Just a quick thought. Isn't the game turning a map marker on after accepting a quest much like taking the directions a person would give you, and then turn around and mark it on the map yourself? So toggle-able or not, it isn't immersion breaking. Just thought I'd say something as I have seen lots people annoyed by the existence of map markers.

Game implemented map marker = real life map marking.

literally the only thing that's remained constant throughout the series is "there's a big world and you can kill most of the stuff in it".

Skyrim's got a big world and you can kill most of the stuff in it, to boot. sounds like a TES game to me.

No you're not. You're simply stating I dislike this, this, this and that. I disliked a number of things I've heard so far, but rather than starting a thread which serves no purpose other than to say "this gaem r sux", I've either replied to thread which related to my specific concerns, or in one case, started a thread, once again, about a specific concern, in the vain hope that someone with the same concerns would respond in it, and back up their concerns with intelligent points and history.


I was half-expecting someone to. If only out of spite. lol


Yes, completely with you, and that is why I think the 'wait and see' approach is stupid. People said that about Oblivion, and I felt it was a step back from Morrowind. Not going to 'wait and see' if I like simplifications - my experience has been that they're awful. Don't imagine that changing any time soon.

Well, what did the Crossbows in Morrowind add to the game over bows? Not saying they couldnt add something, but they never have in tes.

In fairness on any decent sized map, the majority of people are going to want some form of fast travel, regardless of design. (sweeping generalizations ftw!)

Whoa... deja vu! I could have sworn I saw another post exactly like this one, on the front page to boot! Small world! :rolleyes:

Inline comments.

Oh, I see what ya did thar... lol

The thing I'm most annoyed is Todd is basically giving the finger to PC users...

XD

If it's any consolation, all the previews I've read have all defaulted to the "PC" platform for the article's location.

And besides, we'll always have the ability to mod. Hold that priveledge high.

I shouldn't HAVE to mod to fix Developer's mistakes...

Not really. The quest markers are far, far more precise than any instructions/directions an NPC can rightfully give you. In Obliivon, they actively updated as the target moved around, always pointed to the right door, let you know if thae target was in the vicinity or not (green arrow = in the same cell, red arrow = through a door). It was like having a real-time GPS tracking system that worked under all conditions.

I don't think if an NPC gives me directions "It's out in this region" I'll know exactly where, especially if it's supposed to be long, forgotten (Pale Pass)

I haven't read anythig about the loack of spears, but it's not abig deal, they were not in Oblivion and it still was the best game ever made.

I actually think that the removal of classes was a smart choice, it now opens up the world in a new way allowing you to do anything and start from 0 at everything, not being bound by the "experience" your character has had before you start playing him/her.

Crossbows is still a wtf for me when I play Morrowind, I don't think they fit the TES lore, even though they have been in previous games, just my opinion though.

Spellmaking was over powered in Oblivion, you could easily trick with weakness and damage, add in a 1 sec paralyze and easily win any foe on any difficluty, leaving warriors and rogues dead and a mage triumphant.

Less spell effects yes, but they have all been re made: Fire damage has atleast three different types, all can be done with the same spell. So there is actually more ways of using magic.

Fallout like perks, no they are not. We had perks in Oblivion too, skill perks that we unlocked when we got better at the skills. Now we get a perk when we level up instead, which gives benefits to different skills, in a way that oblivion did too. Limiting the nuber of perks we can choose to 50 makes us less jack of all trades than in Oblivion, we could have all skills 100 and own all perks in OB, this wil not happen in skyrim.

You cannot judge the graphics out of a few screenshots, they have said they are very pleased with the progress they have made. Don't you remember how oblivions graphics are? Or are you playing oblivion with a super computer with better graphics?

Do show me where they have said there are no attributes, I'd like to know. If attributes are gone however, it will be the only thing so far that will bother me in any way. They could easily add attributes to the system they have now, that they would increase dynamically, not "choose 3 when you level up"-style of the past games.

UI might be a bit confusing, but then again, I find morrowind meny system extremely fail. But they might want to make everything look a bit better, the menus in both morrowind and oblivion didn't look like actual "journals", because there was no animation for turning the page in it. But that wouldn't have been needed either. And this is just a question of opinion, some will love it, some will hate it, but then again, nothing can be loved by everyone.

Fast travel is also a matter of opinion and I'm sure most of the players in the world would like there to be fast travel, it's not like the game would be specifically made just for those who don't want fast travel, it's supposed to feel welcomming to both sunday players and hardcoe gamers, and not all hardcoe gamers want fast travel out of the game either.

Draw your final conclusion after 6 months, this is a way too early stage to judge the biggest game of 2011.

No spears/crossbows is a shame but it sounds like we're getting much improved combat with other weapons.

Classes cannot ever be removed, you can play as any class you want, just won't have an arbitrary title. Your actions shape your class.

No spellmaking is not a sure thing, and also they're making more possibilities in the ways we can use spells directly - an overall more complex and fun magic system.

Birthsigns were horribly imbalanced, and perks will add much more variety in character creation.

Graphics are more than slightly improved IMO, the awful bloom is gone and faces don't look ridiculous.

Attributes haven't been confirmed for certain, but who cares - perks will do their job if they're not in. Another thing that will only really affect the #s on your stat screen, not how you play in game.

But, its not a mistake...I can't mod with my console. Microsoft won't let me, like ever. I get what they give me, end of story. Pc get the ability to change things to how they like them, I don't. If the UI is built for consoles, it will take maybe two weeks before the first mod comes out for PC to get a better interface. Sure, they should change the ui for the pc player when they take the game from xbox to pc. I agree, 100%, And I think they will. Nothings really even been said about the PC UI, at all really. That's what I'd be worried about, why they haven't said anything. I wouldn't be worried about if it was built for an xbox. We all ready know one ui for consoles was built for consoles, as for the pc, we really don't know yet.

Oh believe me, I am NOT excusing Bethesda's screw-ups, I don't even think I'll be buying the game at this point. Seeing as how I lack sufficient talent to implement the features I want, I also can't rely upon mods to "fix" a broken game. But, it does effectively make for free, perpetual DLC. I loved making my own cities, items and races.

how

they're going to sell the most copies of Skyrim on 360. they know this because they're not idiots. this is why every screenshot has been from the 360 version. this is why all the information we've received so far regarding the interface is regarding the console version.

wait until the game is closer to release and there's more out there in the wild before jumping to silly conclusions. once Eurogamer or PC Gamer or Rock Paper Shotgun have an honest one-to-one interview with Todd or Pete or somebody we'll get actual solid info about the PC version.

ok just to add a little to the rant.. try to stay away from all the info , im not one to buy into hype anymore. and id rather not get my hopes up. but seriously no attributes , are you saying that my mage is as strong as my warrior? and that a nord is as smart as an argonian female. makes no sense whatsoever if thats the case.

and whats the deal with no spears? give me one just ONE good reason not to make spears , its a cool weapon and id want them just for the sake that more choice is ALWAYS better , no matter what you say. Spear is one of the most commonly used weapons in this wannabe medieval direction theyve been going since oblivion. i R dissappoint with your lack of creative integrity and boldness mr todd xbox whatever your last name is.

still playing morrowind 8 years later and loving it. will i be playing oblivion in 2014 ? no , will i be playing skyrim in 2019 ? not if you continue with this trend. might as well play mass effect if i want a game that severely limits my choice of character customization.

it would require a whole new set of animations that no other weapon would use, which would be time-consuming and ultimately kind of pointless considering that like Morrowind 90% of people playing the game will be using swords and axes and all the weapons that are actually valid in most combat situations.



evidently not if they weren't in Oblivion.



"that's pretty cool, bro" - todd howard, 2011

Because the UI is oriented for consoles. So why shouldn't they work on doing two seperate UI's?

Then don't buy it. I know I will. And I am extatic in the direction this game is taking. Shame on you

*Ecstatic.

And don't you think that's a touch beligerent? I have concerns about the game, why is it your opinion is more acceptable than mine? Can't we all partake in an intelligent debate, with you stating why you like the changes, and us voicing our concerns over them?

The absence of spears is unfortunate indeed. The most unfortunate aspect is that they would realistically behave significantly differently in combat, and present different utility compared to other melee weapons, adding more depth to the combat system. Now chances are that if they actually had spears, these spears would probably behave as they did in Morrowind, which means they'd be just a different looking weapon to fight the enemy with. I'd have a hard time justifying the addition of spears, in creating the models and animations, if it was going to be was a slight different looking weapon that did not bring with it unique gameplay. So yeah, if it was done well it would be great but it would take a lot of time off other aspects of the game which I might consider more important, and if it was done badly it'd just be a waste of their time.

But yeah, I'd like wielding spears, pikes and javelins, especially from horseback.


In regards to classes... I think they had posed a progressively lower significance in the Elderscrolls since Daggerfall. In Oblivion they were a pointless restriction and an obstacle to your character's progression. As far as I'm concerned, keeping it as it was in Oblivion would be a poor choice, which lead to the options of either scratching the class system entirely or rebuilding it into a new incarnation where significant penalties and bonuses could be imposed on the character. They chose to ditch the system, which brings about its own share of benefits and drawbacks. It's a shame again, but perhaps the time spent on not working with classes will improve another aspect of the product.


Crossbows are cool, I like them. If they are incorporating a damage resistance system with armour thresholds like in Fallout, they would make for the sort of weapon a marksman would use to penetrate armour or thick skin, providing a lower re-fire rate than bows, but greater armour piercing capacities. I think they would have made a worthwhile investment of the team's resources and it's a shame they are not part of the project.


This is actually a move that I support strangely enough. I thought the spell making system was simplistic, disallowing the presence of more interesting spells to be present. Now, if they simply cut the ability to make your own spells but and leave the spells as they were, it'd be bad. I have the feeling they are going with a Bioshock approach though, where each spell is special and provides completely separate utility. Frankly, I'd rather have that than the ability to make my own spells. Given the limitations that must be applied to such a system to ensure balance, the actual function of the spell-making system is diminished. In Oblivion I prefer using spells from Midas Magic, even though I couldn't change what they did, simply because they were far more interesting than the things I could make the vanilla spells do in in-game spellmaker.


I hadn't heard about the absence of Birthsigns but it's saddening. On the bright side, the absence of them means I can finally play characters that don't use the Apprentice birthsign but that's a bitter-sweet feeling when I have nothing to fill the void. Like was said earlier in the thread, I don't think the presence of Perks actually eliminates the Birthsigns place. They should be be able to co-exist side by side, like how Traits and Perks exist side by side in the Fallout universe. If I had to pick between birthsigns and perks I'd probably pick perks, but that still doesn't justify their absence. The amount of work to have birthsigns in the game, given that the lore is established for them, is likely minimal, so it's not really a matter of requiring the manpower to operate elsewhere. They must actually have made a conscious decision to cut them in their entirety. I don't know the reasoning that justifies it.


This is something I really don't care about. They have improved the only things that actually visually bothered me in Oblivion, the character faces and bodies and the bland environments caused by using the automatically generated scenery. The rest I thought looked pretty good as it was. Better graphics usually just means lower frame-rates and worse performance anyway. Over the Oooohs and Aaaaahs of seeing the something the first time, they don't actually increase my enjoyment enough to justify my frustration at sub-par performance.


I don't support this choice, but combined with the absence of classes I can't help but wonder if their reasoning is to cut the aspects of the game that restrict you in how you play your character. Attributes tell you if you can make an effective mage or sword-fighter, much like how your classes restrict you in how you advance in these roles. If you cut these restrictions you have the ability to play your character as you see fit. However I do wonder what the next move is if the ultimate goal is to rid the game of restrictions and limitations. Is the next move cutting Races as well; because races determine how effective you are at certain roles? Nah, I support the absence of Classes but I think cutting attributes alongside it actually takes away from the depth of character development, and also character generation. I'd like to be more than a set of known skills, but also a set of characteristics unique to my character, that influence how that character behaves in different circumstances. I think it improves games' replayability.


To me the UI isn't the most important thing ever. What little I've seen of this current UI however gives me something of a Sci-fi vibe, and thus makes me feel like it doesn't belong in a game like Skyrim given the concept art we've seen of the game. I would have preferred a less flashy UI, perhaps the look of carved stone or wood, like Nordic craftsmanship. Being a utilitarian people, I'd have liked the UI to portray the same vibe. I.e. Functionality over visual attractiveness. A User Interface is after all there to provide information and tools to the player, not to look pretty.


While neither is inherently bad, I do find them to be an excuse for laziness in dialogue design and quest design. I tried to play without using quest markers in Oblivion and Fallout and found that it was bloody impossible. You get the most basic directions from the NPCs that are close to impossible to follow without that magical GPS device. In Morrowind I remember that it was sometimes difficult to follow directions too, and I sometimes got lost but I actually liked that. I'd come across something interesting, explore a dungeon off the beaten track, then backtrack in my journal to find where I took the wrong path. Fast Travel is similarly bad in that it expects people to actually use it, giving you quests to traipse half the world away and nothing ever happens influencing this quest until you reach the destination. In a way it feels as if they are forgetting about the importance of the actual journey in a quest and it's all about the destination itself. To me, this is the true problem conferred by the presence of these systems.


Disappointed I'm not, but disappointment is usually a greater indication of your elevated personal expectations than any inferior quality of the product. Given the state of the industry, and the audience they seek to appeal to, these choices were probably to be expected and doesn't truly surprise me. I do however hope, and expect that they add enough new stuff to justify dropping the old, otherwise I'll probably join you in the disappointed corner.

:rofl: