Vivec's Fate

Post » Thu Dec 08, 2011 4:52 pm

I know that Almalexia and Sotha Sil were killed in Tribunal, but what about Vivec?
Is there any reference of him dying or disappearing anywhere? Or, for all we know, could he still be in Morrowind attempting to rebuild the nation (unlikely, as it was the people's lack of faith in him that caused the disaster)?

Thanks.
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Lily
 
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Post » Thu Dec 08, 2011 5:21 am

During Oblivion some people claim he was taking away by the Daedra... Which seems incredibly unlikely to me, somebody like him should be able to crush a Daedric army even without the Heart... Or at the very least run away.

If anything Vivec is either dead, because of the Nerevarine. Ran away to Akavir with the Nerevarine for god knows what reason, or there could be a dozen different other explanations. All we know is that he is definitely not in Morrowind anymore.
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Music Show
 
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Post » Thu Dec 08, 2011 3:36 pm

There's a rumor in Oblivion that he was kidnapped by daedra. Another possible explanation is that he zero-summed (in short, thought himself out of existence). There's also the claim that he was last seen during his Trial at Hogithum Hall in the Imperial City. Last but not least, he may have died at the hands of the Nerevarine, victim at last to Azura's vengeance.

It's really up to the player (you) to decide what happened to him. The Elder Scrolls are good like that.

EDIT: This is too good to avoid linking at every relevant opportunity: http://www.imperial-library.info/content/trial-vivec
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Russell Davies
 
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Post » Thu Dec 08, 2011 4:15 am

EDIT: This is too good to avoid linking at every relevant opportunity: http://www.imperial-library.info/content/trial-vivec

So Vivec made it so that Azura can't take physical form on Mundus? When does this take place, because she appears at the end of Morrowind and Tribunal. Sorryif that's completly wrong, I'm not too good at understanding writing like that.
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kelly thomson
 
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Post » Thu Dec 08, 2011 10:09 am

The events of the Trial don't really have any lasting significance. Basically, Vivec banishes Azura to the waters of Oblivion, which is probably the biggest middle finger you could ever give a Daedric Lord like Azura. You're basically consigning them to an 'eon' of pain and torment in the waters of Oblivion. Battlespire's Hero did the same thing to Mehrunes Dagon, as did Martin in Oblivion. But, as you know, Azura was already back a few years later, involving herself with the affairs of mortals, as you can do a quest for her in Oblivion. The Trial happens during the interlude between Morrowind and Oblivion, which is a grand total of five years or so. Other than the Oblivion rumor, the trial is the last we ever hear of Vivec.
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Sun of Sammy
 
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Post » Thu Dec 08, 2011 3:32 am

But we don't see Azura take a physical form on Mundus after this event, so is it possible that now she can't, wheras Mehrunes Dagon obviously could?
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Pixie
 
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Post » Thu Dec 08, 2011 9:32 am

So Vivec made it so that Azura can't take physical form on Mundus? When does this take place, because she appears at the end of Morrowind and Tribunal. Sorryif that's completly wrong, I'm not too good at understanding writing like that.


The trial, isn't actualy Canon... So I don't know if it really took place, but it was an interesting read. This took place after the events of Tribunal and thus Morrowind, after the Nerevarine had already dissapeared.
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Jordyn Youngman
 
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Post » Thu Dec 08, 2011 7:33 pm

I suppose its possible, but probably unlikely. Mehrunes Dagon, after all, was banished from Tamriel to the Waters by Sotha Sil and Almalexia in the First Era, but that didn't prevent him from returning at the end of the Third Era to be banished once more by Martin. The Daedra rebound from setbacks like these fairly quickly. Its more likely that Azura simply learned the lesson Dagon didn't: Don't materialize in Tamriel unless you want to risk being banished.
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Roddy
 
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Post » Thu Dec 08, 2011 5:14 pm

Missing. Vivec zero-summing is a non-possibility, he's already "residing in the tower", so to speak.

Even if the Nerevarine decided to kill Vehk during the events of Morrowind, Vivec would only die if he wanted to. That is to say his soul would only get recycled into the dreamsleeve if he wanted to. It's clear from the sermons that Vivec wanted the Nerevarine to kill him, that's certain. But whether that means that Vivec wanted to completely die off is another matter. I don't believe that Vivec was killed however. According to the Love Letter from the Fifth Era, Vivec is still around long after the fourth era has ended.
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Anna Beattie
 
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Post » Thu Dec 08, 2011 10:02 am

Missing. Vivec zero-summing is a non-possibility, he's already "residing in the tower", so to speak.

Even if the Nerevarine decided to kill Vehk during the events of Morrowind, Vivec would only die if he wanted to. That is to say his soul would only get recycled into the dreamsleeve if he wanted to. It's clear from the sermons that Vivec wanted the Nerevarine to kill him, that's certain. But whether that means that Vivec wanted to completely die off is another matter. I don't believe that Vivec was killed however. According to the Love Letter from the Fifth Era, Vivec is still around long after the fourth era has ended.


He cannot be alive anymore. Either he was killed during the events of Morrowind or his power faded and dead then. The power that made him and the other gods was waning when Dagoth Ur was growing in power, and then that source was destroyed. The fact the ministry of truth crashed into Vivec and destroyed the city alone shows that Vivec's power was gone. Either he simply became mortal again or he was dead.
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Ludivine Poussineau
 
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Post » Thu Dec 08, 2011 3:13 pm

The trial, isn't actualy Canon... So I don't know if it really took place, but it was an interesting read. This took place after the events of Tribunal and thus Morrowind, after the Nerevarine had already dissapeared.


As far as I am aware it is canon, as I seem to remember there is a book in Oblivion that says Azura's realm is now obscured to mortals and she no longer answers summons.

Vehk himself is destined to return, the loveletter speaks of him.
He is not powerless, he achieved CHIM and no longer requires the heart.
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Cccurly
 
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Post » Thu Dec 08, 2011 12:24 pm

He cannot be alive anymore. Either he was killed during the events of Morrowind or his power faded and dead then. The power that made him and the other gods was waning when Dagoth Ur was growing in power, and then that source was destroyed. The fact the ministry of truth crashed into Vivec and destroyed the city alone shows that Vivec's power was gone. Either he simply became mortal again or he was dead.

Someone who has achieved CHIM will only have his powers "faded and dead" if he chooses to, and likewise he can come back whenever he wants to. Vivec isn't limited to his connection to the heart. It's irrelevant whether the Nerevarine or anyone else "killed" him or not.
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Ross Thomas
 
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Post » Thu Dec 08, 2011 10:45 am

Excuse my utter stupidity, but..

What's a CHIM?
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Lavender Brown
 
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Post » Thu Dec 08, 2011 11:42 am

Excuse my utter stupidity, but..

What's a CHIM?

On this forum, CHIM is to open a can of worms :laugh:

I guess it might be best to read the sources to begin with. "Vehk's Teaching", the 36 Sermons, "Trial of Azura" and so on.
The basics is that you realize the world is not real (only someone else's imagination) and then love yourself and the world so much that you stay you even with this overwhelming knowledge.
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Michael Russ
 
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Post » Thu Dec 08, 2011 9:45 am

Uh huh...The lore gets crazier and crazier the more I look into it, it seems. Thanks.
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kitten maciver
 
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Post » Thu Dec 08, 2011 2:23 pm

Uh huh...The lore gets crazier and crazier the more I look into it, it seems. Thanks.

Just remembered this link as well: http://fallingawkwardly.wordpress.com/2010/10/25/the-metaphysics-of-morrowind-part-3/
Well thought out and explains the concept well (though as I implied with the "can of worms" bit, no doubt someone will say this is wrong <_< ).
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Lawrence Armijo
 
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Post » Thu Dec 08, 2011 6:21 am

On this forum, CHIM is to open a can of worms :laugh:

I guess it might be best to read the sources to begin with. "Vehk's Teaching", the 36 Sermons, "Trial of Azura" and so on.
The basics is that you realize the world is not real (only someone else's imagination) and then love yourself and the world so much that you stay you even with this overwhelming knowledge.


A bit like being a Bodhisattva in Buddhism, then?
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DeeD
 
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Post » Thu Dec 08, 2011 5:51 pm

A bit like being a Bodhisattva in Buddhism, then?

Probably further than that, like becoming a Buddha. TES lore has gleaned many things from eastern religions.
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Darrell Fawcett
 
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Post » Thu Dec 08, 2011 6:53 am

Just remembered this link as well: http://fallingawkwardly.wordpress.com/2010/10/25/the-metaphysics-of-morrowind-part-3/
Well thought out and explains the concept well (though as I implied with the "can of worms" bit, no doubt someone will say this is wrong <_< ).


That page makes more than a few assumutions. The others in the Tribunial are dead, and so is Vivec. If he's not, he's pretty low for letting the Ministry of Truth drop on his city and cause Choas for the Dunmer; especially after they worshiped him as a god.

I still say he and others in the Tribunial murdered Nerevar, and they all got what they deserved.
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Maria Garcia
 
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Post » Thu Dec 08, 2011 4:19 pm

That page makes more than a few assumutions. The others in the Tribunial are dead, and so is Vivec. If he's not, he's pretty low for letting the Ministry of Truth drop on his city and cause Choas for the Dunmer; especially after they worshiped him as a god.

I still say he and others in the Tribunial murdered Nerevar, and they all got what they deserved.


Vehk the Mortal definitely killed Nerevar. Vehk the God did not.

He's http://www.imperial-library.info/content/loveletter-fifth-era-true-purpose-tamriel either. They still talk to him in the fifth era.
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Marina Leigh
 
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Post » Thu Dec 08, 2011 9:23 am

Would he still be worshiped by the dunmer even if his ultimate fate is unknown ?
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Joanne Crump
 
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Post » Thu Dec 08, 2011 5:15 am

That page makes more than a few assumutions. The others in the Tribunial are dead, and so is Vivec. If he's not, he's pretty low for letting the Ministry of Truth drop on his city and cause Choas for the Dunmer; especially after they worshiped him as a god.

He's not a nice guy. He's a weird CHIM thingy.
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Dawn Porter
 
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Post » Thu Dec 08, 2011 7:39 am

That page makes more than a few assumutions. The others in the Tribunial are dead, and so is Vivec. If he's not, he's pretty low for letting the Ministry of Truth drop on his city and cause Choas for the Dunmer; especially after they worshiped him as a god.

I still say he and others in the Tribunial murdered Nerevar, and they all got what they deserved.


Its not his fault they lost faith in him is it? No faith/belief = No power for Vivec.
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Rachyroo
 
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Post » Thu Dec 08, 2011 7:42 pm

That page makes more than a few assumutions. The others in the Tribunial are dead, and so is Vivec. If he's not, he's pretty low for letting the Ministry of Truth drop on his city and cause Choas for the Dunmer; especially after they worshiped him as a god.

I still say he and others in the Tribunial murdered Nerevar, and they all got what they deserved.

His motives are outside what people would define as good or evil. Vivec himself has confessed that his mortal self killed Nerevar, no one disputes that. The ministry fell because people lost faith in him; he could have saved it for sure, but as I said, CHIM is outside subjective definitions such as good and evil.
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Joey Avelar
 
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Post » Thu Dec 08, 2011 4:29 am

His motives are outside what people would define as good or evil. Vivec himself has confessed that his mortal self killed Nerevar, no one disputes that. The ministry fell because people lost faith in him; he could have saved it for sure, but as I said, CHIM is outside subjective definitions such as good and evil.


Spoiler
what about its ingenium not getting that sul's old ladys soul

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Stephy Beck
 
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