Vector graphics

Post » Sat Feb 19, 2011 9:16 am

have you even checked the whole post some guy posted hyper realistic models made of vectors. they are way better than the current modeling systems because when you get closer to a model it stays somooth


Where are you seeing realistic vector models? Those are vector art not models.

Has anyone here actually done any vector art? Cause if you have then you'd realize that it's not going to be used on game meshes.

Within no time you can get a pretty realistic looking texture on a simple model by having some base colors and then adding some photo or brush overlays to add realistic texture to it. Trying to draw all that out in vectors would not only be impossible, but even if it was possible it would take an eternity to get the same level of detail. A vector is non-rasterized meaning you couldn't add in any rasterized detail like you do in photoshop with drawn details with brushes or overlayed photo's; the overall result would look very airbrushed or geometric at best.
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Robert Bindley
 
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Post » Sat Feb 19, 2011 9:53 am

have you even checked the whole post some guy posted hyper realistic models made of vectors. they are way better than the current modeling systems because when you get closer to a model it stays somooth

:facepalm:

For the last time, thats a mesh for a TEXTURE....A 2D IMAGE. Its called a GRADIENT MESH.

I don't know how many more times I can explain myself.
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Brian LeHury
 
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Post » Fri Feb 18, 2011 7:53 pm

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q-ATtrImCx4

By the gods... This is amazing
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Anthony Santillan
 
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Post » Sat Feb 19, 2011 8:25 am

By the gods... This is amazing

My mind is f****** blown clean away. OMFG! :drool:

It's the electric car of the gaming industry.
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Inol Wakhid
 
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Post » Fri Feb 18, 2011 8:57 pm

Ugly as hell (IMO); Also seems to be Voxel based. (?)

Voxels can be pretty cool if you can coax pretty results from it. Bad visuals from it look like everything is made from Legos.

On the positive side, everything is easily made destructible. Shadow Warrior had Voxel sprites for some items in the game... Things like lamp posts.
You can do some really neat things using Voxels... IIRC the game "Outcast" was Voxel based. I'm not sure how smooth the animation would be though.
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Big Homie
 
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Post » Sat Feb 19, 2011 2:39 am

Ugly as hell (IMO); Also seems to be Voxel based. (?)

Voxels can be pretty cool if you can coax pretty results from it. Bad visuals from it look like everything is made from Legos.

On the positive side, everything is easily made destructible. Shadow Warrior had Voxel sprites for some items in the game... Things like lamp posts.
You can do some really neat things using Voxels... IIRC the game "Outcast" was Voxel based.

They differentiate it from voxels. It's entirely different as voxels still have a resolution (in world space) and thus aliasing. To get "unlimited detail" you'd have to have the voxels at an infinite or near-infinite resolution. This makes it so that for each pixel of your screen they look up with a search algorithm what to put in that pixel based on a point cloud, basically.

I'm not defending their technique necessarily, but in other videos they clarify that what you see is "programmer art" meaning these are technical demos and the art direction is defined by the ability of the programmers doing the code. They praise current games for their art direction and what they achieve with so few polys. On a non-artistic level I still thought it was ugly. Tons of artifacting and flickering, but they explain in another video that it's because of the newness of the technique and their code. But I think a lot of why it looks like an 80s or 90s tech demo is because of the material lighting and coloring, etc., in addition to the art direction. Maybe those are technical things they're still working out.

There are already similar workflows like zBrush that use the basic idea, though they call their tech "pixols", and still inevitably conform the idea to polygon-based workflows... but the tech is already there for them to export to this "pixel cloud" format if they wanted. And instead of "textures" the color detail would be attributed to the pixels, which zBrush does with Polypaint.

I'd honestly rather see tessellation support beefed up in GPUs (and future consoles), with a focus on improvements to the tech in the next version of DirectX. AMD tessellation performance is behind Nvidia's, though, and it becomes less valuable to developers with this divide (to the point where it may not run well on even high-end AMD GPUs). It's still a good solution with less pain to transition to than something like voxels or "Unlimited Detail". Can't imagine animation on that system, though they do have videos, it seems wasteful animating millions of points. With tessellation, you can use the workflows you're already used to as an animator, designer, etc. and still get a high LOD near the camera and lower LOD as you get further away. It works as a continuous LOD system and would make it easier in many ways as it could also abolish the LOD "pop-in" system just as Unlimited Detail does.

Though of course by 2050, if I'm still alive, I hope to see 360-degree surround, virtual reality with some kind of Unlimited Detail technology. I'm impatient so maybe 2020 would be better. :)
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Jeff Turner
 
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Post » Sat Feb 19, 2011 8:19 am

Yeah then all we would have to do is insert the game disc into our super computers. :tops:

edit: Oh yeah, and wait 5 years for the super computer to process the game. YAY! I can't wait.
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Alexis Acevedo
 
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Post » Sat Feb 19, 2011 5:05 am

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q-ATtrImCx4


Yep, thats the video I was thinking of when I saw this thread. Very good looking, and its a few years old too.
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dean Cutler
 
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Post » Sat Feb 19, 2011 9:08 am

one day......when processors are 4 time faster then they are now, and decca cores lol.
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Andrew
 
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Post » Sat Feb 19, 2011 11:34 am

Useless feature and can only be applied to a limited number of texture surfaces.
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Chloe Botham
 
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Post » Sat Feb 19, 2011 11:53 am

Ugly as hell (IMO); Also seems to be Voxel based. (?)

Voxels can be pretty cool if you can coax pretty results from it. Bad visuals from it look like everything is made from Legos.

On the positive side, everything is easily made destructible. Shadow Warrior had Voxel sprites for some items in the game... Things like lamp posts.
You can do some really neat things using Voxels... IIRC the game "Outcast" was Voxel based. I'm not sure how smooth the animation would be though.


Way to not listen to anything they said in the video. :thumbsup: While their artwork may look like crap, it is a technical demonstration, their artwork means nothing. They are simply illustrating the fact that they can have trillions of points of the screen at once and retain a stable framerate.

I do have to remain skeptical, though. Theres always some sort of pitfall with anything to do with gaming technology.
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Hussnein Amin
 
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Post » Sat Feb 19, 2011 1:14 am

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q-ATtrImCx4


I hope that we get to see this on TESVI.
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Kahli St Dennis
 
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Post » Fri Feb 18, 2011 7:46 pm

Way to not listen to anything they said in the video. :thumbsup: While their artwork may look like crap, it is a technical demonstration, their artwork means nothing. They are simply illustrating the fact that they can have trillions of points of the screen at once and retain a stable framerate.

I do have to remain skeptical, though. Theres always some sort of pitfall with anything to do with gaming technology.
I watched it; and I understood it... Still ugly. :shrug: That they are not artists shouldn't excuse that riiight?


Looks like somebody else is doing the same thing... Did 'Unlimited Detail' mention how their method differs from Voxel?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HScYuRhgEJw

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lpfaFrazOn4

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VpEpAFGplnI
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Jade Barnes-Mackey
 
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Post » Sat Feb 19, 2011 3:17 am

I watched it; and I understood it... Still ugly. :shrug: That they are not artists shouldn't excuse that riiight?


Looks like somebody else is doing the same thing... Did 'Unlimited Detail' mention how their method differs from Voxel?

It does excuse it. Programmer tech demos are not a showcase for visual aesthetic. They are a showcase for the capabilities of a new tech.

I already explained how they differ from voxel in my last post, which was (mostly) in reply to you.
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brenden casey
 
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Post » Sat Feb 19, 2011 6:36 am

We'll see before http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Id_Tech_6 on a game rather than that...
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naana
 
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Post » Fri Feb 18, 2011 8:52 pm

It does excuse it. Programmer tech demos are not a showcase for visual aesthetic. They are a showcase for the capabilities of a new tech.
?
Its still ugly :shrug:
Its not a relative sliding scale here.
I understand that its "place-holder" art ~its still ugly.

I already explained how they differ from voxel in my last post, which was (mostly) in reply to you.
Then (please, if you would) explain the linked videos I referenced (at least in so much as how they are different).

Also... Is it known whether UD is using 2d art or vector art as texture information? (or something else?)
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LuCY sCoTT
 
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Post » Sat Feb 19, 2011 6:54 am

Nobody seems to have mentioned yet that ID tech 6 will apparently be based on what Carmack calls "sparse voxel octrees". It's a tech that would allow a very advanced LOD system that can do infinitely tiny details. So it's just a matter of how much one can spend on 3d design and / or procedural 3d art asset generation. They also have the megatexture tech which is basically the same for textures, though it's not vector graphics.

And since Zenimax owns Id, one could assume that in some respects Id tech and the Creation engine would converge. I can't find a reason why they wouldn't.
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Stacey Mason
 
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Post » Sat Feb 19, 2011 11:09 am

Vector graphics when will we have it in an elder scrolls games considering we get a new elder scrolls every 5 years or so


Your kiding, right?

Do you know vectors are very demanding for graphic processing?



I mixed vectors with NURBS... But any way, it's very demanding for rendering.
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kevin ball
 
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Post » Sat Feb 19, 2011 9:08 am

Your kiding, right?

Do you know vectors are very demanding for graphic processing?



I mixed vectors with NURBS... But any way, it's very demanding for rendering.


Yeah, we still triangulate polygons to save processor cycles... I don't think NURBS will be in for a long time, if ever. when rendering time is not an issue, it saves time, but when it is, you'd have to set NURBS quality so low it would just be limitting.
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Cameron Garrod
 
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Post » Sat Feb 19, 2011 8:39 am

The original poster just found out vector graphics and went "cool, i want infinite-definition textures in Skyrim".

My advice, read some more.
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Tiff Clark
 
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Post » Sat Feb 19, 2011 9:10 am

the question is when will we get it in an elderscrolls game.



in 2.22.2022 in elders scroll VII: Mundus adventure
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Amy Gibson
 
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