No, I fully understand the point you're presenting, I just do not agree with it. Not agreeing does not mean I do not grasp the concept. Faulty programming/AI does not now mean that it is human. Harkness was a malfunctioning synthetic that may look and act like the real thing but BY DEFINITION or synthetic, is not the genuine article. If this were just a conciousnous in a box that thought it were human would you feel the same way? Or is it because they have it enclosed in a humanoid man made structure?

There weren't exactly walking talking robots around when he said that either.

For my extended response, read through one of the many threads discussing this topic.

Just imagine for a moment your on a bus, sitting next to a young man listening to a radio, tapping his feet to the music. He's eating a candy bar. He gets a call on his cell phone. Apparently the call brought bitter news. He seems upset and cries a few tears, stands, walks to the front of the bus and gets off at the next stop. His feelings are authentic. Now I tell you he is a Synthetic Human. This is how they seem in FO3. Sorry if I disagree with you. Your not doing any justice to the Replicated Man quest in FO3. You say the Railroad is a joke, that's just your opinion. You need to review the quest and holotapes related to that quest.

Synthetics are as real as anyone else in the world. My PC probably will try to defuse whatever situation there is through speech, but I'm not sure who I'll side with when that eventually doesn't work.

^{The arguments over what is or is not human and how to define life/sentience in a synthetic creation are not only a staple of the FO franchise, they go back at least as far as Mary Shelly's "Frankenstein". Funny how in that book the synthetic creation actually winds up being more human that the humans it encounters. The theme runs through not only the VERY first horror motion picture ever made (Frankenstein) but also the most famous of the early Sci-Fi movies "Metropolis". Asimov explored it in the "I, Robot" books long before 'Blade-Runner".}

^{It is not likely that anybody is going to resolve anything here (or anywhere) for a long while.}

^{However, RPG is made to explore how you would react/develop if placed in a archetypical story-line like the one we are discussing....}

^{so my opinion is "Who cares if the MC winds up being a synth... or if there is a major synth component to the main quest line?" We would get to explore the results of our reactions and viewpoints to such a plot-line in game, regardless if we decide we are pro- or anti- synth.}

While I personally hope that the protagonist doesn't end up being a synth, it wouldn't really surprise me in the slightest if we get a side-quest or even a series of side-quests that deal with the Institute taking the "Androids are machines, please capture/contain them" stance versus the Railroad taking the "Androids are sentient beings that deserve equal rights, please free them/keep them free" stance. This issue has a long history of making appearances in science fiction over several decades (fitting the Fallout Traditional Science Fiction theme quite well) and can be handled in an entertaining way. For example, if you have the time and ability, I'd suggest watching Star Trek The Next Generation's episode "Measure of a Man" which deals with this very issue and even briefly mentions slavery. It's considered by many to be very entertaining and one of the best episodes of the entire TNG series.

It does seem though, at least from what little we've seen, that some of the synths have gone full Terminator, and that if we're tasked to hunt down the still sane synths, I probably will not cooperate with the institute.

We'll just agree to disagree. Much like any belief, there will be difference sides.

Actually, none of Harkness "feelings" were authentic at all. Those were all false memories implanted by Pinkerton and he hid the "truth" from him, his true nature of just being an android, until the LW reveals this to him. Then, Harkness knows he isn't human at all, but a machine. So, the whole shaving and all that jazz was just a smoke screen Pinkerton programmed in to give the illusion that Harkness was human, and not Harkness "evolving" to become more human. They just robots, programmed to behave however the programmer decides.

There is more to it than Pinkerton's programming. Self-determination is not a malfunction. He desires freedom. Why would he shave if he didn't grow facial hair? In a nut shell, Blade Runner is how I see it. The very best you just cant tell if they are synthetic or not. Remember the girl goes to Harrison Ford and shows him a picture of her and her mother when she was little. Ford explains it's all fake and she gets emotional and cries. To her, it was very real.

I just can't argue this anymore, tired and basically just don't care anymore.

I get why some people don't like the idea of playing a synth, it's a hard concept to grasp that taps into some some really big questions like the definition of self and sapience. The fact that we can't experience anything other than a human perspective makes us biased towards thinking it's the only way, and a lot of people can't look past that bias.

Synthphobia - hatred of androids exhibited by someone who thinks that they might be one.

While I'm sure what you mentioned plays a factor to some degree in why many people would prefer not to have the protagonist be a synth, not everyone who shares their preference is unable to look past this bias. For example, I'd have no problem personally if my character ended up being a synth, however my reason for hoping that this isn't the case is to avoid the potential damage that Bethesda could suffer for making this choice. Since FO4 was announced, I've seen a huge amount of players, not simply wish to not have the protagonist be a synth, but downright express loathing for the concept. It's happened so often that I'm fairly certain I'm in the minority in being okay if it did happen, and I'm fine with that, however I can't ignore the possibility that Bethesda could face serious backlash if it's an extremely unpopular decision on their part.

I'm a big fan of Bethesda, and want them to continue to make what I consider to be high quality games that I usually enjoy the hell out of for years. If they make a highly significant story-altering plot decision in one of their games that a huge portion of their player base has an extremely negative reaction to, their ability to produce the games I enjoy so much may suddenly become somewhat more difficult and the quality of future games might actually be reduced. Personally, I'd prefer they didn't take the risk for what I view as an interesting but potentially very minor reward depending on how they handled it.

I found some weird screens on the internet, i never seen https://www.google.com/url?sa=i&rct=j&q=&esrc=http://forums.bethsoft.com/topic/1538936-vault-111pcthe-institute-theoryand-more/s&source=images&cd=&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0CAcQjRxqFQoTCPKOw6WI08gCFUl5Pgodi90PiA&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwasp-inc.com%2Fthreads%2Ffallout-4-hype-thread.34291%2F&psig=AFQjCNEx5xVXHKbXKTcdJN5SaOiyu9fBqA&ust=1445499657212047

http://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl=https://41.media.tumblr.com/c0ae694a40f4b6c78684eba7791d37c6/tumblr_nqlv9fp6VS1rhz81io1_500.jpg&imgrefurl=https://www.tumblr.com/tagged/a%253Afallout4&h=375&w=500&tbnid=HZcN8MwsRJyZ1M:&docid=4DTeOcfqlspuLM&hl=en&ei=xUEnVrbHEMet-AGV8JaIBQ&tbm=isch&ved=0CB0QMygaMBo4ZGoVChMI9r3RmojTyAIVxxY-Ch0VuAVR

http://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://i.imgur.com/YL2fLzm.png&imgrefurl=https://www.reddit.com/r/Fallout/comments/3efbpk/&h=533&w=853&tbnid=Pbl94Rl7usHi4M:&docid=CSrLwuwfbjpBzM&hl=en&ei=iEEnVpznNYbA-gHCt4v4Cg&tbm=isch&ved=0CE0QMygXMBdqFQoTCJzL6_2H08gCFQagPgodwtsCrw

My idea is that i never even knew Harkness was a android, i always just did what victoria watts told me to do. My idea is that maybe this could be the faction of androids.

Rachel was a special case in Blade Runner, Dr. Tyrell is also trying to create androids that behave exactly like humans, "more human than human is our motto", and they give false memories to not only control but help the androids bridge the gap in their limited emotional experiences. I would say the reason why Rachel cried isn't because she is "sad" it is because she finally knows what she is, and when she leaves Deckard's apartment, the photos that had met so much to her, she tossed on his table and left them. The false memories become nothing to do her, because that is what they were, fake memories.

Those androids are programmed to behave that way, and have emotional responses, and as the opening sequence says, are as intelligent as the genetic engineers who made them. Which means, they are very smart. Like Deckard says, a "replicant is like any other machine, a benefit or a hazard".

Just because something has an emotional response doesn't mean it is human. Dogs have emotional responses, but they are still dogs. Harkness may look and act human, but it is still a robot, being programmed to learn doesn't change that either, dogs can learn tricks, too.

It is very apparent in the movie Blade Runner and the novel Do Androids Dream of Electric Sheep?, there is a moral dilemma. What does it mean to be human? Biologically, the Replicants are almost identical to humans. The only way the police can tell if someone is synthetic is obtaining a bone marrow sample. They revere life. They show emotion that isn't just "programmed to act" or a learned "trick". Roy and Pris convey genuine love for each other. A genuine concern for one another. Roy has strong feelings of empathy and respect for Deckard which is ironic because they are not believed to be empathetic. Empathy was an indicator of someone's "humanity". There are plenty of people in history who can be said to have no empathy, so are they not human? Philip dike wrote "The purpose of this story as I saw it was that in his job of hunting and killing these replicants, Deckard becomes progressively dehumanized. At the same time, the replicants are being perceived as becoming more human. Finally, Deckard must question what he is doing, and really what is the essential difference between him and them? And, to take it one step further, who is he if there is no real difference?"

Again this is the irony with the "replicated Man" quest in FO3. You the PC, being human, how much "empathy" are you going to show Harnkness? Apparently from many of these post, not very f**king much, making Harkness more "human" than many of you.

"I've seen things you people wouldn't believe. Attack ships on fire off the shoulder of Orion. I watched C-beams glitter in the dark near the Tannhauser gate. All those moments will be lost in time... like tears in rain... Time to die."

Sure there is a moral dilemma, regardless that the replicants in Blade Runner are even far more advanced than Harkness, which, they are. In FO3, it is to be understood that underneath Harkness outer human appearance is nuts and bolts so to speak, while this is not the case in Blade Runner. If it was, you wouldn't need a voight-kompff test to detect them. Blade Runner is much more of a moral dilemma than FO3 androids, and it is not a 100% comparison, due to the huge difference in tech. Regardless, it is specifically stated in the movie that the replicants have the ability to learn, and to assist in their emotions were given memories, with a fail safe of short lifespan, because, as Rachel demonstrates, it would eventually become impossible to detect a replicant from a human. Roy from 5 years ago Blade Runner time would not be the same as Roy current Blade Runner movie time, he "learned" and acquired those feelings.

So, of course there is a moral dilemma in Blade Runner, and not so much in FO. Not saying it is non-existant, but Harkness is much more a machine than a BR replicant is. Part of the dilemma is should science even be creating artificial humans to begin with. The flat truth of the matter is, an artificial human is not a human, just like a cyborg dog is not a real dog. I hope that FO4 is very limited in all of this, because I don't want Fallout Blade Runner. There is nothing fresh and original with that story.

Also, I disagree that empathy is an indicator of a person's humanity, this varies greatly from person to person. Most of us can understand Harkness plight, but he is just a robot, we can help him or not, but it doesn't change the fact he a robot. But again, I just hope none of this crap is in FO 4, as it is not new or original, it is used and worn out.

"Harkness is much more a machine than a BR replicant is." This is nothing more than your opinion. Empathy is what they were testing in their psychological questing of these replicants so I disagree and is a major part of the quest in fallout 3 and basically ignores what the writer,Philip dike, states. Calling Harkness a "robot" is like calling the Hardon particle accelerator a wind tunnel.

I find it humorous that many of you will run around in the game shooting raiders, humans, and not give it a second thought, but will get caught up in your own personal dilemma if confronted with a synthetic being. I'll be a bounty hunter and not give a second thought about disconnecting the power supply on the animated appliances.

If you can be a bounty hunter, I hope it isn't going to be as easy as your implying. Everyone can shoot scumbags all day but lets say one of these "animated appliances" is running a small orphanage. You just going to kill her? If you do, I hope there are repercussions. .

I think you overestimate the amount of people who would really be opposed to the player being an android. We who post on forums make up a very small portion of the playerbase, we can occasionally obsess a little too much over our games and get ourselves worked up waiting for them. I believe most people, upon revelation that the player is an android, would just go 'Huh, that's a twist!' and keep playing. Any decision that Bethesda makes will have some people out there complaining about it, look at those who are upset over the voiced protagonist. I've seen a lot more people worry over that ruining the game for them then those who are concerned about playing an android, so I think it's a little much to think it will cause the downfall of the franchise.

All depends on what the appliance is doing at said orphanage. If it is acting as designed and providing care for orphans and keeping them safe, I would have no reason to unplug it. If however, it is acting outside the parameters of what it was designed to do, then the plug shall be pulled.

slave all the toasters

My character won't discriminate he will enslave the toasters and the meat as he always did.