Well since the only fuel needed to make the Hulk stronger is anger and it also leads to... yeah. My point was when it comes to the magical and supernatural bets can sometimes be considered off when it come to IRL rules like "There is no physiology which could logically become stronger WITHOUT fuel. Fuel is necessary for action in any organism."

Since I don't think vampires are meant to be looked at as physiologically logical in an real sense (at least not in a lot of their fiction) since they are supernatural creatures, with supernatural fuels (often with a blood as a base component - although underworld vampires, for example, never appear to have any real connection to blood beyond just being fussy eaters).



Perhaps they interbred somehow and now we just have this hybrid (can blend in, has some ice powers)? Of there was another type of vampire that has dominated. Although since you can run into Volkihar Clan vampires (in name at least) and they can't do it... maybe it was just a case of lore exaggeration (happened all the time IRL - where people believed X could do all these things based on partial truths, Chinese whispers and just outright fabrication).



Indeed.



Their own lore.

Well no, that isn't entirely true. I am sure they draw inspirations from existing IRL lore and fiction, they just don't take it whole from any particular source (or take lots of different bits) - so just because Dracula/Underworld/Twilight/nWOD/whatever does it a certain way doesn't mean TES will or has to.

The vampires in each game to date have been slightly different from the ones that come before. Unfortunately since Morrowind their hasn't been a lot of meat on the bones of the vampiric part of the game.

Not unfortunately Oblivion and Skyrim doesn't make it impossible to still play the game outside of the vampire clans and be a vampire. Personally I think, from IRL vampire lore and fiction (and the idea of a vampire) the logical position is they are wolves in sheep's clothing. They can blend in until they sink the fangs in or something causes the mask to slip. Consummate human predators whose prey is the most dangerous of all - man.

TES however set them in opposition to that - if you are a vampire you aren't a wolf in sheep's clothing, you are appear to be a monster (even if physically you aren't that bad looking) and everyone knows it and hates you to death for it. Thus earlier on they had to come up with a reason a vampire can appear mortal enough to still be able to interact with society. So in Oblivion we got lore that the vampires one could become were the result of a deal made with a higher power - they drank blood so they could go out in day light and appear normal enough to be part of society.

Skyrim has vampires that appear similar (can go out in day, can be social as long as blood is consumed) but no explanation for them which annoys some people) as it puts them at odds with lore that described a vampire clan in Skyrim that was again monstrous.

Personally I think the "TES vampires are monstrous outcasts" is fine but needs mechanical work. In Morrowind for example it lacked mechanics for you, a sentient creature, to be able to figure out a way to disguise your condition - I know I tried with various outfits, but apparently even if you are dressed in a way that makes it impossible to tell your race/gender/age people can still automatically know you are a vampire - it was unfortunate. There were some terrific mods though that improved it however.



Well considering even with this name there a people on forums saying "I am a vampire I don't know how I became one and now everyone is trying to kill me HELP! vampires svck and my game is wrecked because of this!" It seems that way.

I was curious as to whether that change of name is because this is a separate version of the disease or if it is just known as a different thing in Skyrim (which would be fair, IRL even closely situated cultures could have different names for maladies they both encounter).



Yes, it doesn't seem that far fetched to me and that for the most part is my thinking.



Agreed.

it is 200 years after oblivion. It is very possible that the cyrodil clan invaded skyrim when the war started and took over

I definitely don't remember Todd stating anything of the sort. Do you have a link?

It was the only thing mentioned about Vampires really. It was a later release of some interview. Don't have a link, because I don't really acre that much, but I know he said it, since mass people were pissed when he did. I'm sure there are some old threads that can be searched for where this is actually linked though.

I've seen the announcement; he never said they were the Cyrodiilic clan of vampires. He just said that there were different stages of vampirism to advance through, and that as you progressed, sunlight would affect you more. Anything beyond that is simply reactionary misinformation.

He said specifically that it was the Oblivion strain I believe. Or "It works like it did in Oblivion" which would mean the same strain, even though there are some slight variations. Although its clear that these are not Volkihar Vamps in Sky. Nor or they any other type of strain seen in previous games, except, arguably, Oblivion. Id say its either the Ob strain, with some game play variations, or a sub strain, mutated form from the Cyrodiilic strain.

Wizard did it, got it.

If you're referring to the announcement made in http://www.g4tv.com/thefeed/blog/post/716230/skyrim-vampires-confirmed-drink-blood-avoid-sunlight-and-fingers-crossed-bite-dragons/ then that is demonstrably false. If you're speaking of some other announcement, I'm afraid you're going to have to provide me with some sort of source, because neither Elder Scrolls wiki references it or makes a reference to Skyrim's vampires being the same as Oblivion's.




Again, unless this has come from Bethesda themselves, saying that Skyrim's vampirism is the same strain as Oblivion's is an inference on the part of fans.



Actually, this is not clear at all. If you get infected with Sanguinare Vampiris by a Volkihar vampire, it has no effect on the way your vampirism behaves. Therefor there is nothing to distinguish what strain of Vampirism you have, whatsoever.



If it is the Oblivion strain, then the mechanics are wrong. Stage 1 Cyrodiilic Order vamps are able to walk in the day during stage 1 unhindered, which is not the case in Skyrim.

Its the Cyrodiil strain. Its the only strain that goes in reverse, like in Skyrim. Deduction FTW.

You're making an inference. I can just as easily infer that Bethesda simply took a liking to the mechanics in Oblivion and decided to reuse them in Skyrim without taking lore into consideration.

Neither one of us can be proven right, but I believe the inconsistencies I've pointed out support my inference more than yours.

Its the only strain that works like that. Until Beth comes out with a new strain, or clarifies, its either Cyrodiilic strain, or a sub type. Regardless of the lore implications on gameplay or not. Hell, gameplay was the reason they chose to make it like that in the first place in Ob, not the lore surrounding the "Order". Regardless, I'm talking about the lore implications, not 'from a design point'. Oh, and while that may seem like a contradiction, I'm talking about two variables of its implication, lore wise.

That's exactly why they want to eradicate every other vampire clan out. "Cyrodiil became our Stronghold in the Third Era." was a quote from their book. Makes me believe that they never originated from Cyrodiil or they simply where fighting a war there. Since they "Ousted all other competitors" meant they obviously killed other vampires. Think how Janus Hassildor sends you out to kill barbaric vampires in Bloodcrust cavern.


Very possible. I would love to see a DLC regarding them and the Thalmor, both manipulative forces vying for power. One hidden and the other obviously out there.


They must of evolved. Or not.

Which is why this particular thing is getting under my skin. When the book, "Immortal Blood" was written, clearly the Cyrodiilic vampire went over the different aspects on what made the vampires of the provinces unique, when asked about the Cyrodiilic Clan, he speficially says "They prefer to feed on victims while they are asleep, unaware." and "They are indistinguishable from living persons when well fed."

Then Manifesto Cyrodiil Vampyrum came out:

"To patron Clavicus Vile, beacon oer our affairs, we owe our successes and social stature. Our bond with Vile makes us unique among our kind, for his guidance steels our savage craving with reason and savvy. For him we live amidst mankind, and twist them to our will from offices of power."

Thanks Bethesda...for messing with our minds.

I'm not usually much of a modder despite playing on PC (usually just some graphical, performance, and bug fix kind of stuff) but once someone makes a good vampirism overhaul I'm installing that.

Which is why Ive thought they screwed the pooch on Vamps since Oblivion. Even with their description of "blending in with society", that didnt mean that they necessarily had to go from weak to strong when not feeding, opposed to how it was in previous games. All in all this kind of falls into the whole "Beth not always concerning themselves with their own lore". And the fact that even the devs said that us fans take it more seriously than even they do. So there will obviously be some contradictions, and maybe even some future retcon.

I really like your idea here, some modder should make something like this.

You know what? I think that Bethesda just likes to screw with our heads.

See my last post. I think its just that they don't care all that much compared to some of us nerds. If they feel like gameplay will trump lore, or they just don't go out looking for precedent, every time they make new lore, they simply disregard it.

A future retcon would be horrible. Pretty soon all vampires are going to look human. Ever played Morrowind? One person says you will know what a vampire looks like and they are undeniably monstrous and that he's never heard of a vampire blending among people. Also there was a "Imperial culture regards blood vampires as destructive monsters to be hunted and destroyed. However, romantic notions of noble, virtuous vampires persist in Imperial traditions, and vampires are thought to pass unrecognized in the Mages Guild and the Imperial aristocracy." SInce Morrowind, they must of had plans to use vampires blending in and whatnot.

...I am Morrowind.

Anyway, I just felt like the Cyrodiil strain could have made feeding 'blend you into society', as well as making you stronger. I mean, there's very little incentive to even feed in Ob, and Sky, unless your overly pressed on mingling with NPCs.

I know. They're almost as bad as George Lucas when it comes to preserving their own lore and following their own rules. I can understand retcons and the like, but could you at least let us know when you're doing it so that I don't have to keep trying to puzzle out what the facts are, Beth?

I DON'T KNOW WHAT'S REAL!!

*curls into fetal position*

It's really bland in this game...I got bored of it in 9 in-game days and went to get the a cure. The framework to create an epic vampire mod is there though.

The fact that I can go out into the sun at 100% is beyond stupid. I don't even feel like a damn Nirn Vampire.

Well, it makes sense for just the Cyrodiilic clan. Here you have a secret society of vampires who's own clan name was lost in history, meaning they were probably old or just too plain secretive. One, or many, made a pact with Clavicus Vile. And when one makes a pact with Clavicus Vile, they regret it later or there are some little details he did not go over or some drawbacks. In their case, they were given the ability to blend in undetected, becoming nobles and politicians and the general richy rich undead of the bunch. They were able to use that to their advantage, probably using people to wipe out the barbaric vampires while they themselves looked human. But the downside to all this? They were weaker when they fed. If they wanted additional powers and strength, they had to undergo four days of starvation, plus risk being killed and called out by the mortal population.

Gameplay wise, it was interest in my opinion. It just lacked proper pro vampire-related quests. The only one was Janus Hassildor's quest to wipe out the vampires. It would make more sense if you were one in the game. But since Skyrim had a more political feel than Oblivion did, it would've been great if we saw some of these vampires run around in the Empire, plotting to strike against the Thalmor using their own manipulative prowess.

its just part of the vampire lore, if they want to be more powerful they need to starve themselves. if they want to blend in with society they need to feed. that simple.

I was not a fan. Gave me no incentive to feed in Ob.