[Jennifer Rose]

Hmmm. I wonder how Leandra would feel if Jormaw lied and said to her that they did in-fact sleep together..

Yep always been the rule, also it's generally not a good idea to quote or comment on moderator actions, it just brings them back. If you find that you can't manage to keep non-OOC pvssyr in PM's then there are a few solutions, some of the IBT guys used IM or Facebook I think or you can always use a secondary forum.

I don't like moderator actions much. Always been a rebel to admin dictatorships. As I believe the viewer should set the rules, not the creator.
But this doesn't get heeded at all in today's society, either you get a moderator telling you to email their boss or an admin saying you aren't their boss.
My ideal internet would have moderation forums where rules, actions and debates can be discussed in an openly free, civilised, democratic affair.

I'm always online to post a new thread, it's not about that. It's just better to keep things focused and organised. Off-topic comments are fine, as long as you actually talk about something RP related at the same time. I'm not going to name names, but I think we all know who the two pvssyrs were in the last OOC thread.

I don't think off-topic comments actually derail threads as much as people like to make out. Only a person of absolute persistence does that.
You may get an off-topic post or two, swinging back and forth, probably to amount of a single page worth of the thread. But does it matter so?
Rules are made to be broken. And yet, people don't mind. Actually, it produces a more friendly atmosphere where things are less serious, poignant.

I'd debate this for a long time, as it is one of my favourite topics of interest. However, I fear a robocop admin will soon come to shut up my opinion, sadly.

[Anthony Rand]

Sorry Daroska, but you are in the wrong here. For instance, it is much harder to keep up with these threads if there are pages of nonsense to go through. It is nice to chat and make jokes but you are making it harder for the rest of us. For that reason, and that we must bow to our Moderator Overlords, the discussion is kinda over. Sorry.

[ONLY ME!!!!]

Sorry Daroska, but you are in the wrong here. For instance, it is much harder to keep up with these threads if there are pages of nonsense to go through. It is nice to chat and make jokes but you are making it harder for the rest of us. For that reason, and that we must bow to our Moderator Overlords, the discussion is kinda over. Sorry.

That's the kind of thinking which I loathe. Freedom of speech is my first and last wish in all derogatory attitudes.
I don't think I'm wrong at all, since there isn't pages of nonsense to go through. There might be a slight post here and there but it's mostly elusive.
People who take this to the extreme are the ones who make it harder for the rest of us. We're just keeping things lively and friendly, not overbearing.

AyumiFan, Smig, Mhund, even Gorbad- all the sort of people as well as myself made it comfortable for me to join this RP in the first place.
Without that 'group family' atmosphere, you kinda feel like you're jumping out of the frying pan and into the fire, as it were.
My point is: remove the 'getting to know' (kinda off-topic) tiny part of the thread and you go from Oblivion Dark Brotherhood to Soviet Union style.

This is the one thing I won't back down on. No matter the threat, arguments or silencing people give me, my opinion is still valid for one's well being.

But at any rate: Vincent, while you are here.. what is your opinion on the Jarl giving free land to Urgoc because of his carts being destroyed in Valton's
perimeter? I thought it'd be fair way to get the orc's farm started in Valton Hold's forests without going through the procedure of an otherwise coin exchange.

[victoria gillis]

I feel ya Daroska. I can relate to that but I don't think this is so black and white. I'd have a lot to say about that and we could all go back and forth about that because it's a very interesting discussion but ultimately, I don't think its wise to disagree with a mod by doing the exact thing he told us not to do. Moderators are actually pretty lenient about that rule, they always were, I'm sure some chit chat is perfectly fine so all we need to do is tone it down a little.

I think you took the mod's intervention as something bigger than what I think it was.

[jaideep singh]

That's the kind of thinking which I loathe. Freedom of speech is my first and last wish in all derogatory attitudes.
I don't think I'm wrong at all, since there isn't pages of nonsense to go through. There might be a slight post here and there but it's mostly elusive.
People who take this to the extreme are the ones who make it harder for the rest of us. We're just keeping things lively and friendly, not overbearing.

AyumiFan, Smig, Mhund, even Gorbad- all the sort of people as well as myself made it comfortable for me to join this RP in the first place.
Without that 'group family' atmosphere, you kinda feel like you're jumping out of the frying pan and into the fire, as it were.
My point is: remove the 'getting to know' (kinda off-topic) tiny part of the thread and you go from Oblivion Dark Brotherhood to Soviet Union style.

This is the one thing I won't back down on. No matter the threat, arguments or silencing people give me, my opinion is still valid for one's well being.

But at any rate: Vincent, while you are here.. what is your opinion on the Jarl giving free land to Urgoc because of his carts being destroyed in Valton's
perimeter? I thought it'd be fair way to get the orc's farm started in Valton Hold's forests without going through the procedure of an otherwise coin exchange.

Off-Topic: See this is how you should post the off-topic stuff. It's still got something to do with the RP. I think we could even do it like I did in this post, write Off-Topic: In front of the text which is off topic.

On-Topic: It's unclear where exactly Dr. Strangelove had his character and crew land.. But I guess we must make a Valton docks somewhere. Potential work for the masons?

[TASTY TRACY]

I was skeptical about the character at first, but man... I love me some PFA

[Louise Dennis]

PMs? really? that's a long and complicated feature which is sloppy compared to the instanteous, if a little off-topic comments one can post on threads.
If you're getting annoyed by how many times you have to post the thread- just get someone else to do it. I'm sure Smig or AyumiFan would be happy to.

You should be so lucky to be RP'ing in a time where OOC threads are allowed. Imagine trying to organize an RP with as many complications as this in the RP thread or via PM? These are a privilege given to this section so I'd rather a few spammers (yes off topic nonsense in the last few OOC threads was spam, deal with it) didn't get these life-saving OOC thread banned.

Looks like I've got a lot to read up on... Did anyone directly contact my characters in any way, just as a time saver so I can respond to you right away?

[FLYBOYLEAK]

Off-topic; I'm on the fence here. While i like the jokes and associated banter, we're here to discuss RP-based things in the end. Providing some of our post is RP-related, i dont see the problem with unrelated parts. I also agree that keeping everyone on friendly terms can only benefit the RP. I'd be less inclined to join/stick around with an RP where i dont talk with the boy/girl/argonian behind the screen, even if i am just making bad puns about ponies..

On-topic: Smig, How big would you say your barn is? and are the animals kept somewhat enclosed, or do they roam the full barnhouse as one open space? I'm hoping it's somewhat pen-style otherwise Roymunds probably stood on half a dozen chicken eggs and sat on Henry.

[Milad Hajipour]

I was skeptical about the character at first, but man... I love me some PFA

Never doubt the value of having Full Metal Van Helsing in your town.

Blade, I don't believe anyone has. Everyone's just waking up and clustering up in the farm and by the Jarl's hall as far as I can see right now.

[Britta Gronkowski]

To the question of where I landed the crew, they landed south of Valton, long before the bridge leading to the mine. They're just a little way down, about 300yrds south from Valton.

[Ebony Lawson]

Blade, I don't believe anyone has. Everyone's just waking up and clustering up in the farm and by the Jarl's hall as far as I can see right now.

Thank you friend. Hopefully I can read everything I've missed and actually become a part of this RP by this evening (IRL)

[Dina Boudreau]

To the question of where I landed the crew, they landed south of Valton, long before the bridge leading to the mine. They're just a little way down, about 300yrds south from Valton.

How big is the boat? Small enough I guess to turn around in the river?

[michael danso]

To the question of where I landed the crew, they landed south of Valton, long before the bridge leading to the mine. They're just a little way down, about 300yrds south from Valton.

Hmm, that's pretty near the farm of Valton. Unless you landed on the other side of Valton?

[Amy Smith]

How big is the boat? Small enough I guess to turn around in the river?

It's just a little smaller than the masted boat, docked in Riften (and looks the same too.) It's not so wide or lengthy, but still able to carry a reasonable amount of cargo (it's that size also, so it can be sea worthy for greater distances). As for turning around in the river, there is no such option of literally turning the boat around, it's still too big. It has a rudder, but on each end of the boat, the rudder can be placed making the bow and stern different depending on which direction they're going on the river.

Hmm, that's pretty near the farm of Valton. Unless you landed on the other side of Valton?

I wasn't actually sure the distance between Valton and the farm. I knew there was a bit of a distance between them, but I was hoping to sort of land in between the town and farm? Still out of the way of both, but not too near or too far from either.

[Solina971]

Does anyone around here have any good links for beekeeping? I'm trying to structure a farming role for these ruffbucks and need to know a bit about beekeeping.

You should be so lucky to be RP'ing in a time where OOC threads are allowed. Imagine trying to organize an RP with as many complications as this in the RP thread or via PM? These are a privilege given to this section so I'd rather a few spammers (yes off topic nonsense in the last few OOC threads was spam, deal with it) didn't get these life-saving OOC thread banned.

Looks like I've got a lot to read up on... Did anyone directly contact my characters in any way, just as a time saver so I can respond to you right away?

It's easy to do it an RP thread. Just type at the end of the RP post 'OOC: [insert rambling here]' or for only OOC posts, just note it at the top as an 'OOC post.'
PMs are rather one sided affair and doesn't give the chance for others to give opinion or influence upon the side. In a way, it's rather too direct for my liking.

Off-topic nonsense as you so like deign it, is not spam. This is actual http://f00.inventorspot.com/images/1559606_340_1116081430036-spam.jpg. An atmosphere to welcome- not be of complete bias or be of overly critical behaviour,
is what you would deem as 'spam'. However without it, I'd probably leave this RP for good. I mean most roleplay threads are so direct, straight to the point, unfriendly.
But when I looked at the continuity of these OOC threads, I can see that people here are free, honest, fun and great to be around. It's what makes this RP enjoyable.

I mean it's like if you went to an icecream parlour every saturday and you were given the same old vanilla sundae crap that you now find so dull.. boring.. atypical.
But then one day this new guy shows up to give you a free banana icecream cone, with sprinkles, a flake as well as chocolate buttons all over the damnable thing.
It's nice to have a change. Especially a good change that you enjoy. People here obviously enjoy these conversations we go off to on short little rainbow off-topic'ness.

The people who don't, well.. just say so and we'll tone it down a bit. No need to get the moderator army in, doing things behind people's backs to get an opinion enforced,
as well as across. I'm all fair play for brokering a deal- however, when restrictions harm the overall nature of the thing we got going here, that's what makes me angry.
So would people just let each other have a little freedom of speech. We don't want to be turning the new unique poison dart frog of Valton into an ugly old toad, now do we?

[Laura Wilson]

It's possible that I won't respond until tomorrow and I apologize for that.

also, sorry Daroska, I don't like the off-topicness so please tone it down. Nah, I'm cool with it but I do understand the mods' point of view. If there is to much off topicness in a thread than it will be closed to fast and will only clutter up the forum. but if you post on-topic and off-topic at the same time then who cares?

[Shiarra Curtis]

I wasn't actually sure the distance between Valton and the farm. I knew there was a bit of a distance between them, but I was hoping to sort of land in between the town and farm? Still out of the way of both, but not too near or too far from either.

That's much clearer then. In the middle of the two. However, I actually think there's a bridge there (in-game). In RP, it's not there. If we ever to put a valton docks into the mod, we'll make it south from the bridge. Can't have a boat going through a bridge, now can we?

[Danny Blight]

That's much clearer then. In the middle of the two. However, I actually think there's a bridge there (in-game). In RP, it's not there. If we ever to put a valton docks into the mod, we'll make it south from the bridge. Can't have a boat going through a bridge, now can we?

Well, the mast is collapsable, making bridges not such a difficult obstacle for the boat/crew. And the boat's hull is low enough that going under wouldn't be a problem unless there was a tall amount of cargo, but the keel is able to go in very shallow water like a longboat, so all they'd have to do is have part of the crew offload enough cargo that the boat could be sailed under and then reload the cargo once they've passed under the bridge.

This is all something I thought about before making the whole river boat idea, among other obstacles like water falls for example, and seems logical enough since there are plenty of bridges spanning rivers in Skyrim that would need to be conquered somehow.

[David Chambers]

That's much clearer then. In the middle of the two. However, I actually think there's a bridge there (in-game). In RP, it's not there. If we ever to put a valton docks into the mod, we'll make it south from the bridge. Can't have a boat going through a bridge, now can we?

Another thing I'd like to add is that I've already established that there are rapids down the river near Valton farm, where Jormaw likes to particularly fish a crop of upstream salmon.
So if anyone has any plans to ride up it in a Black Pearl esque boat, you should think otherwise. Unless you want your boat to end up as a master piece of Jacqueline engineering.

[Nicholas]

Another thing I'd like to add is that I've already established that there are rapids down the river near Valton farm, where Jormaw likes to particularly fish a crop of upstream salmon.
So if anyone has any plans to ride up it in a Black Pearl esque boat, you should think otherwise. Unless you want your boat to end up as a master piece of Jacqueline engineering.

Rapids could easily be conquered as well. Obviously not going directly up them, but like the Vikings really did, by rolling the boat up onto shore via cut down logs, and rolling it past the obstacle that way.

[lacy lake]

Rapids could easily be conquered as well. Obviously not going directly up them, but like the Vikings really did, by rolling the boat up onto shore via cut down logs, and rolling it past the obstacle that way.

For practical purposes, I don't think a dock should be at the top of a rapir if it could be at the bottom of it (same goes for a bridge, why bother placing it in a way that you must always pull down the mast when going to the docks, when you have the possitibilty to put it on the other side, meaning the bridge is never in the way)

[Yvonne]

Another thing I'd like to add is that I've already established that there are rapids down the river near Valton farm, where Jormaw likes to particularly fish a crop of upstream salmon.
So if anyone has any plans to ride up it in a Black Pearl esque boat, you should think otherwise. Unless you want your boat to end up as a master piece of Jacqueline engineering.

We'll have to assume the rapids are part of a tributary river. It seems pretty clear that the boats in Riften serve -some- purpose, and that can only to go between Riften and Ivarstead, because after that it is a very, very steep waterfall.

[Verity Hurding]

Rapids could easily be conquered as well. Obviously not going directly up them, but like the Vikings really did, by rolling the boat up onto shore via cut down logs, and rolling it past the obstacle that way.

Well considering the permanency of the set up, a winch system could possibly be used to pull the boat up the rapids. Depending on the stresses the water would place on the boat.

[Killah Bee]

Daroska, the matter isn't up for debate. Rohugh said to cut the crap, so that's what we're going to do. This is Bethesda's forum, and they have their own rules. It's our privilege to be able to post and communicate on the forum as a whole, not our right. It's comparable to this being Todd Howard's house and us being his guests. I doubt you would walk into his house, sit in his recliner, and tell him what you're going to do and not do. It's rude and disrespectful. The forum has rules and the moderators enforce them, it's common courtesy to respect what they have to say and follow it. If you don't want to follow their rules then you don't have to stick around. I suggest not bringing up the matter again before Rohugh finds his way back in here. He's a good moderator and a nice guy, but he doesn't take crap. When he says to do something, it's best to do it and not argue.

I agree that the off-topic crap needs to stop. I come home every afternoon and have to read through at least 3 pages of posts before I'm caught up. It doesn't help when half of it is nonsense that doesn't pertain to the RP.

That being said, I'm more than willing to set up a Valton OOC Skype group, or even a TeamSpeak group were we can chat and not have to worry about cluttering the thread. That should solve the Off topic problem while maintaining the friendly atmosphere.

[Adam Kriner]

For practical purposes, I don't think a dock should be at the top of a rapir if it could be at the bottom of it (same goes for a bridge, why bother placing it in a way that you must always pull down the mast when going to the docks, when you have the possitibilty to put it on the other side, meaning the bridge is never in the way)

I don't think there's a real need for a dock in the first place since the boat could just be partially shored up on land (like it is now,) and loaded.

Sometimes it's more practical (and shortens the trip if it calls for time,) to collapse the mast, and just go on through, than to always have to unload part (or all) of the cargo, cut down some trees for rolling logs and bypass the bridge that way.

Well considering the permanency of the set up, a winch system could possibly be used to pull the boat up the rapids. Depending on the stresses the water would place on the boat.

Which is why I'd rather simply bypass rapids, water falls, etc. by rolling the boat onto shore and going that way. You have to take into consideration, the possible amount of cargo that will be on board, and it might have to be unloaded, so they might as well just cut some trees down or whatever, and roll it without much trouble or possibility of over stressing the boat's hull, and causing damage.