very very slow frame rates outside : IV

» Sat May 28, 2011 1:17 pm

I ran into some hardware difficulties on my system and had to stop playng soon after finishing an FCOM install. Prior to stopping, I was getting quite good/smooth frame rates outside. Thinking my system problems might have been FCOM related, I disabled all my mods and ran vanilla Oblivion. Didn't make it out of the 1st dungeon. After solving my system problems (got a new PSU and reapplied thermal paste on my mobo south and northbridge and CPU heat sink). Reinstalled my full FCOM install but might have selected some options in some big mods like OOO that I hadn't before (such as water weeds). Running Oblivion and all was fine in the dungeons. Outside though, the performance is much much slower than before, with a lot of stuttering. If folks could review my Wrye bash master list file and suggest any likely culprits that I should disable, I'd greatly appreciate it. I made sure to turn off all AA and AF on my ATI Radeon HD 4800. I have a 2.53G Core Two Duo and 4G DDR 800 RAM.

I am using QTP 3 Redimized and NEVWD, but I had those running before and had acceptable frame rates outside. I'd guess my frames per second now are around 10 or so...way slower than anything I had before with the same mods installed- though I might have added more or different individual components for larger OMODs like MMM and OOO (also, I tried within OBMM to remove the OOO water weeds.esp but recieved a message stating I couldn't remove it b/c i was part of the OOO mod. I should be able to remove this esp, yes?)
Thanks.

PS- My mobo (EVGA 680i) is running fine now, system tempatures are good, and other games are running well, so I am thinking I have some esp or something active that is really bogging things down when outside.

Spoiler

00 Oblivion.esm
01 Francesco's Leveled Creatures-Items Mod.esm
02 Francesco's Optional New Items Add-On.esm
03 Cobl Main.esm [Version 1.71]
04 Oscuro's_Oblivion_Overhaul.esm [Version 1.33]
05 Mart's Monster Mod.esm [Version 3.7b3p3]
06 TamrielTravellers.esm [Version 1.39c]
07 FCOM_Convergence.esm [Version 0.9.9MB3]
08 Armamentarium.esm [Version 1.35]
09 Unofficial Oblivion Patch.esp [Version 3.2.0]
0A DLCShiveringIsles.esp
0B Unofficial Shivering Isles Patch.esp [Version 1.4.0]
0C Francesco's Optional Chance of Stronger Bosses.esp
0D Francesco's Optional Chance of Stronger Enemies.esp
0E Francesco's Optional Chance of More Enemies.esp
0F Francesco's Optional Leveled Guards.esp
++ FCOM_Francescos.esp [Version 0.9.9]
++ FCOM_FrancescosItemsAddOn.esp [Version 0.9.9]
10 FCOM_FrancescosNamedBosses.esp [Version 0.9.9]
11 RAEVWD Cities.esp [Version 1.7]
12 RAEVWD New Sheoth.esp [Version 1.5]
13 RAEVWD Imperial City.esp [Version 1.7]
14 DLCOrrery.esp
15 DLCOrrery - Unofficial Patch.esp [Version 1.0.3]
16 DLCVileLair.esp
17 DLCVileLair - Unofficial Patch.esp [Version 1.0.5]
18 DLCMehrunesRazor.esp
19 DLCMehrunesRazor - Unofficial Patch.esp [Version 1.0.4]
1A DLCSpellTomes.esp
++ DLCSpellTomes - Unofficial Patch.esp [Version 1.0.1]
1B DLCThievesDen.esp
1C DLCThievesDen - Unofficial Patch.esp [Version 1.0.5]
1D DLCThievesDen - Unofficial Patch - SSSB.esp [Version 1.0.4]
1E Cobl Glue.esp [Version 1.69]
1F Cobl Si.esp [Version 1.63]
20 OOO 1.32-Cobl.esp [Version 1.69]
++ FCOM_Cobl.esp [Version 0.9.9]
21 Bob's Armory Oblivion.esp
22 FCOM_BobsArmory.esp [Version 0.9.9]
23 Oblivion WarCry EV.esp
24 FCOM_WarCry.esp [Version 0.9.9MB3]
25 Oscuro's_Oblivion_Overhaul.esp [Version 1.33]
++ ArmamentariumLLVendors.esp [Version 1.35]
26 ArmamentariumArtifacts.esp [Version 1.35]
27 FCOM_Convergence.esp [Version 0.9.9Mb3]
++ FCOM_EntropicOrderRebalance.esp [Version 0.9.9beta2]
28 FCOM_RealSwords.esp [Version 0.9.9]
29 FCOM_DurabilityAndDamage.esp [Version 0.9.9]
2A Mart's Monster Mod - More Wilderness Life.esp [Version 3.7b3p3]
++ Mart's Monster Mod - More Passive Wildlife.esp [Version 3.7b3p3]
++ FCOM_SaferRoads.esp [Version 0.9.9]
++ FCOM_LessReaversInGates.esp [Version 0.9.9]
2B Mart's Monster Mod - Extra Wounding.esp [Version 3.7b3p3]
++ Mart's Monster Mod - Looting NPCs & Creatures.esp [Version 3.7b3p3]
++ Mart's Monster Mod - Less Reavers.esp [Version 3.7b3p3]
2C Mart's Monster Mod - Dungeons of MMM.esp [Version 3.7b3p3]
2D Mart's Monster Mod - Gems & Gem Dust.esp [Version 3.7b3p3]
2E Mart's Monster Mod - Hunting & Crafting.esp [Version 3.7b3p3]
2F Mart's Monster Mod - Farm Animals.esp [Version 3.7b3p3]
30 Mart's Monster Mod - Diverse WaterLife.esp [Version 3.7b3p3]
++ Mart's Monster Mod - Slof Horses Complete.esp [Version 3.7b3p3]
++ Mart's Monster Mod - Diverse Runeskulls Loot G&GD.esp [Version 3.7b3p3]
31 TamrielTravellers4OOO.esp [Version 1.39c]
++ TamrielTravellersItemsnpc.esp [Version 1.39c]
++ FCOM_TamrielTravelers.esp [Version 0.9.9]
++ FCOM_DiverseGuardUnity.esp [Version 0.9.9]
++ FCOM_BobsGuardUnity.esp [Version 0.9.9]
++ FCOM_HungersUnitySI.esp [Version 0.9.9]
++ FCOM_Archery.esp [Version 0.9.9]
++ FCOM_FriendlierFactions.esp [Version 0.9.9]
32 FCOM_MoreRandomSpawns.esp [Version 0.9.9]
33 FCOM_MoreRandomItems.esp [Version 0.9.9]
++ Mart's Monster Mod - Shivering Isles.esp [Version 3.7b3p3]
++ ArmamentariumLL4OOO.esp [Version 2.01]
++ ArmamentariumLLMagicOOO.esp [Version 1.35]
34 OOO-WaterFish.esp [Version 1.34]
++ MMM-Cobl.esp [Version 1.69]
35 DLCBattlehornCastle.esp
36 DLCBattlehornCastle - Unofficial Patch.esp [Version 1.0.4]
37 DLCFrostcrag.esp
38 DLCFrostcrag - Unofficial Patch.esp [Version 1.0.4]
39 Knights.esp
3A Knights - Unofficial Patch.esp [Version 1.0.9]
3B Mart's Monster Mod - City Defences.esp [Version 3.7b3p3]
++ FCOM_Knights.esp [Version 0.9.9Mb3]
3C Harvest [Flora].esp [Version 3.0.0]
++ Harvest [Flora] - Shivering Isles.esp [Version 3.0.0]
++ Harvest [Flora] - DLCVileLair.esp [Version 3.0.0]
3D Harvest [Flora] - DLCFrostcrag.esp [Version 3.0.0]
3E Deadlier Sneaking 1.1.esp
++ Francesco's Slower skills x1.5.esp
3F Cobl Races.esp [Version 1.52]
40 Francesco's 10 days respawn time - 1-20 day lenght rescale.esp
41 Bashed Patch, 0.esp
42 FormID Finder4.esp
43 kuerteeActorDetails.esp
44 Streamline 3.1.esp
45 Living Economy.esp
46 Living Economy - Items.esp
47 Cutthroat Merchants.esp

» Sat May 28, 2011 11:07 pm

First of all if you're using wrye bash try running boss (and actually read it too as it can give some helpful insight).
Yes you should be able to remove water weeds though i have no clue why you can't.
Try using silent feet and see if that helps any because you are using the more wilderness life addon that may be a problem
also using addons that add alot more spawn points means there are more enemies around that can cause lag.
Thats the best advice i can give as i'm no expert, try it and let me know if it helps.

» Sun May 29, 2011 12:03 am

nvm.

» Sat May 28, 2011 3:35 pm

First of all if you're using wrye bash try running boss (and actually read it too as it can give some helpful insight).
Yes you should be able to remove water weeds though i have no clue why you can't.
Try using silent feet and see if that helps any because you are using the more wilderness life addon that may be a problem
also using addons that add alot more spawn points means there are more enemies around that can cause lag.
Thats the best advice i can give as i'm no expert, try it and let me know if it helps.

I'm already using silent feet. Still wondering how I can remove Water Weeds- couldn't do so through OBMM by removing the esp, maybe because I created an OMOD out of OOO? Which application is preferrable to use to remove esps- WryeBash, OBMM, or just deleting the esp from the Oblivion data folder?

» Sat May 28, 2011 10:12 pm

And what are you frames rates without RAEVWD installed once again..

OOO is not the correct Version you need 1.34beta5

34 OOO-WaterFish.esp [Version 1.34] < - This is killer on frame rates has well. Disable this..

» Sun May 29, 2011 2:41 am

I have OOO 1.34 beta 5 installed

Thanks for the tip re: the waterfish esp. I clicked "edit" on the OOO OMOD and removed the water weeds and am recreating the OMOD. I don't see the waterfish.esp in the OOO OMOD, but it does seem to be in my BOSS file, so what suggestion do you have for removing it? Hopefully, I can just delete it from within OBMM

» Sat May 28, 2011 8:12 pm

Yeah waterfish is unnecessary anyway if you use mmm's diverse waterlife which is better im my opinion. and have you tried using a reduced spawn addon from one of the overhauls to see if it had any effect?

» Sat May 28, 2011 6:54 pm

I haven't tried a reduced spawn rate in any of the overhauls.

I did remove both OOO waterfish and waterweeds, but my frame rates outside are the same...ridiculously bad. I am pretty sure the problem is one of the mods and not the graphic overhauls (QTP and NEVWD) b/c I was getting good frame rates outside before with both those graphics overhauls enabled.

Is there a way I can reduce the spawn rates from either/both OOO and FFF without having to edit and then reinstall either mod? In order to remove both water weeds and water fish esps from OOO, I had to disable, remove, and then rebuild both the OOO and OOO 1.34 beta 5 patch within OBMM as OMODs. Hoping there's an easier way to adjust spawn rates.

Any other ideas what might be causing this? I have the same graphic settings in Oblivion as a I did before, and not AA or AF running on my card. Thanks.

» Sat May 28, 2011 1:55 pm

Well MMM comes with optional esps for reducing or increasing spawn rates and you could try deactivating esps that increase them. Specifically FCOM_MoreRandomSpawns.esp and Mart's Monster Mod - More Wilderness Life.esp.

» Sat May 28, 2011 9:24 pm

11 RAEVWD Cities.esp [Version 1.7]
12 RAEVWD New Sheoth.esp [Version 1.5]
13 RAEVWD Imperial City.esp [Version 1.7]

Disable those, or just #13 first, and re-run tes4lodgen. See what you get. City architecture is pretty hefty, but especially the IC stuff.

» Sat May 28, 2011 3:50 pm

If you're struggling with framerate I'd drop RAEVWD entirely. My system is heftier than yours (Core i5-750, Radeo 5850) and even for me RAEVWD isn't worth what you have to give up as far as reduced spawns/world activity and reduced settings to get acceptable performance with it.

» Sat May 28, 2011 1:21 pm

Thanks folks. I'll give those suggestions a try.

I have a hunch it is RAEVWD and especially the Imperical City esp, b/c my framerate dies when I'm close it it. Removed the esp in OBMM and rebuiling my bashed patch and will then run tes4lodgen.

» Sat May 28, 2011 9:47 pm

What are your uGridDistantTreeRange and uGridDistantCount settings in Oblivion.ini? Lowering those helps a lot if using RAEVWD.

» Sat May 28, 2011 11:56 pm

uGridDistantTreeRange=15 and uGridDistantCount=25. What do you suggest as a good amount to lower- by 5?

» Sat May 28, 2011 10:56 am

I personally use 10 for both. If you use a fog mod such as streamline or (shameless self plug here) Combat FPS Updated (which uses 10 as default) then the fog covers up the non-rendered distant LOD, and Cyrodiil seems even bigger. Plus it really helps your framerates. There's another fiog mod which I've heard good things about by RedBag, although it's only good for the default weathers and won't be much good if you use a weather mod.

Also, you don't need to use any RAEVWD esps. I'd remove the Imperial City architecture meshes too as well.

» Sat May 28, 2011 3:38 pm

OK, thanks. I'll check out these fog mods (seems they are the exact opposite of RAEVWD in that they obscure distant parts of the map with fog?)
Why don't I need to use the RAEVWD esps? If I remove them, aren't I gtting rid of RAEVWD entirely?

» Sat May 28, 2011 12:28 pm

Fog is one of those try it and see things. I personally much prefer it - it's definitely a case of less is more, and the extra VWD objects are not obsolete in the slightest as the prevent the unsightly pop in that occurs even with fog settings in action.

You don't need any RAEVWD esp's as the meshes are placed by running Tes4LodGen. The esps provide extras that aren't available through this method alone. For me personally, I never see inside city walls when outside (apart from chapels) so detailed representations of the inside seem unnecessary.

How are you installing the mod? Using Wrye Bash's BAIN function is the best method of installing RAEVWD as you can select which mesh packages you want. I suggest everything apart from Imperial City Architecture and Higher Detail Castles and Bridges.

edit: I would also consider getting rid of QTP3 if you want to use RAEVWD. I said goodbye to it not long ago and replaced it with Bomret's Detailed Normal maps and Abnormal Caves. The game still looks wicked and performs much better.

» Sat May 28, 2011 5:37 pm

I'll check out Bomret's detailed normal maps and abnormal caves...I love how good QTP3 looks but if Bomret's looks comparable and delivers better performance, I'll go that route.

I downloaded your Combat FPS but haven't installed it yet b/c I see two esp files- CombatFPSOptimizer and All Natural Combat FPS...esp, but no instructions on what to do with All Natural Combat FPS...
I'm guessing that this is for users of All Natural Weather to use instead of Combat FPS, but I wanted to check w/ you to make sure before adding anything to my mod list.

I installed RAEVWD via OBMM. Will disabling all the RAEVWD esps improve my framerates then?

Thanks.

It looks like Bomret's Abnormal Caves aren't compatible with QTP3. Bummer. http://www.tesnexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=20778

» Sat May 28, 2011 10:12 pm

I'll check out Bomret's detailed normal maps and abnormal caves...I love how good QTP3 looks but if Bomret's looks comparable and delivers better performance, I'll go that route.

I downloaded your Combat FPS but haven't installed it yet b/c I see two esp files- CombatFPSOptimizer and All Natural Combat FPS...esp, but no instructions on what to do with All Natural Combat FPS...
I'm guessing that this is for users of All Natural Weather to use instead of Combat FPS, but I wanted to check w/ you to make sure before adding anything to my mod list.

I installed RAEVWD via OBMM. Will disabling all the RAEVWD esps improve my framerates then?

Thanks.

It looks like Bomret's Abnormal Caves aren't compatible with QTP3. Bummer. http://www.tesnexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=20778

All Natural Combat FPS is just a patch to use if you use All Natural - Weather. It is to be merged into your bashed patch. It doesn't replace CombatFPSOptimizer.

You need to disable the RAEVWD esps and then rebuild DistantLOD using TES4LodGen.

If you decide to get rid of QTP and replace it with Bomret's Detailed Normal Maps and Abnormal Caves, they don't need to be compatible do they?

» Sun May 29, 2011 1:43 am

I was hoping I could use Bomret's Abnormal Caves and not his Detailied Normal Maps, while still keeping QTP3. Thanks for the information re: rebuiliding my DistantLOD.