that design trend.

I guess I'm just worried that Bethesda have removed classes, and added class limitations. Stealth-focused characters use [are better with] daggers. Why? I can write you a hundred archetypes that immediately invalidate that assumption (by the designers), and yet it's apparently coded into the combat system.

» Tue May 17, 2011 11:11 am

I think this update confirms no spears right?

» Tue May 17, 2011 9:44 am

My favorite parts:

The Havok Behavior technology gives the spells more visual flair than we've seen in past Elder Scrolls games as well. If you cast a frost spell, you'll see the effects on the enemy's skin. If you're wielding the flame spell like a flame thrower, the environment will catch fire for a short while and burn anything that comes into contact with it.

Awesome. This will go a long way toward making the spells feel more active, and creating the illusion that they have some real physical roots within the world. Not to mention that it will make them more fun to cast...

Unlike Oblivion, the arrows now violently impact enemies with a satisfying thud. . . . if an enemy gets too close for comfort you can still execute a bash move, which knocks your foe off balance and gives you time to create distance between you and your target. . . . Once you successfully sneak up behind an unsuspecting victim, you can unleash a deadly blow with the dagger, an almost useless weapon in previous Elder Scrolls games that is receiving a major boost in Skyrim. . . . Though the dagger is still considered a one-handed weapon skill, the perks for the weapon are housed under the stealth banner.

Lots of welcome news here... I think all these changes will help to make the stealth gameplay more enjoyable and realistic. I'm a bit worried that high-leveled rogues may be overpowered though. I mean, if your Sneak skill is so high that you're virtually undetectable, and you can supplement that with self-made Invisibility/Chameleon potions, along with powerful weapon poisons, you should be able to destroy many enemies just by taking a few extra seconds to make sure they don't see you before you strike. Which is technically a more realistic system, IMO, but it still may be a bit too strong.

» Tue May 17, 2011 4:29 am

Fixed. :hehe:

True. I read through the line that mentioned the different weapons thrice just to make sure I didn't miss anything. I am disappoint

@Denizar: No, it just doesn't mention spears specifically. It COULD be under two-handed weapons.... It could. Really. DamnitBethesdajustsayit'sin!

» Tue May 17, 2011 9:29 am

A lot of the combat seems to be influenced from Deadly Reflex... which is a good thing, cause that mod rocks!

Especially the bash.

I was thinking the exact same thing. Especially after I saw "timed block" and "bashing". Heck, even the finishing moves sounds like the Deadly Reflex system in some ways.

I wonder how Skycaptain must feel...

Also, the magicka system sounds interesting. And stealth just sounds like Fallout 3's system, which is what I was expecting anyways.

» Tue May 17, 2011 1:49 pm

Great update.

The only thing I find slightly disappointing is that everything really does seem to be pointing toward no custom spell making. The uncertainty with respect to combining different spell types. The repeated reference to "85 spells" rather than effects. (And yes, I know Pete said, "more like effects," but that's still just saying it will be like effects. It doesn't prove spell-making is in the game.) The newly rock/paper/scissor strategy involved in spell types in combat. All of that makes it seem like custom spells that combine effects are now a thing of the past, or just wouldn't work.

Don't get me wrong. The new system, ultimately, effectively at least, will probably be more visceral, enjoyable, strategic, and intense. But I will miss the feeling of having created and named my own spells if they aren't in. I'll live, and all together the cumulative effect of all the changes will be a positive one for me. But part of me will miss it.

» Tue May 17, 2011 2:50 pm

Throwing axes and ball and chains are both very viking-like weapons.

Throwing axes for not-hunting = very impractical.

» Tue May 17, 2011 1:39 am

Is it just me or the stealth system is not explained enough: okay, I understand that if an npc thinks he/she heard something will enter the alert stance and will come to look and I can hide in the dark if I'm fast enough (Thief series like). But what if the npc DID SEE me, but in order to get to me he/she must go upstairs or sometyhing that means he/she lost eye contact of me, will the npc still see me through walls and shadows and teleport right where I am hidden? Simply put, can I re-hide in the dark once I have been seen?

You better be able to to re-hide in the shadows, the npc should either just try to be more cautious or try to find you and maybe even go run and warn some of his friends and they all try to hunt you down. I would love to show myself and lure someone into the shadows trying to find me, and then of course I will sneak up and silence them.

» Tue May 17, 2011 4:57 am

Emperor style force lighting FTW!

Runes!!

Finally magic will fill like magic!!!

» Tue May 17, 2011 1:50 pm

Spears are an iconic nordic/viking weapon, so, what the hayell.

» Tue May 17, 2011 9:00 am

From what I gather, they have removed a lot of redundant features in Skyrim, like Classes, and Attributes.

Now I think that they have removed the combined spells altogether and spell effects have replaced those previous compiled spells.

Now you cast fire spells, but the way that you cast them, defines what types of fire spells you are going to cast, so tapping the right hand button would throw a fire bolt, but holding it would start a flame thrower effect, and using both hands would cast a fire ball, and I thing holding both hands would start a fire storm, or something like that.

You can also place runes with magic effect on them on the ground as some sort of magical traps.

The more I think about the new system, the more I like it.

» Tue May 17, 2011 12:52 pm

Fantastic update!

Though the dagger is still considered a one-handed weapon skill, the perks for the weapon are housed under the stealth banner.

I guess we now know that Blade/blunt has been changed to 1-handed/2-handed weapons. Or it suggests it. I'm actually kind of excited about that.

:celebration:

» Tue May 17, 2011 6:09 am

Okay, now for the hi-res image of the frost troll

» Tue May 17, 2011 11:15 am

Great update.

The only thing I find slightly disappointing is that everything really does seem to be pointing toward no custom spell making. The uncertainty with respect to combining different spell types. The repeated reference to "85 spells" rather than effects. (And yes, I know Pete said, "more like effects," but that's still just saying it will be like effects. It doesn't prove spell-making is in the game.) The newly rock/paper/scissor strategy involved in spell types in combat. All of that makes it seem like custom spells that combine effects are now a thing of the past, or just wouldn't work.

Don't get me wrong. The new system, ultimately, effectively at least, will probably be more visceral, enjoyable, strategic, and intense. But I will miss the feeling of having created and named my own spells if they aren't in. I'll live, and all together the cumulative effect of all the changes will be a positive one for me. But part of me will miss it.

I'm pretty sure Pete tweeted that custom spells will be in, but I'm not positive. Maybe someone can verify?

» Tue May 17, 2011 8:54 am

He's spot on about the dagger. If you creep up behind somebody and have a dagger, it should be a huge x attack bonus. Very sensible improvement, I like it.

» Tue May 17, 2011 4:49 am

It's more the design philosophy that that kind of thinking points to, that worries me about that info on daggers.

TES games are about "do what you want, how you want," at least insofar as character progression goes. Making daggers arbitrarily more effective than, say, shortswords when sneaking seems to be breaking that design trend.

I guess I'm just worried that Bethesda have removed classes, and added class limitations. Stealth-focused characters use [are better with] daggers. Why? I can write you a hundred archetypes that immediately invalidate that assumption (by the designers), and yet it's apparently coded into the combat system.

Their are no class limitations they have already said that instead of classes they will leave it up to you how you play if you play with a longsword more then a dagger then you will be better with a dagger period if you use sneak alot more then you rush in and fight face to face then your sneak skill will increase while your defense will not it will be up to you to define your charecter not them.

» Tue May 17, 2011 1:05 pm

I usually play an archermage. Wonder if you can cast spells while welding a bow. Hope so

Storm

The article made it sound like you won't be able to cast spells with two-handed weapons equipped. Not sure about bows, here's hoping.

Also, on page 2 spell casting doesn't make sense. It says they aren't talking about "combining" more than one spell, but then 2 paragraphs down they talk about having a ward spell in one hand and a fire spell in the other. What do they mean about combining then?

» Tue May 17, 2011 6:04 am

What I don't understand is why stabbing a guy with a dagger should damage him more than stabbing him with, for instance, a shortsword. Maybe you get a bit more precision, but surely not enough to make stabbing perks exclusive to daggers !?

» Tue May 17, 2011 2:31 pm

I really like the "no buttonmashing and backpaddeling"- approach. Seems like combat will have much more weight behind it. Two guys just standing and spamming strikes against eachother like some crazy cats dosen't feel that epic to be honest. The removal of mysticism also seems like a good choice, I have played so many caster and yet never really focused on mysticism, just picked a few spells that I pretty much use with all casters. The bow seems much more realistic now also.

All in all i'm happy with this update, combat really seems to have been improved on most levels.

» Tue May 17, 2011 10:50 am

The article made it sound like you won't be able to cast spells with two-handed weapons equipped. Not sure about bows, here's hoping.

Also, on page 2 spell casting doesn't make sense. It says they aren't talking about "combining" more than one spell, but then 2 paragraphs down they talk about having a ward spell in one hand and a fire spell in the other. What do they mean about combining then?

Like using both spells at the same time to make something like a super fire and ice ball.

» Tue May 17, 2011 9:04 am

80% of this article was just a rehash of old information. But I still love the direction they're going, especially with the bow.

» Tue May 17, 2011 2:57 pm

Throwing axes for not-hunting = very impractical.

REALLY ? Tell that to my ancestors the Franks, worked very well for them, throwing axes creates fear and confusion on top of being damaging when they hit.

» Tue May 17, 2011 9:13 am

What I don't understand is why stabbing a guy with a dagger should damage him more than stabbing him with, for instance, a shortsword. Maybe you get a bit more precision, but surely not enough to make stabbing perks exclusive to daggers !?

For all we know, there won't even be shortswords

» Tue May 17, 2011 2:15 pm

I'm pretty sure Pete tweeted that custom spells will be in, but I'm not positive. Maybe someone can verify?

When someone asked him if they were spells or spell effects he said, "Yeah, more like effects." So it was pretty vague, unfortunately. But it does give me hope they might still be in. If not though, like I said, I can learn to love the new system, too.

» Tue May 17, 2011 10:47 am

Not sure what to make of the new info at this point...

Particularly the focus on daggers in the bit about stealth. If the moderators will allow me to quote one paragraph-

Doesn't it occur that you should be killing the guy if you're that close and you have any kind of weapon?

The article makes archery sound limited to sniping, too, especially with the block button becoming a shield bash when held down. Can we stop arrows with a shield?

What if you hold down block but don't have a shield equipped?