Nothing, except for everything that Bethesda has already established.




Sure, why not? But what does that have to do with anything?



And I find the way it's being adjusted now irritating, counter-intuitive, and unfun.




If you think that my argument is anything even close to that, then you haven't taken the time to read more than half of my posts on the subject.

What? Where does it say in the game lore that vampires are... well, anything?


Fair enough. I do not. I like them just the way they are, because it makes sense to me and seems balanced enough. I don't see any need to reward the player for killing people, especially when most of the vampire "characters" (not mob bandit vampires) actually are quite reluctant to feed.


Nope. I will freely admit that I do not usually read 6 pages of posts before I write something. I read the first and last page, usually.

These two statements from you pretty much comprise the crux of this thread. Your whole point is that your opinion on what vampirism should be differs from what Bethesda has made it to be, and you know enough to point out there's lore to be read on it that you know enough of why vampirism is so in the TES, to some degree.

Actually this IS how TES vampires are, except they are supposed to burn in sunlight, however that was not a 'fun' game mechanic so now they get penalties for being in the sun like -50 health stamina and magicka or something like that. They have their various advantages and disadvantages get to higher extremes as they do not feed.

The other part of it is that the vampire becomes feral as the curse becomes stronger. So the vampire that feeds often is supposed to blend into society seamlessly, while the vampire that does not feed starts to look crazier and its powers reflect that. Its curse is supposed to make it more vulnerable in sunlight. However originally they are supposed to take dam over time while in sunlight. The penalized attributes are supposed to reflect that I guess.

At least that is my understanding. I have not even met a full fledged friggin vampire yet...level 45 too. Where the hell they at?

The lore in TES 1-4 don't cover all the lore of 5, especially when 5 is set 200 years after 4. Your opinion is that Bethesda's take on vampires is wrong because vampires in other fiction aren't like that. Except Bethesda's take isn't wrong because it differs from our Earth lore, it isn't wrong at all. Skyrim and Oblivion both show vampires that gain more power the less the feed, it's reality in Nirn. I'm sorry Bethesda doesn't cater to your opinion.


I guess enemies are pretty upset when that happens as I'm an Atronach.


Because obviously that isn't how it works.

That's all fine and dandy, but TES vampires go against almost every notion of pop culture "vampires" that I have. I mean, of course Bethesda can make their vampires like that, I just think it is kind of lame and they shouldn't.

The crux of the matter SHOULD be, is it fun or not? And the way it is right now, while it affords increased power to some extent, does not allow for increased fun.

While it might be my opinion, there was a tremendously positive response to mods such as Kyoshi's Vampirism Mod in Oblivion. I, personally, just cannot play as a vanilla vampire since using that mod. Why? Because it was THAT MUCH BETTER than the vanilla system.

I cannot say what you like. But in MY OPINION, the current vampirism system is beyond terrible.

There are a lot of books on Vampire lore in the Elder Scrolls series, and a lot of in game quests that cover the subject.




No, it isn't. Don't blame me because you're too lazy to read my posts.




Yes, it is, with the Cyrodiilic vampires being the one and only exception due to their deal with Clavicus Vile. Vampires in Skyrim do not make sense according to the very lore that Bethesda has laid down.

Friend, you need to cite something. Just name some books or something, just so we can even at least look up what you are talking about on http://www.uesp.net/ or the http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=http://forums.bethsoft.com/index.php?/topic/1310295-vampires-seembackwards/s&source=web&cd=2&ved=0CCYQjBAwAQ&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.imperial-library.info%2Fcontent%2Felder-scrolls-series&ei=lp3jTvraJ6OL2AXTuIDhBA&usg=AFQjCNHD6CFTpM8sa2plOYE_8HVzcfgyoA.

Your stance is very specific. You are saying that there is lore in the game that backs you up. If you can't point to any, then I'm saying no there isn't.

I'm not him, but I don't honestly care about lore as long as it...well, makes sense, i guess. See, when i think of drinking blood, I think of health absorb spells; they increase your power immediately, and then wear off after a few seconds. Drinking someone's blood is harder than that, so it should provide a small bonus for longer. That's just how I see it.

What bothers me about the current system with debuffs rather than damage over time while in the sunlight is that it means there's no real reason to not go out in the daylight. In oblivion, if you went out at daytime you would die rather quickly, meaning you had no OPTION but to either play at night or to drink potions. I used a mod that let you go out for an hour or so after having drunk blood, so that would work too; but you're always in a hurry, rushing to get out of the sun in case your protection wore off. It made you feel like a vampire.

In Skyrim, rather than a baseball bat to the head, its like being smacked with a ruler on the back of the wrist. It stings a little bit, but not enough to keep you from actually doing it...and therefore, you end up not feeling like a vampire at all. You just feel like a dude.

This is coming from the guy who doesn't even read a thread before posting in it? Look it up for yourself. You have the address of the site that documents all the vampire books and quests in the Elder Scrolls series. Read them. I'm not doing your work for you.

Except that you are the one claiming that it's out there. You are the one trying to prove a point. I'm not trying to prove anything. I'm happy with the way things are. You want to claim that things should be different and that you have evidence for it? You need to show your evidence. Just like every other person trying to prove a point... ever.

Not my job to do your job.

People have already cited some of the sources in this thread.

ofc DUH that's how http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-2hRmjuizZCs/TspIhLeGJpI/AAAAAAAAAh0/6p8h_eKaaO4/s1600/Edward_sparkling-1.jpg are supposed to be silly

I like it the way it is. Being a just-fed vampire makes you more powerful than no vampirism, but lack of feeding makes you stronger. Think of it like this: Blood sates the vampirism, and lessens its effects. Think of it like tylenol for a headache. If you don't take any "tylenol", the headache runs its course and for vampirism, you become a full blown vampire.

So it can't be a curse, too?

Seriously. Too many people watching 'twilight' commenting on how things work in TES.

In MW, OB, and Skyrim, vampires are all a little different from each other. Jeez.

Oh. K.

Well I don't really care enough to go look for it. They work fine to me, and if there's some tes lore out there that says differently... I still don't care. After all, i'm pretty sure TES wrote whatever lore is out there, so if anyone can re-write it they can.

Good for you. Congratulations on destroying what little credibility you had.

I think we should remember that I was never trying to prove anything?
Also, that some mention of lore burried somewhere in seven pages of a thread that I don't really care about isn't very much of an effort on your part, who was trying to do the convincing.

You might've even linked to the post if it really mattered to you.




lol
Whatever man.

"Etiquette" might have included a link to whatever lore you were talking about, if it exists. Asking me to find it myself, when I'm not the one trying to convince anyone out there that it exists, is hardly polite.

Cool story, bro.

Being a Vampire that's punished for drinking blood is pretty weird, aye.

It's not a punishment.

Tommson:I wouldn't say it's being punished. Both ends of the vampire spectrum are mixed bags. It's a hassle being a master vampire and trying to socialize.

I'm always put off since I lose all the powers and buffs, and then I simply think I might as well just be cured. But yeah there's a benefit to drinking I guess.

Starving yourself doesn't make you or anything else stronger. You have to embrace your nature or manipulate your body in order to gain strength. That's how it works for everything. Vampires, even in TES, shouldn't be much different.

A normal human who eats good and works out is going to be stronger than another who doesn't. Think U.S. Army commando versus imprisoned Holocaust victim. If terms of animals, lack of food makes them desperate and vicious, yes, but it also makes them weak. They're more likely to attack, and in a vicious manner, because they've got nothing to lose and everything to gain. That's all.

Vampires rely on blood. Now I guess it all depends on what exactly they gain by feeding (their source of life versus life-essence that helps to reveal their true form). I've yet to see anything in the lore that states it's the latter, and the former is the most common scenario so I'm going with that.

I think the system we have was born out of simplicity, hand holding and balance. The same applies to werewolves. It's pretty sad, but most gamers wouldn't like a system where you're forced to feed in order to be strong or you randomly turn into a werewolf and are forced to suffer the consequences.