What does being able to join any faction have to do with anything? In a truly reactive world there are limitations from your choices. They have consequences. Not being able to join every faction in one play through would be a reactive world. And have you tried to kill anyone? The list of essential NPCs on the wiki is over 200. You can't kill anyone in this game.

And just to be clear, if everything you do in the game has no consequence and no effect on anything substantial than you are not actually making any real choices.

For some reason the complexity of this game is too difficult for people to grasp.They live in this fantasy world where a game director sits on a throne makes demands and programmers easily pump it out the next day. The imagine someone saying " spell creation..nah. lets NOT add as much as we can. just to be jerks to those hardcoe PC gamers out there"
To them all bugs are obvious and can easily be fixed with a patch. All they need to do is find bug and hit delete.

So tell me why Morrowind fared much better in that aspect? Sure it was not perfect, but it could be improved upon. But that's what happens when you add voice acting, the sacrifices it adds is huge on several aspects. Same with adding the radiant AI which is pretty useless. But what do you expect, nowadays people lack the imagination to play the game without these features. Instead of imagining what could be a normal day in the life of an NPC, we get to witness something awkward and very underwhelming, why put it in in the first place then? Same with dialogue, not only does it means big sacrifices, but you're stuck with it if some characters have [censored] voice acting or if some bits feel awkward specifically because of the voice acting. But then, we're talking that people lack imagination because they're bothered by things that could not be problems if Bethesda didn't put in useless resources-demanding features that could be replaced by imagination? I'd rather see a dynamic world reacting appropriately to my actions, or most of my actions, than see a static world with voice acting or NPCs sitting 4 hours in the tavern only to get up and go sleeping in his house, and that if I actually follow him for hours. I don't care if people are going by their daily lives when I'm across the province, and I don't need them to do awkward stuff or drown me with the same lines all over again. You're some random dude, but everyone sure seem to think they should say some generic thing to you when you walk by.

It's not a question of game making realities, it's a question of priorities and where do you put your resources. No one worked on something like radiant AI, which is hugely complex. So Bethesda come up with this from the ground up, and with everything else they need to do with such a big game, that's not necessary. In a way, Bethesda are chewing on more than they can swallow, and they fail to pick up the most important aspects to work on, to make sure all these aspects are as good as possible. Because when you play a game, you don't want to hear nails on a chalkboard while doing something. Sure technological capabilities, as well as what video games can do factor in, but there's always ways to make everything perfectly playable and not annoying still. When playing Morrowind, rarely did I felt repulsed or bothered by several things. But when playing Skyrim, I feel complete puzzlement when a tavern owner casually tells you about the behavior of her dead barmaid as if she was still working. Or when you save someone from a murderous maniac, only to find her or any of the witnesses act as if nothing happened. Sure video games can ask you to suspend your disbelief and use your imagination on a certain level, but there's a limit I can take it. If you create such a huge world, you need to make it worthwhile. In Oblivion, it feels as if it was an open-world game for the sake of it, the world was empty and boring. It's not particularly the case in Skyrim, but it still feels static.

It's like people who say you have choices in Mass Effect. If you only take good vs evil into account, yes you have choices... I realized there's quite a bit of illusion of grandeur, choices and roleplaying in Skyrim.

That was kinda my implication. They seem to have dedicated the bulk of new team members to side projects. This is an RPG, where are the quest designers and the writers? The main focus on any new entry in the series should first be on expanding the role playing possibilities. This means more quests with greater interactivity, a world with greater reactivity, characters with more depth, etc. Instead the focus always seems to be on gimmicks. In Oblivion, facegen and that tree growth simulator thingy were highlights in any preview. In Skyrim, the detail put into a side of beef and procedural snow. Who cares?

These aren't valuable pieces of the world building process (or rather, they are just flavor). What is valuable is a world that's reactive, characters that are believable with depth, player agency in quests. If the people who live in the world are shallow, if there's no consequence to my choices (or if I'm presented with no choices), then that world is not believable. My ability to snatch butterflies out of the air is fluff. It doesn't matter. It's one of those things you do and think, "Neat!" but it's not an important inclusion.

Justifying the lack of meaningful world building by pointing at piles of graphical flairs and better audio design doesn't cut it.

Which again, comes back to the whole "bigger team, more money" thing. These improvements on the team side of things should result in improvements on the gameplay systems side of things. And I mean in totality, not just improvements in certain systems while others face new problems are retain problems that have existed since Morrowind. The game as a whole should rise up.

That's what choices entail. :shrug: If I choose something and nothing happens then I may as well not have chosen at all. Consequences for your actions doesn't mean less freedom. I choose to level my sword skill, I'm not going to be as good with a bow. That's not a loss in freedom, that's simply the logical consequence of my decision. This is no different when we are discussing quests. Siding with one faction over another might lock me out of any benefits that other faction might have offered. I mean, does the option to side with either the Stormcloaks or the Imperials offer more or less freedom for the player?

On the flipside, not offering the player any choices does limit freedom by imposing decisions on the player. Sure, you can choose whether or not to take a quest, but you can still do that in quests that do offer multiple solutions. By not offering the player any choices within a quest, you are forcing them into one specific course of action. Player agency is key here. I need the option to make decisions if I'm to have the freedom to play the sort of character I wish to play.

^Amen.

Thats why i think balence and difficulty mean very little in a game like this actuly haveing the imagination to rp is what makes it, and for all its faults and glitchs it is by far the best yet for it imo.

Hopefully the dlc's will offer better story/plot choices and endings, now that they've spent all this time on making the world look great.

Hopefully.


with time Brought better graphics, Game mechanics, voiced Dialoge and scripted stuff. but the Reactions and organic world reacting to the CHOICES of the player is still to be realized.

Lol no, not to that extent.

But I also find this largely irrelevant, as being able to fill in the gaps with imagination shouldn't be a necessary compensation for the developers missing things out. If I wanted to use my imagination so much I'd play pen and paper RPGs, which I don't.

From the other thread on this article.

To each their own, personally I can't stand the Witcher where the character and story is fully created in advance and I have little to no input of my own.

I'll take open ended sandbox where I can get creative, you keep nassty chips.

That's odd, I always imagined the woman was actually a daedric prince in disguise, just mucking about because it was bored. I mean, how did you THINK all the prior owners died?

Well. After completing quest for Thalmor agent in Markath i slit his throat, stripped bare, dragged him on stairs, set him in "Jesus on cross" position then pierced his hands with ebony arrows.

I guess I am using TOO MUCH imagination.

TBH how much imagination is really needed to think that tough Nordic culture has desensitized them. How silly would it be to have everyone overreact at the sight of blood?

Imagination is the name of the game.

That's why I like TES. (which is also the name of the game)

someone made a good post which pretty much relates how much imagination is expected. a player imagining a characters backstory and motives and whether they are good or evil, whether they are married etc. that makes sense because everyone is going to have a different story for themselves. however, when it comes to how the game world interacts with the player then its the developers job to make it convincing. the argument that the onus is on the player to imagine everything in a video game is just silly. if people wanted to use nothing but their imagination then they would either play a tabletop version or get some dovahkin and thalmor action figures and play with those in their pajamas.

going by the logic that its the player responsiblity to reconcile every inconsistency in a video game we would never have bad video games. no matter how awful a game is we should just all imagine that its really not that way and in fact its something completely different. apparently its all my fault that i noticed oblivion level scaling was awful. i should have imagined that bandits werent all wearing glass armor after awhile. or maybe i should have imagined that mehrunes dagon was supplying bandits and maurauders with high end gear in order to help thin out the empires military. :rolleyes:

its a sad day when i get more complex npc interactivity from an RTS than an alleged RPG. how is it that if i roll my buggy or tank into enemy territory in any given RTS game that they would recognize me as the enemy and fire on me and yet i can walk into windhelm in imperial officer armor towing along a follower who is also wearing imperial armor and not one stormcloak bothers to recognize it. it makes even less sense when its your first trip there and before any of the main quest is done so you arent even known by anyone at this point.

interactions between the player and the character......that is the players responsibility. interactions between the gameworld and the character........that is the developers responsiblitiy.

^ This.
Back when me and my friends used to actually have the time to play DnD this is how I DM'd. I created the world my friends, by their actions, created the story. I did not tell them where to go. They decided. The only limit is what you can imagine. Same goes for Skyrim. For example: Whem I'm playing my Argonian Necro/Vampire I role-play that my wife is a thrall allowing me to be a part of society and move freely because what upstanding Nord woman would marry such a monster.

I feel that the only way to truly enjoy games, with their limitations due to hardware restrictions et al, is to use your imagination.

Don't consume fluoride if you want to retain a strong imagination; it's been linked to deplete the natural levels of DMT in the brain, which is a chemical linked to dreaming and imagination. A certain smoke-able plant that is illegal can actually increase these levels.

While we're on the subject of D&D, I am actually DM'ing a session tonight. The way I DM is I make a setting, come up with a base plot line, and just let the characters decide what they are gonna do. I don't force anything on them, and I rarely have anything that breaks their control over the game. The only time things are out of my player's control are specific events that they stumble upon to make it clear what they just started (side-quest type things I have scattered around).

Our first session they didn't even go anywhere their employer told them to. They went in the opposite direction and just kept getting random encounters to get loot. XD

I do this all the time.
For this particular case with the old Agnis I just instantly assumed that she is mentally insane due to the fact all these men come and go and possibly use her for more than cleaning. Of course she doesn't say anything more than "Oh I need to go clean". Imagine if it were you there in that situation; very possible to lose your mind. In fact, up until I saw this escapist article that's what I thought Bethesda intended her to be; insane woman obsessed with cleaning.

Anyway, I try to roleplay all the time basically. Here is another good example.
The old orc you meet who wants an honorable death. I gave him a death by my sword alone, took him to the small pond after I killed him, (He spawned by river/pond in a forest), put flowers on his chest and his axe by his side. That was probably my most favourite moment in the game. Where I gave him honor he deserved + proper actions post death, thus also making an emotional connection through my character to myself.

I go above and beyond the call of duty when it comes to using my imagination in games like this. My latest character, an Argonian named Jeff, is a serial killer. His MO is to leave his victims in lifelike poses. Usually he can satisfy his cravings on random bandit filled caves, but occasionally, a guard will look at him the wrong way...and then jeff follows him for hours waiting until he's alone. Then it's a quick knife thrust to the back, and dragging his corpse to the middle of town to place on a bench. I think the best was when the mother in the battle-born house sent some hired goons after jeff. He killed her a sshe slept, and then carefully placed her body next to her sleeping son.

Who woke up later that morning, got up out of bed, and went about his business as if he hadn't just found his mother's blood-soaked corpse staring at him. The bodies in the middle of town? Noone cares. Sometimes Jeff has been caught. He pays a fine and it all goes away. And the family of those I killed see me int he street and say "You've been a good friend to me." Jeff will be seeing you tonight, "friend."

Imagination is all well and good, but it breaks down when you have to apply it to things outside of your character and his actions. It's my job to provide motivations and personality for Jeff, but it was the developers job to do it for the rest of the world. And in a lot of cases, they just didn't.

I do use imagination, to an extent, filling in story/characterization gaps. (it can't fill in gameplay gaps though)