Game Skyrim Forum

I know this sounds dumb but i've totaly forgot what Canon means, could you lot remind me.

The accepted version of what the Fallout universe is. For example, Fallout 2 used some modern-day weaponry, this is generally regarded as not in keeping with the retro-futuristic style, so it's seen as an error, and as such is not canon (ie, those weapons don't actually exist in the Fallout universe).

Right, i get it, so Mothership Zeta is canon?

Well, since Bethesda now own the Fallout franchise, they have the final say on what is and isn't canon. Since MZ is being made by Bethesda, it is definitely canon. http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/Canon article over on TVTropes explains the concept of canon pretty well, as it applies to all forms of media.

At any rate, it's possbile that MZ will not be considered canon.

Why?

Well, if the general public despises MZ (just like with FO:BoS) then Bethesda will scrap mentions of it in later games and/or come out and say "we made a mistake; we're not considering MZ canon."

Canon - An outlet for annoying people who enjoy whining about stupid stuff and trolling forums.
Canon (2) - A time waster, as it distracts companies away from gameplay.
Cannon - A tube, usually of iron or brass, used to fire balls of lead or iron. (lol)

Perhaps you should leave the lore forum then, eh?

Canon is what we use to protect the world from your bad fanfiction.

Never meant it like that. I like lore, I just don't believe it should be a deciding factor in whether or not a game is great. (Trine is a great example, fun gameplay, generic story, but I don't hate it simply because of the story.)



I don't write fanfiction. Where did that even come from?

I don't think anyone here is arguing that lore is the most important thing in the game, but we do like our story-heavy RPGs to have depth to their worlds, and backstory, which equals lore.

I've always loved imaginary "universes"... I was a big Trek fan as a kid, mostly because I loved how they used the shows and movies to create and whole universe with politics, social issues and historic figures. Certain game series, namely The Elder Scrolls and Fallout, and more recently Assassin's Creed and Mass Effect, have the same thing going on.

The word canon, in the context you're refering to, is usually used for holy writing, such as the bible or koran. Many works of fiction will have a "canon", which separates it from things like fan fiction, and lets you know what is officialy part of the "world".

The essence can be boiled down to if its not either commercially or critically popular then it isn't canon.

Also on the topic on how important Canon is.

It is very important for a writer, while it can be constraining it also helps foster creativity in that you have a set amount of rules to work around and must be fresh and new but still maintain the world.

It can be bad in two ways, if your a slave to the canon your writing tends to be boring and repetitive so if canon is only stifling creativity and not encouraging it sometimes you have to break canon, however doing it in a creative and true- to the series way is excellent, ie the new star trek movie.

However just destroying the canon willy nilly not only weakens the suspension of disbelief it leads to a setting that has no theme or motif and this often in TV series is called jumping of the shark. Which if you didn't know was when the Fonz jumped a shark in Happy Days, signally that series had lost its austere (It was really being desperate to have new and fresh ideas) another more recent example was the new Indiana Jones.

Which, conincidentally, also involved aliens, like Mothership Zeta.

Which coincidentally where a major part of the 50's culture, Jesus, Fallout reuses old villains people complain Fallout makes new villains people complain.

And the examples I gave are not similar to MZ, the Fonz jumping the shark was outrageous and alien, Indiana Jones problem was that it was over the top and childish, the man survives nuclear blast in a FRIDGE and a monkey has the same hairstyle as his son.

So? Fallout is retrofuturistic post-apocalypse. Ignoring the post-apocalypse part and focusing on the aliens is just as jarring, if not more, as getting rid of the retro part.

Bethesda made MZ, they have the rights to Fallout.

MZ IS CANON.

I've read the above quotes and still don't have a clear answer to the original poster's question. I'm going to look it up in the dictionary.

People are complaining because Bethesda was lazy; they didn't make the aliens fit into the Fallout universe instead they just took them directly out of an old alien invasion comic or movie and plopped them into the setting without any real adjustments. When Interplay and Black Isle introduced a new 1950's element into the setting they made it logical; they gave whatever it was motivation, a back story. Mothership Zeta doesn't have any of this; the aliens are just there for the sake of being there... and that's generally called sloppy writing.



No one is saying that it isn't canon.

Canon is what parts of the games are "official" and should not be contradicted in the congoing continuity.

The MZ DLC is NOT canon! If that is the case, then why not just say that Dr. Who, Godzilla etc. are all canon too. The only things that are canon at the moment are the Classic Fallout's, parts of Fallout Tactics, Van Buren, and perhaps bits and pieces of Fallout 3(mind you that is debatable).

Well, it's the 50's future world nuked... aliens were big in the 50's... it's not a stretch to say the 50's world of tomorrow could include them.

I think it works better as a minor part of the game, but it doesn't really strike me as totally out of place like it does some older fans.

That said, I haven't played Zeta yet.

Having played through Mothership Zeta... and at a somewhat early level I might add (got abducted at lvl 4)... I actually think it fits in very well with the 50's future-world motif. I don't mind that it is lax on story, because to be honest, I don't care that much about the story of the aliens. From the get-go they're the stereotypical 50's style invader and collector. They pick up random crap, take it apart, and move along to the next thing. They're being left so openly vague strikes me as PARTICULARLY 50's ish in mentality... because it made for more excitement back then to have the aliens be these mysterious, terrifying, shallowly aggressive beings. They're the bad guys... and Uncle Sam comes in with the good guys to take them down.

As a sci-fi guy who actually 'watches' those old movies (usually laughing hysterically, these days)... it just comes across as a fun romp through what I could realistically imagine one of those movies to have been like.

Now, on the note of GAMEPLAY... eh... it kinda svcks that I get locked out of half the ship on the console... but... at least I know when I get my new computer set up and ready, I can fix that.

Still... to say it was out of place or non-canon... just strikes me as being a bit nitpicky. Overall it was descent, if somewhat disappointing at the end.

Things shouldn't be shoved into the setting just because they seem to fit; as I previously pointed out when Interplay and Black Isle introduced a new 50's element into the series they made sure it was adjusted to fit into the setting that they created. Mutants and the like were definitely added for the lulz, but Interplay and Black Isle made sure that there was a purpose and a back story behind them. Bethesda didn't give aliens a purpose or back story that worked in the context of Fallout; they just plopped these aliens into the setting and called it a day.

Sorry, bud, but MZ IS canon unless Bethesda says otherwise; or if Bethesda sells the rights and the new company says it isn't canon.

If I recall, I had a thread/poll regarding the cannonicy of FO3; the majority said that it was Canon, a minority said that FO3 was too different to be canon, and only 5 votes out of the 190+ votes said that it's not canon unless made by the origonal devs. Of course, I may need to run a new poll regarding MZ to see if it's not universally despised...

MZ is as canon as Fallout 1. the devs never outright stated it's non-canon, so it's canon.