Indeed. Besides, mods cannot fix everything. Try as they might, mods could do very little to fix the problems with the FO3 UI.

It's true, the majority of us are firm believers that mods are to enhance, not to fix but the most vocal people tend to be those that think they are to "fix" even when there is nothing to fix. Those people also tend to be the ones that only see "removal" and not look at the big picture overall and see what it was replaced with and see there was a gain and not a loss. Unfortunately, that minority usually are those that open the rift between the console and PC community and also end up making confusion about the game and paint it in a negative light.

Well in that case it's a shame that the vocal minority has completely alienated me to your platform's crowd.

Good day.

Again Sliegn think about my thought experiment. Is it better to have a half second load time? Does it add to the games, does it make it more enjoyable? And you feel the UI was good for OB, so you think that losing the hotkeys for map and quests was a good move and made a better UI, improved the experience for the user? You feel that having a map that you can only see 1/3 of at a time made sense? Do you think that being able to see only 7 items or so at a time, as opposed to 3 times that(with Darn, using smaller font) was a well thought out idea?

Bye and thanks for your contribution :tongue:

In actual fact Darnified UI and Enhanced Hotkey mods were amongst the most popular for Oblivion PC users but there were limitations to how much they could improve things. Having bindable keys and a dedicated PC UI for the PC version would help us out a lot.

You did not answer my question, do you think Fallout interface would have been better if all the screen had been used, in other word everything else is the same, you simply can see a lot more items,etc at once.

You could not do what you say regarding the map and quest, there were no hotkeys for them. If you left it on map, but you wanted to see quest you would have to add extra button press, mouse movements to do that.

Again you did not answer my question, do you think taking the hotkey for maps and journal out was a good decision decision, that it made the game better, more fun, more playable,etc.

Again, did you think the load time adds to the game? Is having the extra load time better than OB and MW UI that did not have the half second loadtime?

Like I said, the UI for the PC version of OB was the consoles UI, thus the lack of hotkeys for the map and quests. I didn't have any issue with the UI as it was set to the last screen you were on so if I needed to keep looking at the map, I just opened up the menu again. Same with quests or items. We already know that we have hotkeys for maps, quests, spells and inventory, so that won't be an issue. However I hope they keep the organized tabs because Morrowind's menu was sloppy but since it was made on the PC first, it used space of screen more efficiently. But as I said, they are making a UI just for PC so it's almost certain they will have a UI that fits the resolution and gives us the full look at the map and so on.

So you agree with me then? It was a bad idea, it did not add to the game. You have ignored many of my questions. I can only assume you realize the obvious that no load time is better than a load time, that having hotkeys for the map and journal is very useful and that being able to see more information at once, whether you prefer it in a grid system or a list is better.

I agree with Beth on nearly everything there doing for Skyrim Sliegn but sometimes you just can't keep defending everything, no company is perfect I don't expect them to be. Skyrim will be awesome, Beth is my fav company but there track record on this issue is not as good as it could be. I hope Skyrim UI will be the best yet, but I have concerns and I think there valid.

Well devs say there will be different version of UI for PC users, I hope we also can edit UI as we can do it in Oblivion, so UI will mostly opened for modding not completely hardcoded.

There is only so much you can fix when the default UI and controls lack basic functionality. Sure we can move elements around and make them larger and smaller, but that's about the bulk of what we can do.

No, I didn't ignore anything, I answered to what I thought was the only things worth answering or that I even saw as a question. The premise of your entire thread is based on what they did with OB and FO3 and as I said, those were console port UIs and I specifically said they were making a UI just for the PC, that in itself automatically answers the very premise of the entire thread. I wish people would stop seeing it as "Sleign is just blindly defending Skyrim" instead of just seeing it as reason based on the evidence we have. If I blindly defended Skyrim, then why did I complain about the quick menu pausing the game?

To go in depth of answering questions if I must, I could care less if we somehow got a half a second load time on the menu because it is so miniscule it won't make a noticeable difference and I'm used to having instantaneous loads. Hotkeys were kind've obvious we were going to have them seeing as how the console version has hotkey for maps, spells, inventory and so on with the dpad, it's inherently going to be on the PC plus Todd has already confirmed PC will still have hotkeys. Like I said about seeing more information, UI built for just the PC equates to being able to see more information as it will be reworked to fit high resolutions.

I don't appreciate being told by some people that I'm defending everything as if I'm just making up *bleep* to defend it, it's all from information we have been given, it's right there for you to see, you just have to see it (and for some people, not talking about you, need to be willing to see the information).

You can choose to play on the system in which you can use mods you know.

Just because PC gamers have the ability to fix problems with mods, does not make that a good solution. In this case, this topic is about a PC specific problem... so the console version should never even be mentioned. I can understand you seem to be butt hurt that there are no mods on the console, but thats no reason to take a shot at the PC community in this thread. Either buy a computer, or accept that your playing the game on a system without mods. Its the simple... don't sit there and tell PC gamers to deal with a broken game because we get mods. Thats just idiotic.

Also, not everone on the PC uses mods. Thus the game should be functional as a PC game out of the box... and a horrible, ported interface is NOT what I would call functional.

You still did not answers my qustions. There yes or no. Just say yes or no. The fact that you bring up things we don't know for sure about in SR is instead of a clear yes or no is what confused me. This is both about Skyrim UI and good UI concept in general from past games.

1.Is having a load time better than not having a load time?

2. Is removing Hot keys a good idea?

3. Is being able to see more information on screen at once better?

I am worried about SR UI. But there is no confirmation that there is a one button hotkey for maps,etc on pc one click, not two clicks or one click and a mouse movement(which is what is being described). We heard the same stuff on the Interface for FO3 Pete said he thought they had figure out how to do things like the UI for pc but we just got another console port more or less, so I don't know what to think about what there saying for SR? The info is just not it yet to make a decsion either way your defending what we do not know well enought, I am only bringing up my concerns not passing judgement on SR UI yet. Just things in Beths history we can look at to get an idea were they might go. You can't just assume its all go to work out.

I used DarN UI just for the smaller font, but the only big difference is that the stat screen is in one screen, you don't have to go to a different tab to see your rad. Other than that I barely noticed the difference.

Also I kinda liked how I was using a wrist mounted computer with it's interface or anything, I just didn't needed all that extra space.

So?

Actually I think the F buttons went to a different page in Oblivion, but I might remember it wrong.

No, but I didn't missed/bothered by them either. It's just not as OMFG Horrible as some people say it is.

Thank you for answering. So you did need to use a UI mod because of the isses with the UI(thanks for being honest) something that uses the rest of the screen could have solved. And you do agree with me on my other points as a concept. So if Skyrim UI did everything I was saying you would be fine with it then? And most other pc user would be happy. Looks like everyone wins.

As far as the half second "load" time to get to the menu:

Something that does not add value to the game: Your character pulls his wrist up to his face to look at his pip boy

Something that does add value to the game: The view of the game world zooms out from your location, revealing a fully rendered 3d view of the map. Gives you a much better understanding of your position in the world than just a flat map with an arrow. Also gives you a better grasp of your surroundings than just instantly bringing up the zoomed out 3d map.

I'm completely confused. Your questions were just answered, why do you need a yes or no answer on them. The questions are just irrelevant to Skyrim except number 3 and I already answered that as well, because the PC unique UI will have higher resolution menus, meaning more info can be shown. Also, everything I said we DO know about Skyrim, that's the thing. This is why it looks like I am always defending Skyrim because I'm usually one of the few that remembers the "lesser" features revealed in all the information. I mean look, no one mentioned the fact that we are getting a UI personally tailored for the PC except me, which would have answered the third question. Then we already knew that the console version has hotkeys for maps and what not and Todd already said the PC will still have hotkeys, so that answers question 2. As for load time, I answered that too. It doesn't really matter as long as the load time isn't a second or longer. Why answer yes or no to those questions when only one of them is relevant to ask of Skyrim (the first question) and then I can explain my answer to question one in more depth than "yes or no".

I don't see any reason to worry about Skyrim's UI when we already have been told the major features. Also, there IS confirmation since the directions on the dpad in the console version are automatic hotkeys to the map and so on, the PC will have the ability to hotkey them also.



This. Like I said earlier, as long as there is something interesting that happens during that half second load time, I'm good with it.

I did not NEEDED to use an UI mod, but it was helpful, mainly the smaller, higher resolution icons/font part.

I would be glad if the map would open if I press M, even if not, if it resembles the old system, I wouldn't have any problem with it.

This is a valid point. Taking out hotkeys and give us nothing instead(or something worse) is just bad. Half a half second load time for nothing is bad, for a much better map could be quite reasonable. I used a map mod in OB that did extra stuff, the draw back is it took half a sec or so to load.

I appreciate the valid point you bring up, I had not consider that. Said with the grid system vs a list.

This is what I'm mainly confused about. Where are you getting that they are taking out hotkeys? It not only was confirmed by Todd that hotkeys are still in the game but the console has the four point compass hotkeys and PC will have that to remap as well.

I like put in other way, this is just a yes or no to one question.
Do you agree with this statment:

I would prefer no load times over load times,hotkeys over no hotkeys(or less hotkeys,etc) and more information at once?

2nd. I seem to know the info just as well as you please don't assume I don't(except for story stuff as I ignore that).

Both OB and FO had hotkeys but not for map and journal. A one button hotkey is what I am talking about. That has not been described yet. Yes the wheel thing sounds better than what OB and FO3 granted, but its still two clicks, or a click and a mouse movment(which depending on how its done could be just fine with mean, but we don't know) Just because PC has higher res menus means nothing, and we have heard of imbedded menus that only take up a 1/3 of the screen which reminds me of the 50% of the screen FO3 had.

I know this is blasphemy, but I hope they have an option for the console interface on PC in addition to the dedicated PC UI. Simply because I really like playing with maxed settings in 1080p with my 360 controller. Looks fantastic and blows my Xbox or PS3 out of the water. For the record, I want both as I would use my keyboard and mouse just as oftem.

I'll answer your questions though, and changed them so they're less biased:

1. How does load times affect your UI experience?
Everything has a load time. Even the fastest interfaces have a millisecond load time. The faster the better, but as long as it does it's function then I have no problem with whatever they have.

2. How do you feel about the potential removal of Hot Keys?
Reptition is the key. On PC or console, I've gotten so used to OB's UI that I can get anywhere I need in it within a second. Sounds like Skyrim's console UI has been improved. Since that's the only one i've heard described I'll leave it at that. No sense in commenting on the PC when we know literally nothing about it.

3. How much information on screen do you ecpect to see?
I hope they decided for themselves, but in truth we won't know until we get the game in our hands. Some people found Oblivion's information on screen acceptable, and some found it inadequate. If the user interface allows for a little more information than OB than I will be happy. How it's presented is their perogative.

[quote name='mrbosch' timestamp='1303846959' post='17548062']
I know this is blasphemy, but I hope they have an option for the console interface on PC in addition to the dedicated PC UI. Simply because I really like playing with maxed settings in 1080p with my 360 controller. Looks fantastic and blows my Xbox or PS3 out of the water. For the record, I want both as I would use my keyboard and mouse just as oftem.

I'll answer your questions though, and changed them so they're less biased:

1.How does load times affect your UI experience?
Everything has a load time. Even the fastest interfaces have a millisecond load time. The faster the better, but as long as it does it's function than I have no problem with whatever they have.

2. How do you feel about the potential removal of Hot Keys?
Reptition is the key. On PC or console, I've gotten so used to OB's UI that I can get anywhere I need in it within a second. Sounds like Skyrim's console UI has been improved. Since that's the only one i've heard described I'll leave it at that. No sense in commenting on the PC when we know literally nothing about it.

But you can't do the same with FO3.

3. How much information on screen do you ecpect to see?
I hope they decided for themselves, but in truth we won't know until we get the game in our hands. Some people found Oblivion's information on screen acceptable, and some found it inadequate. If the user interface allows for a little more information than OB than I will be happy. How it's presented is their perogative.

So you do you think have more information is better than less?

My questions are about general concepts, of course there could be a time were a load time is justified(some one brought one up). And part of the point of the question is there rhetorical in nature to an extent. Who would want more load times? Who wants less hotkeys? Who wants less info shown? But they are also questions just to make you think. Just because you don't mind, how hard is it for the dev to add this function to help the many that do care? And if you don't mind, then it won't make your game experience worse for you by this stuff being in there or at least thought about by dev and something good coming of it for the many you feel there had been an issue.

And I agree with you about the console UI.

I won't answer those questions as just yes or no, I've already answered them in a respectable, in-depth manner. Also, the hotkey question is irrelevant to Skyrim, the more information at once is pretty much a given it will have more information at once unless they decide to go crazy and the load times I've already answered as "It depends on how much of a delay".

I'm not sure why you think it's two clicks. You hit a direction, your map pops up. That's one click. If the inventory has the organized tabs that's the best outcome to me. I'm not sure why having to click a tab is a problem, it's much faster to click a tab and look at a specific set of items than have everything on one screen then have to search for the item through the clutter *cough* Morrowind *cough* it's just slower if everything is on one page, it's much quicker to find something if they are organized into tabs. Organized tabs are better in my opinion but that's how I feel about it.

Grid vs list: I think I might be in the minority of PC gamers that prefer the Oblivion list style (with DarnUI of course) over Morrowind's grid? I just don't like any system that makes you hover over items to see their basic stats. I had no problem with it 8 years ago playing Morrowind, but once I had a menu system that shows you the stats for multiple items simultaneously it's hard to go back to the grid. Of course the number of items on the screen at once was ridiculous, and made it necessary to get a UI mod, but I think Beth has realized it was a mistake and will use smaller fonts for the PC version. But @sleign the tabs thing doesn't really apply imo, as Morrowind's inventory did have filter buttons.

Load times: Like I said I think I will really like the map "load time." But the only other one mentioned that sounds like it could be slightly long is for the stat screen, where the camera tilts up toward the sky. This doesn't really bother me because the only times I'll be looking at the stat screen is when I level up or I'm randomly curious about my skills or perks.

Hotkeys: I thought it is confirmed that even the consoles will have dedicated buttons (dpad) to bring up the map, stats, inventory, or magic screens. I see no reason why this wouldn't cross over to PC. As far as equipment hotkeys, I thought they mentioned that the PC will have both a hotkey system as well as the favorites menu system.

As I typed this I thought of something else, somewhat unrelated: has anything been said about the quest screen/journal yet? Sounds like it will be separated from the other four menus. I'm thinking with the 3d book thing, clicking the journal button will have a 3d journal book come up that you can interact with. It would be pretty cool imo, especially if they bring back the Morrowind journal. If we're stuck with a magic compass that knows everything why can't we have a magic journal that remembers everything.