dike Richardson from Fallout 2,"That's a shame. A conversation with a genuine mutant like you? It'd certainly paint me a picture of what life's like in that radioactive hell on the mainland."

Dr. Curling,"Shouldn't I be? Our research on the villagers clearly shows changes to their DNA. It's a natural result of all the background radiation." "No, not really. You're actually rather different, at least your DNA is. A rather unfortunate effect of generations of background radiation."

Basically, any amount of radiation is unacceptable while the people of the mainland see it as no noticeable problem. And since you brought up FONV, wasn't Nellis still radiated up til 80 years prior to FONV?

from Van Buren....Together with the Enclave, Poseidon Oil helped finance Senator Todd Peterson's secret bunker. In addition, the majority of Poseidon Oil locations seemed to be specifically designed to be easily retrofitted with Enclave technology and personnel, with the notable exception of the Oil Rig's foyer floor.

Athena(from JE Sawyears Fallout RPG) is an incomplete power armor project pioneered by the Enclave in conjunction with Poseidon Energy. According to initial tests, it had defensive capabilities above and beyond any other infantry armor in use before the apocalypse. I believe this is the inspiration behind the new power armor we will see in FO4. Isn't it ironic FO4's new power armor being displayed in a gas station. Much of what we will find in 4 will come from JSs RPG, including the mods of weapons from tons of material in the wasteland.

So are you telling me they created the vault experiments but made no plans for collecting the data? Wasn't it in Vault 87, when the test began, they were in communication with Vault Tec.

Curling states they have been working on finding a solution to the "mainland" problem for 2 decades. He states after they obtained the FEV, it only took a few years to make his version. I would love for you to answer me why they waited 140 years just to decide to solve the mainland problem.

When Richardson says "radioactive hellhole" the CO response is "you don't get out much do you?". IE. Richardson is full of it. Don't take it for the word of God anything that Richardson or any other fanatic says. Then you have Wild FEV, which could be the cause of the slight generic mutation found in survivors. Not to mention also that people are passing their mutations on to their children. It isn't radiation, the games have both shown there is very little radiation left. If any level of radiation is a problem, why on earth would Enclave want to take over the mainland, if it is a "radioactive hellhole". Hell, I would say even Richardson must know he is full of his own crap.

Who knows what the government or Vault Tec was thinking 2077 and prior. Or what the Enclave was doing and thinking for 140 years or 160 years. We have limited information on all of that. It is possible they didn't think the GW would be as destructive as it was, which is evident from the intro to the game, in particular 1 and 2. There are no answers in FO 1, as the Vaults weren't even considered to be experiments during the development of that game. FO 2 only gives us the basics, an introduction that many vaults were experiments, but we don't know why, and Richardson still says they are a part of the solution to survive the war. That is part of the mystery of Fallout, will we get more answers, who knows.

Lastly, it is fairly evident that the Enclave and Poseidon were pretty much in cahoots during the Pre-War times, but that doesn't mean they infiltrated all the Vaults and had some super communication system installed. There is no evidence that Poseidon was involved in the Vaults at all, in fact Poseidon seems to be limited to the Western Half of the USA in regards to their buildings, as we haven't seen a Poseidon presence in the east coast games, yet, anyway.

Richardson says the vaults were part of the solution because there were 17 control vaults, no experiments took place.There is no reason to argue with you anymore. Just keep ignoring the facts anyway. But let me ask one question. Why, if radiation wasn't viewed as a problem, does advanced power armor, created in 2220 by the Enclave, have a radiation resistance of 60? You know ,much of the "mystery of Fallout" is due to people not being able to see the big picture, not being able to read between the lines. Forget this, ive got better things to do, post what you wish, I dont give a [censored], it's not worth any more of my time.

Ignoring what facts? The fact that in FO1 there is one location that requires RadX, and in FO2 you don't need it at all? APA has better resistances across the board, because it is, Advanced PA. Should it have less than PA? Doesn't it make it very advanced does it? Gear bonus is totally irrelevant, just a game mechanic to show improvements, in FO 3 and NV the PA is totally different than what it was in FO1 and 2, because the game mechanics changed.

I read between the lines just fine, which is why I can see Richardson is a fanatic nut job, and is called out as such by the Chosen One, who refutes his "radioactive hell". You didn't answer why the Enclave would want the mainland anyway if it WAS a radioactive hellhole, which is isn't anyway. There are also plenty of Enclave, ON the mainland, with no PA at all. I guess they mutants now eh? All the mechanics at Navarro, and the troopers in Enclave combat armor, the scientists, and Chris, the watch at the gas station. Not in APA, and on the "radioactive hellhole" mainland...

Why you get all sensitive when debating FO lore? lol.

Not neccessarily true. Everything costs time and resources. If Radiation isn't a particular worry, why should you waste more time and resources giving your standard equipment better radiation resistance than the last generation? It's a better use of resources to create a smaller amount of specialized equipment for use in areas that are either suspected or confirmed to be highly radioactive than to install that stuff on EVERY suit if it won't be necessary 99.9% of the time.

Because the game mechanic of improved resistance can just be attributed to better materials, not that they sought out to build something with better rad resistance. Hell, in FO 3 and NV an advanced radiation suit has better protection against radiation than any PA does.

Also, the APA, which is in NV, only has +15 rad resistance, while T51b has +25 rad resistance. Meaning, that in the modern game mechanics, APA has LESS rad resistance than T51b. Go figure.

The reason why PA has rad resistance at all to begin with is it is a sealed environment. APA just uses better materials, but I guess that doesn't equal better resistances, according to the newer game mechanics, as noted above.

... because the whole design purpose of those suits were to protect the wearer from radiation. Rad resistance in PA seems to be a tacked-on afterthought, with the primary focus of heavy armor plating and strength-boosting servos.
That kinda proves your original point (APA has better stats,accross the board because it's Advanced PA) incorrect, since APA was predumably designed to be better than the prior-gen suits, meaning the T-51s.

What it proves is you can't use game mechanics to prove canon. It is just like debating PA and what is canon about it, and how it reacts in game. In game someone with an assault rifle, a pistol, a shotgun can kill someone in PA, which according to "canon" should be just about an impossible thing to happen.

In canon, PA offers good radiation protection because it is a sealed environment. Presumably, APA, at least in FO2, offered better because of better materials. We know via the games there is no massive radiation threat except in certain specific areas, and the Enclave have people on the mainland not in PA, which proves they know this.

Again, not necessarily true. In 1982, the British were involved in the Falkands war. Amongst the things they sent out were several naval ships of the then-current generation.

The British were surprised when it turned out that a few of those ships sank taking fire that WWII era ships of the same class would survive, if not shrug off. If the ships were about 40 years more advanced than their WWII counterparts, they shouldn't have sunk.

So why did they? Because the 1982 generation ships were adapted to the current naval tactics, which put a much lesser emphasis on slugging matches between ships than in WWII. Therefore, armoring was seen as less desireable than speed and agility. That means that for all the advances the 1982 generation had over the WWII generation, they might as well have been made of balsa wood when fired upon.

Better materials and tech doesn't necessarily mean that something is more advanced and capable accross the board. If the APA has higher radiation resistance, that means that the Enclave had believed that there was a good chance their standard troops would be going into radioactive areas, not that they used better materials which, by coincidence, made the armor better at resisting radiation.

This is a cool idea. The whole part about Shaun that people are criticizing could easily be replaced by any number of other reasons for a recovery team to wake you up. That, and there's always the possibility that Shaun and the PC's spouse are human, hence why they didn't survive the blast.

Whatever Bethesda does, I hope they still offer plenty of room to define our characters as we see fit.

I didn't say that is always the case with everything, but in FO 2 that is apparently the case. Who knows. Maybe APA was sealed better, or had a better filter in the mask, or because of the durability of the armor was less likely to compromise the armor, thus giving it the in game stats of better rad resistance, in FO 2...as in FO NV, it isn't. Again, it is ridiculous to debate over game statistics and mechanics when it comes to lore. If Enclave was so worried about mainland radiation, they wouldn't have troops stationed on the mainland, and they wouldn't have those troops in gear that did nothing to protect them from radiation. It is never stated in game, not once, that Enclave made APA to help against radiation. It just advanced power armor, that makes the bad guys look cool, and has better stats that PA.

FACT: You can walk all over creation in FO 2 and your rads will never increase, you don't need a radx or a radaway. Ever.

Forget the APA, of course it doesn't mean anything, don't know what the hell I was thinking. Just one of those freaking FO mysteries. Your initial comment was about them taking 160 years to find Mariposa. Curling states it was 2 decades ago when they put plans into effect to take back the mainland, which coincides with the development of APA, but [censored] the APA. They both, especially Richardson, speak of concerns about the background radiation, Richardson calling the mainland a radiated hellhole. Is he wrong, yes but that is not the way they see it. To the PC and the other "mutants" on the mainland, it's not a problem but to them it is. I work in the medical field. I'm around x-rays and CT scans all day. Do I go home and take a Rad-x or KI, no I don't. It isn't a problem but to Richardson and Curling it is.

This is what I know. Any and all communications with the Oil Rig is via PoseidonNet. The Vaults(Vault-Tec) conducted experiments. Is it wrong to assume that data was at least planned to be collected? Is it wrong to assume at some point the Enclave wanted to retrieve this data and since they retreat to the Oil Rig(and other "hot-spots") which has PosidenNet communications, this is how data was initially planed to be collected? And yes they may have had plans for these vaults and the data they produced when they retook the mainland but guess what, the Oil Rig was destroyed. So it really doesn't matter now does it?

Oh btw, the DataPlex 2000smarTerminal on the Poseidon Energy Oil Rig: "Presidential Security Passkey recognized, Good day, Mr. President. Emergency Counter Insurgency Protocol initiated (**Malfunction**) Security link offline on this level. Please submit form FG-I-106-32-0635 to authorize repair services. Thanks for using another fine Vault-Tek product. Good day"

Also found on this computer is State of the Nation:"Fellow Americans, I have been honored to be the steward that will take the American people back to the mainland to reclaim the United States for its own citizens. We will be the first generation free of the mutant threat in over one hundred years." Wiki defines this "mutant threat" as "mutations and their causes", ie radiation....go figure. Then there is the "Enclave Mutation Policy" which states that people of the mainland exposed to this ambient radiation are considered mutants. Curling states exposure to the this "radiation", generation after generation, has caused people of the mainland to be mutants. So its been over a long period of time.. thus generation after generation.

So give me a reason why the Enclave did nothing for 140 years, other than the radiation and their fear of being "mutated". Please don't tell me it's a mystery

Or maybe the Enclave are a bunch of Government folks who are paranoid about retaining their genetic purity from mutation, and thus purposefully constructed APA to protect against the largest source of mutation in an area that they saw (incorrectly or not) as irradiated.

What's the stronger argument here? That APA was purposefully designed to have better rad resistance, which would be characteristic from the Enclave's focus on genetic purity and concerns over the nature of the wasteland, or it having better rad resistance by a completely unintentional fluke of its design?

I guess Enclave was planning on living their entire lives on the mainland in APA eh? They didn't even have enough suits to go around, as there are a bunch of troops on the rig in regular T51. What about their civilians? All the people stationed on the mainland in no PA at all? I guess they all mutants now.

It isn't a fluke of the design, if you have better materials that create a better sealed environment, it is a given that rad resistance would be better. Of course, again, this is odd, because in FONV, APA does NOT have better rad resistance. Which, as I have stated, is a prime reason why debates over weapon damage, game mechanics, etc when discussing canon is irrelevant.

They actually found Mariposa 70 years prior to FO2. Which means the Enclave had been conducting ops on the mainland since at least 2172.

You are taking the word of two fanatics who are bigots towards "mutation" in that they are going to kill ever living thing on the planet. Not the best source for the actual state of reality in the FO Universe. One of those two you can convince it is a horrible plan.

Clearly the Enclave also has the tech to detect radiation levels.

There has never been a Vault with any hint of Poseidon Net installed in it to send data. If there was ever a plan to retrieve data, it wasn't over Poseidon Net, and whatever it was failed. We don't know because it has never been revealed in game. When dealing with canon, you can't guess and say it is official. You can make assumptions all you want, but at the end of the day that is all it is, speculation.

The mutation threat is strictly all the people living on the mainland and all over the world. The release of the modified FEV isn't going to clean up "radiation" where there are hot pockets of activity. It would do nothing to those places. So, clearly the wiki is wrong, and the mutant threat is just people,or Richardson is also a liar, because there would still be a threat, at certain locations, as FEV does nothing to stop radiation, only kill humanoids.

As far as what Enclave did prior to FO 2, it was work on plans that would allow them to take over, which probably included various plans of how to kill everyone but them.

Sounds more like an intentional design choice to protect against radiation, not something that's "just happening" because the Enclave wants to protect their armor against bullets better.

Designs are not randomly chosen. Do you seriously think the Enclave were building their PA and ended up saying "Huh, well would you look at that. It has better rad resistance than the older models. Weird." That makes it sound like the Enclave doesn't understand their own tech or design procedures.

The hell you say.The Enclave discovered Mariposa in 2236...

So if the radiation is gone, according to you, they could have been on the mainland decades ago. Your ignoring the facts. What you claim doesn't make sense. What part of generation after generation being exposed to radiation you dont understand.

Just a random post to help reach post limit since I don't think anyone will ever settle the Enclave back and forth.

It sounds to me that you guys are making more out of it than it really is. At no point in time does a single person in FO 2 say "we made APA to protect us against the radioactive hellhole(which doesn't exist)". You said people don't waste resources on development, now you have them building something out of paranoia and not based in reality. What next, they gonna build a giant raygun to defend them against the loch ness monster?

You are debating game stats. Conflicting game stats at that, as what we have in canon now is that APA is NOT as good as T51. I guess they failed royally if they were trying to make something to protect them against rads when it isn't as good as T51.

I don't think it is some mystery why APA was made, I think as far as the devs were concerned, they wanted cool looking armor for the Enclave, they didn't go into details on the background, and the reason in games to make cool armor is to make it better than other armor, otherwise people won't use it in the game, hence, better stats, better armor, better resistances. Canon doesn't work like "well this gives +rad resistance so they made it specifically to protect against radiation". It gives the +rad resistance because it is a sealed environment. When that seal breaks, it is compromised, as evident in the Glow FO 1. PA was made to turn a man into a tank, not as a anti-radiation protector, that is the #1 priority for making the armor, a human tank, being able to withstand enemy fire. All other bonuses are just that, an added bonus.

Yep, the hell I say.

"{240}{prs41}{We found a research facility in operational shape about 70 years ago. A former military base that had been used to research a special virus.}"

Come on LostPony...lets shut this bich down!

It's been fun, like when your mother catches you having get. Time to end this once and for all

Ok I guess Ill just restate my point.

This!

Wait and see if my predictions are true.

Times up Evil bastard...you are an evil bastard