[lacy lake]

Yay, bards! Let me sign you a motivational song to speed you on your way (whips out the lute)

Make, make, make, make the crazy character!

Why do i get the feeling you read the OOTS comic's?

[Franko AlVarado]

Is everyone from the Timeline in here...?

[Susan]

Is everyone from the Timeline in here...?

I think just PFA and myself are the only IBT members.

Also, do you guys think a tutor/adviser would be useful in Valton?

[Misty lt]

I think just PFA and myself are the only IBT members.

Also, do you guys think a tutor/adviser would be useful in Valton?

They said they could use an adviser for the jarl.

[Svenja Hedrich]

Oh, seems the free internet near my house is slightly more reliable than I guessed. Fingers crossed there will be no Vinny disappearance at all

Anyway! Re: Asap's "uber" rant, while I hear what you are saying, I think you a missing the central reason uber characters are seen as poor writing form in many circles. A bad writer will make even the lowliest warrior uber by misunderstanding Rping etiquette, or not being savvy enough to how lucky a character can be, and so on. The real reason uber characters are frowned upon is they themselves are an example of poor writing (or lead to it). Precisely the things that interest us about characters are their flaws, their shortcomings, were they fall in the crazy universe that is TES. The kind of character that could (but of course, never will) solve almost any problem with some insane display of magic is instantly a less fascinating, or involving character.

Of course, things aren't quite that simple, because this is after all a fantasy roleplaying forum, and at the same time what brings us here is roleplaying fantastical characters who live amazing lives, or somehow have capacities more than our own. So there is a constant battle, between a interesting character, and an exciting one. In some Rps, like OPAP (and I assume IBT), these larger than life power-fulfilment characters flourish and lead to facinating stories, because we have whole kingdoms to play with (or for whatever other reasons). This is all a matter of taste, and I don't want to proscribe anything to anyone, but honestly, having RPed for 10 years now, my favourite thing about Valton as a setting is the lack of power-fantasy characters and the low-fantasy atmosphere that has grown here. While very powerful characters can be used well, in my opinion their very absence makes us all RP better -it puts the focus on other things. This is a different scale RP, and I like it for that.

But, yeah, I don't want to proscribe my own tastes on everyone else, even as GM. I have to admit I'd rather not have any of these insanely powerful characters in Valton, and I'm in agreement with Gorbad that there should be a general limit on uber-ness. Some features that are interesting here are, for example, if an average character has a problem with magic, they got to the Court-Mage, if they are hungry, they go to the inn or to a merchant to buy food, if they have trouble with bandits they go to the local guard or a mercenary (or, even the lone sell-sword or two, if it is a real issue). These kind of dynamics I want to keep in place, but at the same time, if you have a character you really want to RP, I'm sure they can find a place here. But let's try and work with the town, and have someone who supports the theme of Valton, not counteracts it.

Err, finally, Valton really already does have a tutor/master for all things magical, my character Fiona Barrow-Heart. Right now she is my sole character, and tbh I'd kind of like her to stay a viable part of this RP for now, so my imput isn't all admin. Sorry .

[Cat]

Eh, thats a good point dere, Vincent. However, I disagree that they are less involving or fascinating. It all really depends on how they are played, and what their role is

[Trish]

I don't see the problem with having powerful characters in the RP. It depends more on the person that will play the character. Some know how to roleplay powerful characters without making an ass of themself, others don't.

[Shelby Huffman]

Daroska, I'd prefer if you asked before killing one of my character's animals. A kick like that was definitely enough to kill the chicken, and I find your post to be too controlling. It is as if Roymund shot Tippen and decides that the arrow struck his leg in such a manner that Tippen's leg is now permanently crippled.

Can we include a rule where before anything belonging to someone else's character gets killed by someone, the one doing the killing must have the owner's permission to do so.

[Harinder Ghag]

I'm abit on the fence about this whole powerful characters thing, Whilst i dont see the problem in general with powerful characters i do prefer how Valton is at the moment. More basic characters with simple needs/problems. Thats half the reason i chose to join this RP instead of any other of the current lineups. I only really have problems with multipul characters doing the same thing, hence why i first had a problem with aSaP's Ranger but after a discussion we've sorted that without any real changes to the characters.

On the RP; I like how in the last scene Roymunds threatening to shoot a guy, meanwhile everyone else are coming across more aggresive then he is. I turn up suspecting the worse and loadup my "Hero" moment, only to find out i'm completely wrong, get told to piss off, and end up standing around like a daft sod infront of the guy i was threatening to shoot!

[Tanika O'Connell]

I think Mhund hit the nail on the head. A lot of us are here because Valton is different from normal Rps in it's mundanity. Also I'd like to bring up the difference, for example, between PFA's slightly OTT classic hero type character and, for example, Rithe. Leandra is interesting because although she has this extraordinary element - her dwemer arm, her skills/choice of profession, she is essentially a flawed, normal human being, with all other sorts of fragilities and inexperience. Whereas a character who has already been there and done that, and had fantastic adventures elsewhere, is instantly less interesting if not from a mechanical point of view (a good Rper won't ruin plots with him), but from a dramatic point of view. Quite simply, Obi Wan had to die in A New Hope for Luke's trials in Empire Strikes back to have their resonance: a character who could solve most problems (but won't) can be a pain in the [censored] for a GM trying to help interesting stories develop. The answer to this problem is generally to up the scale, increase the stake
s and keep things on a knife edge and exciting. And here we have our problem - the small scale of Valton is part of its charm. The daedra interference is kind of comical in how little a chance we might well stand.

Another example, the Stormcloak/Imperial intevention. When I was last RPing here, the Jarl was facing the problem of who to side with in the Civil war, his dilemma being either side could completely overwhelm his city, Ulfric could raze Valton in an afternoon, the Imperial's could revoke the charter just as quick. Jarl Radwulf's lack of options is what made it an interesting scenario (for me, anyway!). So, yeah, less is more. Its a philosophy you either buy or don't, but for whatever reason Valton has turned into an experiment using that as the core principle. So there you go.

[marie breen]

Daroska, I'd prefer if you asked before killing one of my character's animals. A kick like that was definitely enough to kill the chicken, and I find your post to be too controlling. It is as if Roymund shot Tippen and decides that the arrow struck his leg in such a manner that Tippen's leg is now permanently crippled.

Can we include a rule where before anything belonging to someone else's character gets killed by someone, the one doing the killing must have the owner's permission to do so.

You could have the chicken killed or you could not. Personally, I'd get Jacqueline to go find the chicken in the field and mend it back to health.
Technically I didn't wish the chicken to be killed. It was only meant for some light humour. A reference to the Fable games famous "chicken kicking."

Hell it could even be a feral rooster that was attracted to the farm by the females. Now I know that's not an uncommon thing in the real world, so it's a possibility.

[.X chantelle .x Smith]

I guess so, but a kick with enough force to send an 8 pound animal airbound is rather extreme. Chickens are not durable animals, and getting kicked hard is sure to crack their ribs or snap their neck or legs.

If it was a wild rooster then it would be nice if you add that fact to your post.

[kristy dunn]

WOW. This just turned into a fascinating discussion about role-playing philosophy

From my very inexperienced perspective, I just think that it requires skill and humility to play an overpowered character. We're all in this together and we all want to have fun, after all. Having someone playing an overpowered character without the skill and humility, can make this whole experience much less fun for the player with the weaker character. I agree with asap on this, it's not the character, it's the player, and of course I recognize the skill of some so, as a result, I'd feel tempted to allow exceptions but there's the problem of allowing someone to have the OP character and not allowing another because he doesn't have the skill. Hardly a polite thing to explain to someone. Having one rule applying to everyone seems like the right choice.

From the storytelling point of view, I think Vincent said it all. It's like he turned into a giant pigeon and started [censored]ting pearls of wisdom all over this thread.

I never considered some of those issues. Very good points.

[Brian LeHury]

I guess so, but a kick with enough force to send an 8 pound animal airbound is rather extreme. Chickens are not durable animals, and getting kicked hard is sure to crack their ribs or snap their neck or legs.

If it was a wild rooster then it would be nice if you add that fact to your post.

That'd spoil the fun of it. Why don't you have Jacqueline find it and then identify it as not one of the farm's chickens?
I mean it's not like Jormaw can tell the difference between a rooster, a chicken and a feral rooster. He might have some
experience with wild animals but domesticated animals might as well all be the same thing. Hehe. So how about that?

[Nick Tyler]

I understand where you're coming from 100% Vincent, and I agree with you entirely. The lack of the cliche "Awesome adventure" was what brought me here as well. I love how mundane everything is and I think Roland is going to become one of my favorite characters so far. I was by no means implying that Valton should be made of a ton of powerful characters. That would ruin the atmosphere of the RP. I was stating my opinion on powerful characters in general and across the entire forum. My reason for wanting to bring Rithe in was solely for character interaction. In fact his power would have absolutely nothing to do with the RP. The only reason it's included in his CS is because that is who he is and has always been. I envisioned him being the strange wizened aging mer who has an air of mystery about him. I was hoping that him being of such an age and, at least to the citizen's of Valton, of unknown past that he would spark some more character interaction. I kinda of see it in a way that the majority of the town would be somewhat normal people while there's the one or two old intriguing oddballs from another age that everyone is curious about. Remnants of a time long gone ya know?

However none of it really matters not as I cant seem to find a good job for him in Valton.

I have a quick question. Are side plots going to be included in the RP? Even though this isn't an adventure RP I was thinking maybe it would be cool to group together some of the more adventurous characters and have them go scouting through Valton Hold and through the Rift. I have a feeling after a while milking cows, shooting deer, and forging random things in every other post will become rather boring. The trek through the hold to assess the situation and state of the Jarl's lands would offer a reprieve from the mundane tasks for a while and spice things up a bit.

[Kat Stewart]

I'm abit on the fence about this whole powerful characters thing, Whilst i dont see the problem in general with powerful characters i do prefer how Valton is at the moment. More basic characters with simple needs/problems. Thats half the reason i chose to join this RP instead of any other of the current lineups. I only really have problems with multipul characters doing the same thing, hence why i first had a problem with aSaP's Ranger but after a discussion we've sorted that without any real changes to the characters.

On the RP; I like how in the last scene Roymunds threatening to shoot a guy, meanwhile everyone else are coming across more aggresive then he is. I turn up suspecting the worse and loadup my "Hero" moment, only to find out i'm completely wrong, get told to piss off, and end up standing around like a daft sod infront of the guy i was threatening to shoot!

Well, at least your character might get a drink out of it.

As for powerful characters, I was worried about Tippen being overpowered without even considering magic. I mean, he can shoot you from afar, probably best you with a sword, and beat the hell out of you with his fists. As for magic, you have to be careful, as it really does lend to the imagination. I had a magical character mimic Itachi from Naruto back when I was into that sort of thing. I did it well, too, because I could write well enough. That said, creating a character is putting limitations to one's self. That's difficult, but it makes you a better writer, which is one reason I RP. It makes me think, it makes me react to a situation, and I can't do anything my character can't do.

If you RP a powerful character, they need to be of a high rank, and need to fit within the confines of the RP. This RP doesn't lend to powerful characters which hurts as a writer because you must limit yourself more. I think the steward should be a decent fighter, but clever as well. They should not only protect the Jarl, but be able to lead in his absence. this could lead to some interesting moments if the Jarl was "incapacitated", and everything fell on the steward.

On Character control and damaging property. Just be careful. Adding in that it was a wild rooster would be metagaming in a sense. How does his character know if it belonged to the farm or not. That said, it was a weak defense, and you should notify your fellow RP'ers before seriously damaging their property. This gives them time to prepare. In my personal experience, it takes more time to think out a surprised response to a situation, than a calm one. Damaging property or the character seriously puts the player on the spot, and can lead to a less than desirable experience for all.

That said, all of this is one man's opinion. If you disagree, then feel free to tell me to shut up. These are my beliefs as to how to RP and it's what I will stick to. Should you disagree, I respect that. Also, if Mhud had crippled me without notifying me, I'd ask him to edit it and contact me beforehand. I'm not calling anyone out, I just think that we should clear up character control and damaging property as it is an extension of some characters.

Also, I hope Vincent doesn't mind that I've jumped in without his specific approval. Just anxious to get into Valton is all.

[David Chambers]

For it isn't so much an issue of skill and humility (though you are completely right Smig, this is often an issue). Having different rules for different people is also unfortunate, but for me the sticker here is another, separate issue, the one I touched upon. Namely, that even with a very skilled Rper (and believe me, Asap is good ), the standard RP main character with an epic past and mad skillz changes the very dynamic of the story just by being there. I am 100% sure Asap could make it work, but nevertheless, the type of story we can write changes once we have a certain amount of these epic adventurer style characters in the RP. And I kinda like Valton the way it is. All this said, I'm sure Rithe would be a fun character to Rp with elsewhere.

Sorry for going off on a rant on high-minded RPing philosophy. It's been awhile, and I'm wont to indulge myself at times like this .

Off to bed now though. One thing, uh, tomorrow I'll bring Fiona back into the RP, and take up controlling the Jarl again, could anyone give me a run-down of what has happened since everyone gathered together in Helas' Folly inn to discuss what to do about the mine? I have missed everything since then, and simply don'y have enough time right now to read it all =/. It'd be totally super amazing awesome if anyone with enough sparetime/boredom on their hands could fill me in .

[Kristina Campbell]

Why is there no longer an inn keeper?

[BEl J]

That'd spoil the fun of it. Why don't you have Jacqueline find it and then identify it as not one of the farm's chickens?
I mean it's not like Jormaw can tell the difference between a rooster, a chicken and a feral rooster. He might have some
experience with wild animals but domesticated animals might as well all be the same thing. Hehe. So how about that?

Yeah, that could work. Her two chickens are 'trained' to stay around either her cart or their cage, and both are behind the house, outside the barn.

[Alisia Lisha]

That'd spoil the fun of it. Why don't you have Jacqueline find it and then identify it as not one of the farm's chickens?
I mean it's not like Jormaw can tell the difference between a rooster, a chicken and a feral rooster. He might have some
experience with wild animals but domesticated animals might as well all be the same thing. Hehe. So how about that?

You could still edit that in because you're narrating it, the narrator can know more than the character does. Like I said "Still unaware of what he was holding, he...".

I don't think that's absolutely necessary though, as long as Jack finds her two chicken in the farm, then it wasn't hers. Whoever it was, whatever it was, doesn't matter. Could be a feral chicken, could be his imagination, could be a powerful wizard that shape shifted into a chicken...

Unless there's an interesting storyline to follow there but I doubt it

[Chris Guerin]

Urk, posted at the same time as two other people.

@Asap, though I see what you mean about Rithe, and agree that role would be cool, I think you've also hit the nail on the head with the problem here. Basically, with Valton so far, most of the people who choose Adventery style characters have gotten bored and left, whereas us with the more mundane/town based characters have been happily Rping the entire time. It works for a scene or two, but eventually you want something to do with your character. And at that point, when things get adventurey, is when the balance becomes an issue (either mechanically or thematically).

Secondly, Re: Subplots, totally. In fact the first time I'm gonna do once I get back Rping in this thing (fingers crossed tomorrow) is help start up a new plot to take the fighty characters out of the town. Don't worry, there is lots planned. Gorbad seems to have done an outstanding job in keeping things going by himself, but with the two us here at once things should be cept at the right level of excitement for everyone .

@Sleeper

The Rper went AWOL. If you want, you can take over the inn. Just say Jal got sick . Really, we need a new Inn Keeper, or even just a bartender, as soon as possible.

[Reanan-Marie Olsen]

I have a quick question. Are side plots going to be included in the RP? Even though this isn't an adventure RP I was thinking maybe it would be cool to group together some of the more adventurous characters and have them go scouting through Valton Hold and through the Rift. I have a feeling after a while milking cows, shooting deer, and forging random things in every other post will become rather boring. The trek through the hold to assess the situation and state of the Jarl's lands would offer a reprieve from the mundane tasks for a while and spice things up a bit.

Absolutely. A mine was cleared since I joined and right now, there's an issue with bandits that should develop soon.

[Bedford White]

For it isn't so much an issue of skill and humility (though you are completely right Smig, this is often an issue). Having different rules for different people is also unfortunate, but for me the sticker here is another, separate issue, the one I touched upon. Namely, that even with a very skilled Rper (and believe me, Asap is good ), the standard RP main character with an epic past and mad skillz changes the very dynamic of the story just by being there. I am 100% sure Asap could make it work, but nevertheless, the type of story we can write changes once we have a certain amount of these epic adventurer style characters in the RP. And I kinda like Valton the way it is. All this said, I'm sure Rithe would be a fun character to Rp with elsewhere.

Sorry for going off on a rant on high-minded RPing philosophy. It's been awhile, and I'm wont to indulge myself at times like this .

Off to bed now though. One thing, uh, tomorrow I'll bring Fiona back into the RP, and take up controlling the Jarl again, could anyone give me a run-down of what has happened since everyone gathered together in Helas' Folly inn to discuss what to do about the mine? I have missed everything since then, and simply don'y have enough time right now to read it all =/. It'd be totally super amazing awesome if anyone with enough sparetime/boredom on their hands could fill me in .

Ahhh stop it. You kick my tail when it comes to writing high fantasy.

I think we should spark up a debate in the RP general discussion on RP philosophy, I'm in the mood to force my opinion on others debate about topics. Haha

Anyways what do you think about the side plot for surveying/assessing the Jarl's lands? It could open up more opportunities for the characters through discovering new resources or locations. Ninja'd. lol

[Khamaji Taylor]

That is a cool idea you struck through there Asap, actually. I like the idea of the survey. Honestly, there is going to be stuff supporting this coming real soon (like, stuff they could find/reasons to start looking). But if you want to make an expedition, that is a cool idea. The plot here is super free-form and sandbox. There is a main story arc, but it is being followed at everyone's pace. Actually the structure is (totally by accident) kinda similar to the games themselves, I just noticed. I also noticed this is awesome.

[Steven Hardman]

Urk, posted at the same time as two other people.

@Asap, though I see what you mean about Rithe, and agree that role would be cool, I think you've also hit the nail on the head with the problem here. Basically, with Valton so far, most of the people who choose Adventery style characters have gotten bored and left, whereas us with the more mundane/town based characters have been happily Rping the entire time. It works for a scene or two, but eventually you want something to do with your character. And at that point, when things get adventurey, is when the balance becomes an issue (either mechanically or thematically).

Secondly, Re: Subplots, totally. In fact the first time I'm gonna do once I get back Rping in this thing (fingers crossed tomorrow) is help start up a new plot to take the fighty characters out of the town. Don't worry, there is lots planned. Gorbad seems to have done an outstanding job in keeping things going by himself, but with the two us here at once things should be cept at the right level of excitement for everyone .

@Sleeper

The Rper went AWOL. If you want, you can take over the inn. Just say Jal got sick . Really, we need a new Inn Keeper, or even just a bartender, as soon as possible.

Alright sounds good man.

I'm going out with some friends for a bit so I wont be back until about 11:00pm EST (2 hours). I'll catch up with everything then.