Is Vault 111 built like a submarine?

Post » Fri Nov 27, 2015 8:39 am

Thank you, I will have to check that out :)

As you correctly stated, the internal pressure of a military sub would be 'normalised' (at 1 atm) to allow it to surface quickly without any adverse physiologic effects on the crew. The whole point being that the air-pressure has to be very precisely controlled, and would need to remain effective against a whole spectrum of external forces. This could be anything from relatively low pressure near the surface, to the crushing forces found as we approach depths of around 800ft.

Now imagine if you could effectively take this principle and turn it 'inside-out'. That is how I think vault 111 has been designed.

User avatar
Christine
 
Posts: 3442
Joined: Thu Dec 14, 2006 12:52 am

Post » Fri Nov 27, 2015 7:46 am

Yes, the Vault is kept at a higher pressure than the outside. This could be a overpressure system to keep contaminants out of the Vault, to aid in the cryo process as others have speculated, or possibly to simulate spaceflight conditions. I really can't wait until we get to dig through terminals and find out what's going on...this is going to be such fun. :)

User avatar
no_excuse
 
Posts: 3380
Joined: Sun Jul 16, 2006 3:56 am

Post » Fri Nov 27, 2015 8:56 am

I actually have some fairly solid ideas as to how the cryo-tech could work within this setup. And I know what you mean - November can't come round fast enough! Will post the cryo/vault info with some other news about the possible timeline used in the game :smile:

User avatar
Cheville Thompson
 
Posts: 3404
Joined: Sun Mar 25, 2007 2:33 pm

Post » Fri Nov 27, 2015 12:13 pm

Just realised that when our protagonist goes into the vault, he will literally be a sub-marine :woot:

User avatar
Tracy Byworth
 
Posts: 3403
Joined: Sun Jul 02, 2006 10:09 pm

Post » Fri Nov 27, 2015 9:28 am

Spaceflight conditions, once IN space, cabin pressure is significantly LESS than 1atm, so the structure doesn't have to be quite so robust to contain it, leaks aren't nearly as catastrophic, etc.

User avatar
Sudah mati ini Keparat
 
Posts: 3605
Joined: Mon Jul 23, 2007 6:14 pm

Post » Fri Nov 27, 2015 2:03 pm

I can see the logic in this line of thought, I think it might be a case of being of primary use for one side (i.e the Cryo works better or only under pressure) and give them a beneficial side effect if you will of keeping almost everything out of the vault. Wonder if that means we are going to have to endure a decompression chamber? After all 200 years in a high pressure air environment is way off my dive tables....

User avatar
Nadia Nad
 
Posts: 3391
Joined: Thu Aug 31, 2006 3:17 pm

Post » Fri Nov 27, 2015 12:50 pm

Interesting point about the decompression. This could tie in with our guy being a little 'out of breath' when he emerges (once it is safe for him to do so).

For the record, I have just added some more info to the OP, also shown below. It is an update on the possible 'submarine'/cryogenics connection.

  • The vault is built around the concept of a submarine, and is designed to maintain extremely high pressure levels
  • There are 4 separate zones: the lift-shaft, the vault door area, the access-level, and then the vault itself
  • Each zone is maintained at progressively higher pressure levels, similar to how pressure increases with ocean depth
  • This progression would allow the integrity of the vault to be maintained, with the lowest pressure near surface level
  • The scientist we see died in zone 2 - the door area. This is where we find the Pip-Boy on our way out of the vault
  • The cryogenic pods are at base level, where the pressure would be similar to that of being on the sea-bed
  • The extreme pressure levels would stop blood from crystallizing as temperatures rapidly drop well below zero
  • Under these conditions, all cell activity would stop, effectively halting the ageing process
  • Over an extended time-frame, the slightest imperfection in any given pod would result in a breach of the outer shell
  • If this occurred, whoever was in the pod at the time would be killed instantly as their body is crushed
  • Any pods that are correctly pressurised would be capable of supporting stasis almost indefinitely
  • The only pods that remain intact for the duration are those of our protagonist, and of his family
  • Our protagonist is brought out of stasis after a system failure causes the vault to return to surface conditions
User avatar
Kellymarie Heppell
 
Posts: 3456
Joined: Mon Jul 24, 2006 4:37 am

Post » Sat Nov 28, 2015 12:00 am

I've just had another thought to do with the design of the vault.

Remember in FO3 when we go back to vault 101 during "trouble on the homefront"? The schematic behind the previously locked picture frame is now made available to us, depending of course on our stats. In vault 111, we know that at least one scientist didn't make it, due to the skeleton next to the vault door controls in the gameplay footage, and there is a fair chance that he was the only one. We also know that this was one of the last vaults to be built. Given the possible 'submarine' based design as I have suggested, what if there was not one but two ways out of the vault. The main one, as well as an escape route for the scientists in case the lift-shaft were to become blocked or damaged. This is how I would picture it:

We leave the vault after completing the tutorial, but somewhere on the lowest level is a securely locked hatch. Some time later, when we've levelled up a bit, we return to the vault, and kill a group of raiders that have since moved in. We then unlock the hatch, and it leads down to a hidden area containing a number of cool items, as well as a submersible. We enter the submersible, and via a large submerged tunnel we end up in the lake north-east of the vault as seen in http://i.imgur.com/tFek3MP.jpg image. The submersible could then be air-lifted out of the lake by vertibird, which would open up a whole possible new area of underwater exploration. Incidentally, the real world lake is actually known as 'Fresh Pond', and is located fairly close to a research facility as seen http://www.freshpond.org, who seem to specialize in evolution and genetics!

To back up this theory, I have posted two new links to the concept art in http://www.gamesas.com/topic/1524192-more-clues-in-the-concept-art thread, showing what would appear to be a small submersible, and also what looks like a giant squid...

EDIT: the hatch leading below the vault could even explain how the Institute gained access in the first place in order to remove our spouse and child.

User avatar
Damned_Queen
 
Posts: 3425
Joined: Fri Apr 20, 2007 5:18 pm

Post » Fri Nov 27, 2015 12:26 pm

You also need the vault (and all vaults) to have positive pressure in order to keep air from the outside from entering the vault through minuscule holes in the walls/etc.

Pressurization is almost certainly part of every vault. I really think the OP is stretching it with his assumptions/theories.

Also, the interior of a submarine is similar to a very cramped surface ship - there is very little inside of one to indicate that it's pressurized. The hatches between sections of a submarine look identical to the ones on surface ships.

(also, the hatch looks nothing like a submarine hatch)

User avatar
Stacy Hope
 
Posts: 3391
Joined: Thu Jun 22, 2006 6:23 am

Post » Fri Nov 27, 2015 11:46 pm

If we look at the design of previous vaults, they are all relatively similar. With vault 111 however, we see a drastic shift not just aesthetically, but in ways that also seem to be functional. For example, the warnings on the outer door, as well as the enormous purge valve, actually suggest not just positive pressure, but very high levels of positive pressure. This would also tie in with whatever cryogenic technology is being used inside the vault. Note that there is a direct relationship between extreme low temperatures and extreme high pressure (which explains why the sea bed is not just a huge block of ice).

Also note that I have suggested further on in the thread that vault 111 would likely be built using the concept of a submarine as a basis, not that it would be built to be exactly like one. The key difference would be the 'normal' air pressure on the outside, rather than the crushing water pressure we find beneath very deep water. The whole idea would be to keep pressure in, not to keep it out. And the progressive nature of increasing pressure levels once the cryo is fully active would also make sense, because you have the lowest pressure in the lift-shaft, which is right next to surface level, so that the whole thing doesn't end up exploding outwards.

Interestingly, http://www.uncleodiescollectibles.com/img_lib/01%20Captain%20Nemo%20Submarine%20Hatch%2001%209-6-4.jpg showing a prop from a 'Captain Nemo submarine' as featured in a 70's TV show, looks surprisingly similar to the 'red valve' we see above the vault in post-war shots from the trailer and also the E3 showcase. If my memory serves me correctly, didn't Captain Nemo also feature a submersible and a giant squid...

User avatar
Yonah
 
Posts: 3462
Joined: Thu Aug 02, 2007 4:42 am

Post » Fri Nov 27, 2015 1:43 pm

Far less than 1.1 bar (0.1 over pressure) will keep anything out. even if far from airtight far less pressure is needed if you also try to make it airtight. You need more than 2 bar for any chance of bend, this equal 10 meter deep.

Now as the vault has to be airtight and also survive over-pressure from the blast is will be build a lot like an submarine. it also make sense to have air thigh partitions inside in cause of breach or fire.

This generate the sub feeling.

User avatar
LittleMiss
 
Posts: 3412
Joined: Wed Nov 29, 2006 6:22 am

Post » Fri Nov 27, 2015 3:47 pm

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D5esyZPt5Jo&feature=youtu.be&t=4m21s from concept art @ 4:27 top middle (don't think it's a flying machine, but could be wrong) and yes it would make sense to have a vault sealed like a sub with oxygen scrubbers and all the other necessities to maintain life without outside interaction. Only when/if the vault is opened might that integrity be broken if a double seal airlock was not in place or functioning properly. Enjoy the theories and it will be interesting to see the real deal in November and see just how close you've come!

User avatar
Nicole Mark
 
Posts: 3384
Joined: Wed Apr 25, 2007 7:33 pm

Post » Fri Nov 27, 2015 8:24 am

This looks like it could end up being be a very big sub, and I'm guessing it might be something we find whilst exploring underwater.

User avatar
Carlitos Avila
 
Posts: 3438
Joined: Fri Sep 21, 2007 3:05 pm

Post » Fri Nov 27, 2015 10:00 am

I agree with the 1.1 bar as just a measure of isolation from the outside contamination, but if they are using pressure to inhibit ice crystal formation in cryogenics, then the pressures that even depress the freezing point appear to be in the 100s bar/Kbar range, and thats enough to outright kill, and deposit some Nitrogen on your tissue.... Maybe they used helium.... sorry just thinking of the voice acting :P in a high pressure helium environment. (lowest point of water/ i.e. the liquid component of blood and tissue, is 251.165K @ 209.9 MPa then it goes directly into Ice II III IV or IX depending on temperature, though I think that you would shoot for ice III since its the most dense form of ice, its denser then liquid water at 1 bar, However ice II has a slice all the way to 0K ) Just had to break out a little look on ice to find the phase diagram for ice its on wiki)

User avatar
Paula Ramos
 
Posts: 3384
Joined: Sun Jul 16, 2006 5:43 am

Post » Fri Nov 27, 2015 10:38 pm

Vault 111 Will be built like a gothic cathedral. Pax Vobiscum.
User avatar
SexyPimpAss
 
Posts: 3416
Joined: Wed Nov 15, 2006 9:24 am

Post » Fri Nov 27, 2015 9:45 am

That whole 'using pressure to inhibit ice crystal formation' stuff is just stuff the OP made up to explain his submarine thesis, not something that has any evidence behind it for the game. Cryonics have already been shown in the Fallout universe, and without any kind of high-pressure environment around the sleep pods (see the Sierra Army Depot in Fallout 2).

Yes, you'll probably be a marine and you'll probably be frozen - but the OP is jumping at the scant information we have and making wild conjectures from it simply because theorizing is fun, not because he has much of a chance of being right.

User avatar
Lisa Robb
 
Posts: 3542
Joined: Mon Nov 27, 2006 9:13 pm

Post » Fri Nov 27, 2015 12:08 pm

And I agree that theorizing is fun, and something to do while we all wait.

User avatar
xx_Jess_xx
 
Posts: 3371
Joined: Thu Nov 30, 2006 12:01 pm

Post » Fri Nov 27, 2015 10:08 pm

If you wanted to preserve somebody for that long without damaging their body in any way, then you would probably be looking at a very careful balance of extreme high pressure and low temperature. Looking at real world examples, the pressure outside of a submarine at 800 feet is around 347 psi, or 24 bar. With regards to temperature, the most commonly utilised coolant in cryogenics is liquid nitrogen, which will be at around 77 kelvin, or close to -200 degrees celsius. Now lets just say that instead of submerging your subject in the liquid nitrogen, you designed your pod so that they would be surrounded by a layer of coolant in the outer shell of the pod. Increasing the pressure to such a high level whist rapidly introducing the coolant would effectively stop cell progression without freezing or damaging their blood, tissues, and organs. It would also stop the outer shell of the pod from expanding due to the incredibly low temperature.

Now I know that this is still speculation at this stage, but I'm just trying to picture how you would achieve such a feat using what would essentially be relatively low technology compared to anything we see post-war, and that includes all of the other games in the fallout series. I'm also trying to tie all of this in with the idea of vault 111 being built around the concept of a sub. And as you quite rightly said, this gives us something to do whilst we wait for the game to be released!

User avatar
Emmanuel Morales
 
Posts: 3433
Joined: Sat Oct 06, 2007 2:03 pm

Post » Fri Nov 27, 2015 11:03 pm

*reserved*

User avatar
Timara White
 
Posts: 3464
Joined: Mon Aug 27, 2007 7:39 am

Post » Fri Nov 27, 2015 7:18 pm

This reminds me of the movie Pandorum.

I'm definitely curious to find out what the experiment in Vault 111 is all about, however, I really hope they don't go overboard with the whole marine theme as that would get old really quick.

Anyway, Vaults would have to be 100% pressurized and sealed due to the radiation, so it's not unlikely that different levels could have different pressures in order to observe how human live and develop over long periods of time under various pressures, but that would be unlikely since they were all frozen, wouldn't it?

User avatar
Phoenix Draven
 
Posts: 3443
Joined: Thu Jun 29, 2006 3:50 am

Post » Fri Nov 27, 2015 8:50 am

"In the town where I was born,

lived a man who ran to see

if a vault would save his life,

shaped like a submarine..

Then he raised up to the sun

to a scene of withered green

and the radioactive waves

from his vault-like submarine.

We all live in a yellow submarine

Yellow submarine, yellow submarine

We all live in a yellow submarine

Yellow submarine, yellow submarine"

:banana:

User avatar
Valerie Marie
 
Posts: 3451
Joined: Wed Aug 15, 2007 10:29 am

Post » Fri Nov 27, 2015 6:57 pm

Hahahaha, awesome =)

User avatar
TWITTER.COM
 
Posts: 3355
Joined: Tue Nov 27, 2007 3:15 pm

Post » Fri Nov 27, 2015 4:22 pm

Very creative, I like it :D

*whistles tune to submarine song

User avatar
The Time Car
 
Posts: 3435
Joined: Sat Oct 27, 2007 7:13 pm

Post » Fri Nov 27, 2015 6:27 pm

Hmmm, Beatles radio mod confirmed...

User avatar
Hot
 
Posts: 3433
Joined: Sat Dec 01, 2007 6:22 pm

Post » Fri Nov 27, 2015 7:36 am

It could just be the hatch to the chamber leading to the real vault door.
User avatar
Multi Multi
 
Posts: 3382
Joined: Mon Sep 18, 2006 4:07 pm

PreviousNext

Return to Fallout 4